gathering endnotes at end of doc

[Sarah]

Hi,

I am trying to format a book that I've written and I'm having
difficulty with endnotes. the book has 6 chapters, each saved under
its own file name. My editor wants me to gather all the endnotes at
the end of the book rather than at the end of each chapter. Is there
something I can do within each chapter/file to set it up so that all
the endnotes print at the end in continuous numerical order, other
than saving all the chapters together as one giant file?

Thanks.

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

Not really. If you are completely done editing, you could convert the
numbers to text (freezing them in place) and then copy and paste them to
where you want. Some publishing companies prefer not to have Word
autonumbering the footnotes anyhow, but presumably your editor would have
told you if this was the case.

Why not combine it into one giant file? Word can handle very long files, so
there is rarely a good reason to keep chapters in separate files. Use Insert
| File into a new doc, that'll be easiest and keep your original files
untouched. Especially if you want all the endnotes in one sequence, not
restarting per chapter, much easier to combine the chapters than set the
starting number manually. Use Insert | Footnote, Format, Options to set the
endnotes to end of doc and not to restart. You might not even need section
breaks between chapters, depending on what you are doing with the
headers/footers.

DM

 

[Ronald Florence]

Why not combine it into one giant file? Word can handle very long files, so
there is rarely a good reason to keep chapters in separate files.

Separate files for each chapter are too convenient, manageable, and safe
to give up. What I'm doing (as a recent MS-Word user after writing
many books with LaTeX and/or LyX) is to create a file for the book,
which includes links for the individual chapter files. When you edit an
individual chapter file the changes appear in the book file as soon as
you update the links, the endnotes all come out at the end if the
manuscript is printed or saved as a .pdf, yet it is possible to submit
the final manuscript as one chapter per file, which is the way some book
designers want the submission.

(I write "MS-Word user" rather than "convert" because the switch was not
voluntary. I find MS-Word crude in output, unreliable, and horribly
bloated compared with typesetting engines like LaTeX or a GUI like LyX.
Unfortunately, the world of trade publishing insists on submissions in
the MS-Word format. So I switched rather than starve. I'm learning to
survive MS-Word.)

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

Separate files for each chapter are too convenient, manageable, and safe
to give up. What I'm doing (as a recent MS-Word user after writing
many books with LaTeX and/or LyX) is to create a file for the book,
which includes links for the individual chapter files.

Well, I certainly write and edit in individual files but it sounds like she
is done writing. But thanks for the better answer--Sarah, you can insert
each chapter into a new doc as an IncludeText field. When you do Insert |
File, check the box for "link to file" in the dialog. Just be sure to open
up the combined doc, select all, and press F9 to update the fields before
sending it out or printing it, if you continue to edit the chapter files.
Similar formatting instructions as in my previous message.

DM

 

[Sarah]

Thanks so much to you both for the help. I hate to be a pain but if I
may just make sure I understand:

If I do the "inset/link to file" thing, I can continue editting each
individual chapter (in its own little file) and the larger file will
"know" about changes because I'm going to go into the larger file
after editting and press F9 (at the end, before I'm about to send it
off)?

-- does this plan affect the endnote numbering (I was in error
yesterday -- it does need to restart with each new chapter)? I am
assuming I just have to tell it set each chapter to "restart" in the
footnote options box?

-- how do i separate each chapter's endnotes in the larger file? do i
just go in and manually put in "Chapter whatever" at the top and a few
hard returns at the bottom within the smaller files?

-- i can't save this as a PDF as Ronald suggested (must be sent in
word) so will this plan still work?

Again, many thanks.

 

[Ronald Florence]

If I do the "inset/link to file" thing, I can continue editting each
individual chapter (in its own little file) and the larger file will
"know" about changes because I'm going to go into the larger file
after editting and press F9 (at the end, before I'm about to send it
off)?

Yes. And if you use exposé, you can use Command-Option-Shift-U to
update the fields instead of F9.

-- does this plan affect the endnote numbering (I was in error
yesterday -- it does need to restart with each new chapter)? I am
assuming I just have to tell it set each chapter to "restart" in the
footnote options box?

