Getting Annoyed

[JamesJ]

Am I the only one who is have problems saving a popup/model form's size in
ac 2007???
I need to switch my db to Overlapping forms in order to make any changes to
the
size to begin with. Then even if I drag the bottom and right borders so that
the form is a
small square in the middle of the screen and click the save in the office
menu the form actually gets larger.
At times it is even saves so large the left side is off the screen. When I
change the Form width
and move oto another property in the property sheet it reverts back to the
original And no there are
no controls far to the right. I even created a new form that has no controls
and the same problems happen.
Is it just me or are others having this problem? I have the the Resize to
yes.

James

 

[Albert D. Kallal]

I need to switch my db to Overlapping forms in order to make any changes
to the
size to begin with.

correct. if you use tabbed forms, then your forms will be the size your
"users" choose. With so many different sized monitors, this is a potential
good choice. Note that with the new anchored controls, those controls will
now actually expand/contract based on the users screen size (this is new
feature for 2007). So, we now have the ability to have controls grow or
shrink like .net developers have. This means for larger monitors we can
display more data on a screen.

However, in your case, we are NOT using tabbed view, but overlapping
windows.

That being the case, then set in the properties sheet

auto-resize to no.

(resize = yes will mess with your form size).

I also suggest you consider to re-size the form in VIEW mode. Size the form
to exactly how you want, and then hit ctrl-s to save. If at this point your
form is the right size and you DO NOT want users to be able to change that
form, then now flip back into design mode change the forms border to "thin"
and save again.

 

[JamesJ]

Some of my forms I needed to set to popup because I reference
the calling form in the onclose of the popup form.
I've now changed all my forms to to no popups and simply check
if the underlying form is open in the onclose.
It seems to be working fine.

James

 

[Albert D. Kallal]

Some of my forms I needed to set to popup because I reference
the calling form in the onclose of the popup form.

Why use popup..why not use model forms?

I've now changed all my forms to to no popups and simply check
if the underlying form is open in the onclose.
It seems to be working fine.

Using popup forms for the wrong reason tends to really mess up an
application.

You several different types of forms and how they are to be used is VERY
different.

We have

regular
model
popup
Dialog

If you confuse the use of the above and throw in "ONE" popup form, then you
start having to make other forms pop up because you loose control of what
form is on top. It fast becomes like a dog chasing its tail. In "most" cases
what you needed was a model form. A model form means you MUST close the
current form to return to the previous form. Anytime you need to control a
users "flow" in your app, you use model forms. About 80% or more of my forms
are model. Popup forms are used very rare.

A popup form is quite diffent in that the form can stay on top BUT NOT HAVE
the focus. So, this is useful for wizards, or "display info" forms that help
the user during data entry when they are entering data in a **different**
form.

And, again a dialog form is again very different from a model form. Dialog
forms are like a msgbox command, it HALTS calling code (and, you can't even
use the menu bar(s) in this type of form). This behavioral can be most
useful, or very frustrating if you use this type of form wrong. I have an
article explain the difference between model and dialog forms here:

http://www.members.shaw.ca/AlbertKallal/Dialog/Index.html

I really should add some info to the above article about popup forms, as
they again have a VERY VERY different use and purpose as opposed to model
forms, or dialog forms. In fact, all 3 of these forms are to be used in VERY
different cases and for very different reasons....

 

[JamesJ]

But, am I the only one having the only one having problems saving a
popup/model
form's size in access 2007?
I appreciate the info, though.

James

 

[Albert D. Kallal]

But, am I the only one having the only one having problems saving a
popup/model
form's size in access 2007?
I appreciate the info, though.

James

Well,as mentioned, popup and model forms are a grand canyon of different
type of form....


If we using overlapping windows, and model forms, then you should not be
having any type of problem here.....

Try my re-sizing suggestion. Make sure the forms autoresize setting is set
to no.

Also, keep in mind that in 2007, a model form hides the navigation
pane...., a popup form does not. Also keep in mind that a popup form will
allow you to edit data in the previous form if you move it out of the way. A
model form does NOT allow your users to do this (they MUST close the form to
return back down the same series of forms they opened to get to that point
in the application.

I not sure why you having a re-size problem, but I not experiencing that
issue at all....

Try my suggestion of re-sizing in form view mode, then use ctrl-s to save,
and then ctrl-w to close. Then open form in design mode and change the
border from sizeable to thin, and then simply close the form again (ctrl-w),
and answer yes to save. Your form size is now fixed and users will NOT be
able to modify that form. I used this approach with every version of access
since 97, and it works just the same and as well in a2007 (except in
previous versions, I used ctrl-f4 in place of ctrl-w which is new and better
for 2007 anyway).

I wondering if you perhaps some other setting in your form that causing this
problem. Check your forms can grow/can shrink settings for the "detail"
section of the form. Something does not jive quite right here...

 

[JamesJ]

ctrl-w doesn't close the form in my case.

Well,as mentioned, popup and model forms are a grand canyon of different
type of form....


If we using overlapping windows, and model forms, then you should not be
having any type of problem here.....

Try my re-sizing suggestion. Make sure the forms autoresize setting is set
to no.

Also, keep in mind that in 2007, a model form hides the navigation
pane...., a popup form does not. Also keep in mind that a popup form will
allow you to edit data in the previous form if you move it out of the way.
A model form does NOT allow your users to do this (they MUST close the
form to return back down the same series of forms they opened to get to
that point in the application.

