Future of Office for Mac

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

Hi! Been away from forum for a long time. Dealing with death of my dad
and helping my mother to carry on without him, and other business of life.

This for the MVP's

What is your thoughts as to the possibility of Office Mac continuing
either before or after 5 year contract deal with Apple. Now That Mac's
with Intel processors could run windows at will.

I think it was bone headed of Jobs to allow it and it spells the down
fall of the Mac OS. Why should Companies, develop for the Mac OS when
with some additional programing A Mac can run a widows version of the
same program.

What needs to happen instead is create one universal program that runs
on any Platform and have all the features of all the platforms. Now Jobs
has spelled the actual destruction of the Mac Platform.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

What is your thoughts as to the possibility of Office Mac continuing
either before or after 5 year contract deal with Apple. Now That Mac's
with Intel processors could run windows at will.

Apple wants to attract WIndows users who were considering to switch.
With dual boot, it might win them over.
Honestly, even if I can run Windows on my Mac, do you really think I
will stop using MacOS X ?? If that were the case, everybody would have
bought a PC box and stopped using MacOS X.I'm not too worried: MacOS X
will continue its development and along with it all application already
present on this platform (including Office).
Just a personal opinion/feeling though,


Corentin

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

With the greatest respect Phillip, you have the wrong end of the stick.
It does not matter that the new Macs run on Intel processors.
What matters is that they run OS X (as well as Windows if you allow
Boot Camp or Parallels to blight your working day)
Any application sits on top of an operating system which provides the
services it needs.

Nahhh, you are forgetting Java apps :-> But would yo really want Office
to be entirely re-written to run in Java?? :-D


Corentin

 

[Elliott Roper]

Nahhh, you are forgetting Java apps :-> But would yo really want Office
to be entirely re-written to run in Java?? :-D

Heh!
Not really. NeoOffice is Java? You are still stuck with the OS it is
running on except when you are in the sandbox. It does not really
change anything much.

 

[Clive Huggan]

Nahhh, you are forgetting Java apps :-> But would yo really want Office
to be entirely re-written to run in Java?? :-D


Corentin

Welcome back, Phillip. Good to see you again. ;-)

And what an opener you chose!

Clive Huggan
============

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

Heh!
Not really. NeoOffice is Java? You are still stuck with the OS it is
running on except when you are in the sandbox. It does not really
change anything much.

NeoOffice needs specific compilations for each platform (plus additional
tricks). That's not quite the same as Java apps that can run directly on
different platforms (through the respective virtual machines).


Corentin

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Actually, MacBU Chief Roz Ho did announce another five-year commitment (not
contract) on stage with Steve Jobs at MacWorld earlier this year. There
were a lot of sighs at MacBU after that to the effect of: What do you want
to bet that rumors will now start flying that once the five years are up,
that's it for Mac Office!

IOW, you can't win. If you announce a commitment with any kind of time
limit attached, people will instantly question your post-commitment
commitment. And you just did that, Philip .

As far as I know, MSFT's commitment to Mac Office is firm for the
foreseeable future but they would be foolish to say anything like: We will
support the Mac platform till the end of time. Who knows what the future
may hold?

Anyway, welcome back, Philip. Nice to see you again .

Beth

 

[Jim Gordon]

Hi Phillip,

I'm glad you asked. It is always fun to guess the future and then live
long enough to see whether or not my guesses are correct.

My guess is that as long as Microsoft makes money selling Mac Office
that the product's life is assured.

If there was one major application that is notably different on the Mac
compared to Windows I think that it is Microsoft Office. Personally I
think the user interface of Mac Office is far superior than its Windows
counterpart. Many of the other major applications seem to try to make
Mac and Windows versions as much alike as possible. Microsoft learned
that making applications that are alike is a catastrophe when it comes
to Mac customer satisfaction (Word 6, Excel 5, PowerPoint 4). OpenOffice
has not learned this lesson from Microsoft's very public embarrassment.

Mac Word's Data Merge is SO superior to the Windows version I can't
imagine anyone who knows the difference specifying the Windows version
over Mac Word. Mac PowerPoint's Presenter Tools and graphic special
effects are just not in Windows Office or NeoOffice or OpenOffice.
Excel's database capabilities are weak with only a partial
implementation of MS Query. MS Access is a no-show. But there is
progress being made on the MS Query front as independent developers have
recently created ODBC drivers. I'm hoping that once the big release of
the next version of Office has passed that MacBU will put some effort
into shoring up MS Query. As for programmability, in Office 2004 better
AppleScript support was included across the board. Try using AppleScript
in OpenOffice, NeoOffice or whatever else you can find. Microsoft is
bringing C# to the Mac - a major bit of news developer-wise.

As for running Windows on the Mac... I just purchased Parallels and
installed Win XP Pro and Office 2003. All applications in Office 2003
seem clunky and awkward to use. The task pane is aptly named - a pain.
Even though they run lightning fast on a CoreDuo they are only faster,
not better.