If you set Word to restart endnote numbering for each chapter the
endnotes will restart for each chapter in the assembled book.

-- how do i separate each chapter's endnotes in the larger file? do i
just go in and manually put in "Chapter whatever" at the top and a few
hard returns at the bottom within the smaller files?

I insert an endnote heading in each chapter after the endnote separator
and before the actual endnotes. These headings are picked up in the
book in the right place. Assuming you're writing with styles, you don't
want or need anything like "a few hard returns"; just put whatever
spacing you want into the appropriate style for the endnote separator
and the endnote heading.

-- i can't save this as a PDF as Ronald suggested (must be sent in
word) so will this plan still work?

I haven't submitted a manuscript yet from this method, but I assume that
you will need to submit the book file and the individual chapter files
together. A Unix utility like tar or a PC program like zip could
package them for your publisher. I believe both are included in MacOSX.

Let us know how it works.

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

I insert an endnote heading in each chapter after the endnote separator
and before the actual endnotes. These headings are picked up in the
book in the right place. Assuming you're writing with styles, you don't
want or need anything like "a few hard returns"; just put whatever
spacing you want into the appropriate style for the endnote separator
and the endnote heading.

Ronald, when you say "picked up in the book in the right place", you mean
they show up interspersed with the endnote text, right? Have you figured
out how to get a Word TOC to pick up such headings as "Notes to Chapter 3"
that are all surrounded by endnotes, perchance?

I haven't submitted a manuscript yet from this method, but I assume that
you will need to submit the book file and the individual chapter files
together. A Unix utility like tar or a PC program like zip could
package them for your publisher. I believe both are included in MacOSX.

Sarah, one thing you could do, just before sending, is to take your combined
document, update fields, do a Save As "Book Submitted [Date]", then select
all and hit apple-shift-F9. That commands unlinks the fields and makes them
regular text, so you don't have to worry about sending multiple files. Then
you can still edit your chapter files, and still update your combined file,
and have a frozen copy of what you sent off the publisher on X date. (You
also don't have to worry about the publisher not understanding what's going
on with your doc, b/c they will get a doc just like any other).

Only if you use Expose, I am not sure if F9 will cooperate in that command
either. (Ronald?). The command is called Unlink Fields (under all
commands) if you need to use Tools | Customize to assign a different
shortcut or drag the command to a toolbar to access it.

Let us know how it works.

Please do. Best of luck, and congrats on the near-end of the book process!

DM

 

[Ronald Florence]

Ronald, when you say "picked up in the book in the right place", you mean
they show up interspersed with the endnote text, right? Have you figured
out how to get a Word TOC to pick up such headings as "Notes to Chapter 3"
that are all surrounded by endnotes, perchance?

Yes, they intersperse correctly as endnote subtitles. I haven't tried
putting the endnote subtitles in the ToC -- my publishers don't ask for
that and will ultimately supplement the subtitles in the endnotes with
the relevant page range in the text. I used heading 2 for the endnote
subtitles, so I wonder if you couldn't just setup the Word ToC to pick
up heading 2 as well as the heading 1 items that are used for the start
of each chapter.

Sarah, one thing you could do, just before sending, is to take your combined
document, update fields, do a Save As "Book Submitted [Date]", then select
all and hit apple-shift-F9. [...]
Only if you use Expose, I am not sure if F9 will cooperate in that command
either. (Ronald?).

Freezing a submission with date is a very good idea. I think Command-6
should work for unlinking fields if you are using exposé.

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

Yes, they intersperse correctly as endnote subtitles. I haven't tried
putting the endnote subtitles in the ToC -- my publishers don't ask for
that and will ultimately supplement the subtitles in the endnotes with
the relevant page range in the text. I used heading 2 for the endnote
subtitles, so I wonder if you couldn't just setup the Word ToC to pick
up heading 2 as well as the heading 1 items that are used for the start
of each chapter.