So for most people who switch from Windows to MacOS, Mac Office offers a
better value for the same money and that's always a good sign of a
product that will succeed. Making office the same on both platforms
would be a marketing mistake that Microsoft will hopefully not repeat.

-Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

 

[Clive Huggan]

Printed; curled up in a Pringles tube; cement being trowelled over the hole
in the wall right now, Jim...

Trouble is, how long do you reckon I have to leave the time capsule?

Cheers,
Clive
=====

 

[Peter Jamieson]

Mac Word's Data Merge is SO superior to the Windows version I can't

imagine anyone who knows the difference specifying the Windows version
over Mac Word.

From the UI point of view, maybe, and the Mac version may well be better at
large mailings - I do not know, but the connectivity is compartively poor
(try connecting to Unicode data of any kind held outside Word - even Unicode
data in Excel is not currently transferred) and in every other respect it is
at best identical.

Peter Jamieson

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

Welcome back, Phillip. Good to see you again. ;-)

And what an opener you chose!

Clive Huggan
============

I thought I'd come back with a bang. ;-)

But I did ask the question all seriousness.

One of the respondents noted "the Five Year agreement" has long since
passed. The original one has passed. I am talking about the one entered
into at the last Mac World, here someone committed MS to supporting the
Mac Platform for the next five years. (This was when Jobs announced to
PowerPC to Intel switch). It also at the same exact time That all R&D
and support for Windows Media Player for Mac would cease immediately (in
MacAddict/MacWorld). Fortunately a Company called flip4mac has come to
the rescue, but is hamstrung by the fact they can't handle any DRM Media
Player movies/audio.

I'd like your thoughts on the subject.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

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<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

Actually, MacBU Chief Roz Ho did announce another five-year commitment (not
contract) on stage with Steve Jobs at MacWorld earlier this year. There
were a lot of sighs at MacBU after that to the effect of: What do you want
to bet that rumors will now start flying that once the five years are up,
that's it for Mac Office!

IOW, you can't win. If you announce a commitment with any kind of time
limit attached, people will instantly question your post-commitment
commitment. And you just did that, Philip .

As far as I know, MSFT's commitment to Mac Office is firm for the
foreseeable future but they would be foolish to say anything like: We will
support the Mac platform till the end of time. Who knows what the future
may hold?

Anyway, welcome back, Philip. Nice to see you again .

Beth

They would have eased matters by simply saying we will continue to
support the Mac Platform and added no particular Time frame. That way
they are not pinned down to forever.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

I did not necessarily mean they had to look the same. what I was talking
about was Have one CD. Put in what ever machine, install ever how
installed and it would simply open in the native version of that
computer, But would have "all the Good feature sets, of all the
platforms for example the PDFMaker added by adobe that allows you to
create PDF's. In the PC version all web-links, and mailto: and such are
appropriately color coated, and are live when PDFMaker is used to create
a PDF. In the Mac version you can still create a PDF but all of the
links are de-colored, and You have to add them. Adobe says That certain
hooks in the PC version to allow this are not in the mac version, on
purpose.

Things like that stuff within the PC version that are deliberately
left. As Mac users we feel like "Second Class" citizens.

Hi Phillip,

I'm glad you asked. It is always fun to guess the future and then live
long enough to see whether or not my guesses are correct.

My guess is that as long as Microsoft makes money selling Mac Office
that the product's life is assured.

If there was one major application that is notably different on the Mac
compared to Windows I think that it is Microsoft Office. Personally I
think the user interface of Mac Office is far superior than its Windows
counterpart. Many of the other major applications seem to try to make
Mac and Windows versions as much alike as possible. Microsoft learned
that making applications that are alike is a catastrophe when it comes
to Mac customer satisfaction (Word 6, Excel 5, PowerPoint 4). OpenOffice
has not learned this lesson from Microsoft's very public embarrassment.

Mac Word's Data Merge is SO superior to the Windows version I can't
imagine anyone who knows the difference specifying the Windows version
over Mac Word. Mac PowerPoint's Presenter Tools and graphic special
effects are just not in Windows Office or NeoOffice or OpenOffice.
Excel's database capabilities are weak with only a partial
implementation of MS Query. MS Access is a no-show. But there is
progress being made on the MS Query front as independent developers have
recently created ODBC drivers. I'm hoping that once the big release of
the next version of Office has passed that MacBU will put some effort
into shoring up MS Query. As for programmability, in Office 2004 better
AppleScript support was included across the board. Try using AppleScript
in OpenOffice, NeoOffice or whatever else you can find. Microsoft is
bringing C# to the Mac - a major bit of news developer-wise.

As for running Windows on the Mac... I just purchased Parallels and
installed Win XP Pro and Office 2003. All applications in Office 2003
seem clunky and awkward to use. The task pane is aptly named - a pain.
Even though they run lightning fast on a CoreDuo they are only faster,
not better.

So for most people who switch from Windows to MacOS, Mac Office offers a
better value for the same money and that's always a good sign of a
product that will succeed. Making office the same on both platforms
would be a marketing mistake that Microsoft will hopefully not repeat.

-Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Come on, Phillip!

If they said "We will continue to support the Mac platform," people would
immediately ask, "For how long?" If they didn't respond to that, people
would think they weren't serious. If they said something like, "For the
foreseeable future," people would think they were being coy or disingenuous
or both. They gave the best response they could.

Beth

 

[Chris Ridd]

They would have eased matters by simply saying we will continue to
support the Mac Platform and added no particular Time frame. That way
they are not pinned down to forever.

No, because then people would note they didn't say how long, and thus
"clearly" they were planning to abandon ship.

I'm not sure they could have said *anything* to stop the rumours!

Cheers,

Chris

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

Adobe says That certain
hooks in the PC version to allow this are not in the mac version, on
purpose.

On purpose?? Nah... I would say that Office for Windows supports a
version of VBA that's much more advanced than the Mac version. Adobe is
most probably using Windows-only VBA for its plug-in.

Corentin

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

Fortunately a Company called flip4mac has come to
the rescue, but is hamstrung by the fact they can't handle any DRM Media
Player movies/audio.

Well, this is a tricky point... It's fortunate, because Flip4Mac (now)
has tremendously better support for WMV and WMA than WMP ever had.
It's very unfortunate, because it prbably means that MS will simply drop
the development of WMP for Maac - and only they have the possibility to
support DRM-protected Windows Media content. Unless they allow/licence
FLip4Mac for that, that's the end of any hope for us to ever play
anything protected with the MS DRM over version 1.3. Not so good...

On the other hand, this is not really related to the MacBU, they have
never had the app in their hands. It was (poorly) ported in the past by
some people of the Windows WMP team.

Corentin

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

Well, this is a tricky point... It's fortunate, because Flip4Mac (now)
has tremendously better support for WMV and WMA than WMP ever had.
It's very unfortunate, because it prbably means that MS will simply drop
the development of WMP for Maac - and only they have the possibility to
support DRM-protected Windows Media content. Unless they allow/licence
FLip4Mac for that, that's the end of any hope for us to ever play
anything protected with the MS DRM over version 1.3. Not so good...

On the other hand, this is not really related to the MacBU, they have
never had the app in their hands. It was (poorly) ported in the past by
some people of the Windows WMP team.

Corentin

This was only brought into the mix because with things MS the right hand
giveth, while the left hand taketh away. :-(. Kind of like I'll give you
a good bear hug and stab you .... (fill in the dots) at the same time.
Now it means, Unless DRM can be licensed, People that now use WMA, WMV
content to "all" computer users will have to make a simultaneous
QuickTime version as well. They will like rethink their support of Mac
and decide to drop it.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Phillip:

Well, it's a wonderful troll that will undoubtedly increase the traffic on
this newsgroup for quite a while

Here's my completely uninformed two cents worth:

* There will be an alternative operating system to Windows still around in
50 years. In 50n years, Windows may *be* the alternative...

* Both the PC and the Mac will fit in your shirt pocket well before then.

* Keyboards will probably be little used, even if they don't disappear
entirely.

* The need for a word processor will go away, quite soon now.

* Text-handling ability will become so ubiquitous it will simply be
built-in to the front ends of the software that "use" the text. And that's
where the remnants of Microsoft Office will end up: as a set of callable
modules in something that looks suspiciously like your web browser.

* The contents of your shirt pocket will come in two flavours: beige with
square corners, and white with rounded corners. Both will have a heads-up
display, earphones, and cameras.

* And Microsoft will still be making software for both

Cheers

Hi! Been away from forum for a long time. Dealing with death of my dad
and helping my mother to carry on without him, and other business of life.

This for the MVP's

What is your thoughts as to the possibility of Office Mac continuing
either before or after 5 year contract deal with Apple. Now That Mac's
with Intel processors could run windows at will.

I think it was bone headed of Jobs to allow it and it spells the down
fall of the Mac OS. Why should Companies, develop for the Mac OS when
with some additional programing A Mac can run a widows version of the
same program.

What needs to happen instead is create one universal program that runs
on any Platform and have all the features of all the platforms. Now Jobs
has spelled the actual destruction of the Mac Platform.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Philip:

Oh, we have that now

The Windows and Mac versions of Virtual PC install from the same DVD

Cheers

I did not necessarily mean they had to look the same. what I was talking
about was Have one CD. Put in what ever machine, install ever how
installed and it would simply open in the native version of that
computer, But would have "all the Good feature sets, of all the
platforms for example the PDFMaker added by adobe that allows you to
create PDF's. In the PC version all web-links, and mailto: and such are
appropriately color coated, and are live when PDFMaker is used to create
a PDF. In the Mac version you can still create a PDF but all of the
links are de-colored, and You have to add them. Adobe says That certain
hooks in the PC version to allow this are not in the mac version, on
purpose.

Things like that stuff within the PC version that are deliberately
left. As Mac users we feel like "Second Class" citizens.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410