Thanks, just checking out of curiosity.....last I tested, I couldn't get a
Word TOC to recognize heading styles that are typed within "endnote space"
(which makes sense, you're more or less typing within a field...) so on
first read I was thinking maybe you had found the answer. Nor will a
StyleRef field in the header pick up Notes to Chapter 2, Notes to Chapter 3,
if typed within "endnote space"--that would actually be more useful than
having the subheadings in the TOC, at the level of sharing a nearly-complete
manuscript not yet in proofs. But I'd say few people are in a situation
where such a feature would even be really useful, much less cause a problem.

Thanks,
Dayo

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

If you set Word to restart endnote numbering for each chapter the
endnotes will restart for each chapter in the assembled book.

Oops, a PS to Sarah. You will need to insert a section break (next page)
between each chapter in the combined file, to get endnotes to restart for
each chapter. In the combined file, you will probably have to turn off
"same as previous" on the header/footer toolbar to get independent footers
for each section, unless you use styles, and *might* also need to redo them.

If you plan on writing more books, and don't know what styles and templates
are, post back for some links on using Word to its full extent. An
investment of time in learning Word can reduce some frustration later.

DM

 

[Sarah]

Oops, a PS to Sarah...

If you plan on writing more books, and don't know what styles and templates
are, post back for some links on using Word to its full extent. An
investment of time in learning Word can reduce some frustration later.

I think that finishing up these last bits with this book may actually
deter me from writing anymore! Seriously, you've both been very
helpful, thanks. Some of it's out of my league (what's expose?) but I
think I can manage. Although I do have one more question (sorry!) --
what about pagination? Or will that automatically just work in the big
file?

SR

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

I think that finishing up these last bits with this book may actually
deter me from writing anymore! Seriously, you've both been very
helpful, thanks. Some of it's out of my league (what's expose?) but I
think I can manage. Although I do have one more question (sorry!) --
what about pagination? Or will that automatically just work in the big
file?

Click on View | Headers and Footers and see if there is a page number there.
Not sure whether IncludeText fields bring over headers and footers. If not,
just click the # on the header/footer toolbar to insert it where desired,
and if you haven't unlinked your sections that will propagate it through the
entire document.

Exposé is a feature in OS X--maybe you are not in OS X yet?

Dayo

 

[Stephen Fox]

Sarah,

Here's what I did to solve this problem:

1. I eliminated all footnote numbers in the text of each chapter
(don't do this until you have them safely tucked away somewhere).
2. In the footnote summary (endnotes) at the end of the book, I
introduced each note with a phrase rather than a number (combining
numbers for all your chapters leads in the end to notes with large
numbers: note 300, or 400, for example).
3. Divide your endnotes into chapters to help readers.
4. You can also use distinct headers for each page of your endnotes,
indicating the range of pages covered by the notes on that page (sorry
if this sounds a little convoluted).

I'd be happy to send you (privately) some sample pages from my book so
you can see the examples explained above.

Steve

 

[Sarah]

Hi again, and thanks to all for the additional information. I should
be okay...

Stephen if you wouldn't mind sending me the samples I'd be grateful --
(e-mail address removed). I am hopeful that the press will look
after the difficult bits and I just have have to get the endnotes to
the back somehow but it can't hurt for me to take a look at your
samples.

As for expose -- I've only seen the light and switched to Mac last
year so I do have OS X but "only" 10.2.8 -- I don't think expose
(whatever that is!) is in here anywhere.

Many thanks, again.
sr

 

[Sarah]

Hi,
Just to let you know how things turned out: Well, I tried creating the
giant file with the "link to file" thing etc., and it worked great for
the first two chapter files I inserted. But then when I continued and
added in the remaining chapters the formatting went totally wonky
(fonts, indents, spacing, etc.) I'd fix one thing and then something
else would go wrong. It was endless. After more than an hour of this
I gave up and did the endnotes manually (cut and paste into a separate
file). The publisher would prefer separate files anyway so it should
be fine.

Any ideas why this happened?

s

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

Yeah, afraid so....
Start here:
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/styles/FormatOfTextChanges.html

DM

 

[Stephen Fox]

Sarah,

I sent you the endnote file I promised, but got notification yesterday
that my message was "undeliverable" to your address:
(e-mail address removed). I'll try again....

Steve