I not sure why you having a re-size problem, but I not experiencing that
issue at all....

Try my suggestion of re-sizing in form view mode, then use ctrl-s to save,
and then ctrl-w to close. Then open form in design mode and change the
border from sizeable to thin, and then simply close the form again
(ctrl-w), and answer yes to save. Your form size is now fixed and users
will NOT be able to modify that form. I used this approach with every
version of access since 97, and it works just the same and as well in
a2007 (except in previous versions, I used ctrl-f4 in place of ctrl-w
which is new and better for 2007 anyway).

I wondering if you perhaps some other setting in your form that causing
this problem. Check your forms can grow/can shrink settings for the
"detail" section of the form. Something does not jive quite right here...

 

[Albert D. Kallal]

ctrl-w doesn't close the form in my case.

If the form is set as popup form, then sure ctrl-w will not close the form.
However, as I said you REALLY REALLY need to avoid using a popup form unless
you have no alternatives.

There is other reasons for ctrl-w not to work. For example if your form is
in design mode and the property sheet is open (and HAS the focus), then
ctrl-w will not work. Since I am a keyboard junkie, If I am typing something
in the property sheet and am done, I go:

alt + enter key

Above will close the property sheet - focus is now back on the form in
design mode.

ctrl-w

Above will save the form and if I modified the form, then a save prompt
comes up.

Y

whack "Y" key to answer yes to save prompt and the form closes. At that
option I often whack enter key to re-launch the form.... (you can hit f5,
but I tend to like saving the form first before testing it).

And, for the reverse from the nave pane I often hit ctrl-f to find, type in
a few chars of the form, and then use the up/down arrow keys to select a
form from the nave pane. I then hit ctrl + enter key to open the form up in
design mode. If I going to need the property sheet..then right after
ctrl-enter hit alt + enter key.

I likely do the above sets of keystrokes to open forms in design mode,
display the property sheet and close them 100's of times in a day. it
happens so often and frequent it hard to think about it anymore...

Another possible reason for ctrl-w not working is your opening the form from
the application (code) that opens the form in dialog mode. In that case,
ctrl-w again will not work. You can hit keys to flip the form into design
mode (ctrl + ,) And then ctrl-w, but there is LITTLE reason again to be
opening a form in dialog mode *especially* when you intention is to modify
the form...then you NEVER want to do this.

So, popup, or dialog forms will not close with ctrl-w, but then again, these
types of forms are RARELY used in a typical application. The only exception
here is being dialog forms because you can have code call a dialog form,
your code waits for user input, and when they are done, control returns back
to the code that called the form. That code can then examine the values that
the user just inputted to that form, and then your code continues running
on. If you a developer from older style of coding, then that idea of code
calling a form...waiting ...and then continues is typical coding practice
and one that is usually achieved in ms-access by using a dialog form.

 

[JamesJ]

Just to clarify. When this form is open at runtime form another
form (how it is used) I don't want to be able to select the underlying
form until this form closes. What should my settings be. Popup and
model just model, just popup?
Got another anomaly I must ask about.
In design view of this form when I have the popup to yes. I change the value
of the Width of the form by typing in a new value. The moment I move off
the property and select another the value reverts back top the original
value. Is this normal?
There are noi fields on the form to the side that would prevent this.

James

 

[Keith Wilby]

What should my settings be. Popup and
model just model, just popup?

"you REALLY REALLY need to avoid using a popup form unless you have no
alternatives"

I think Albert has shown tremendous patience in this thread, I would have
bailed out long ago. Why don't you just hide the calling form and then
unhide it when the called form closes? If you can't select a form when
another one is open then there's no point in it being visible.

Keith.

 

[JamesJ]

Just wondering why it seems so impossible to save a popup form size in AC
2007.
I have many 'work arounds'. I just won't use popup in my my ap.

James

 

[JamesJ]

One more thing. I don't want anyone to think I don't appreciate all
the assistance I get from this ng. Albert provided me with allot of
useful information and again, it is appreciated.

James

 

[Albert D. Kallal]

Just to clarify. When this form is open at runtime form another
form (how it is used) I don't want to be able to select the underlying
form until this form closes. What should my settings be. Popup and
model just model, just popup?

In the above case, just use model. Set popup = no, and make sure you don't
open the forms in "dialog" mode (dialog mode can ONLY be done via openform
command in code..it is not a setting of the form). As I mentioned, throw in
one popup form for the wrong reason, and you mess this up big time.

So, the only form setting you need is modal here.

I also suggest turning off auto-resize. And I also suggest that you size the
form in regular view mode (not design mode), go ctrl-s to save, and then
flip into design mode and set the border style to thin as this will prevent
users (and you) from re-sizing the form from that point on....

Got another anomaly I must ask about.
In design view of this form when I have the popup to yes. I change the
value
of the Width of the form by typing in a new value. The moment I move off
the property and select another the value reverts back top the original
value. Is this normal?

Yes, the above is normal if you trying to "decrease" the value. If that
value goes below what the objects on the form can fit in, then the instant
you tab out, it will increase to the lowest possible value in that form. I
not really sure if the popup setting effects this behavior.

There are noi fields on the form to the side that would prevent this.

There must be something on that form, either in the footer, heading, or
detail section. perhaps a "line" or graphic, or something. "line" graphics
can be VERY hard to see/find on the form.

Just try creating a blank form with nothing on it, you not see that size
problem you speak of at all.

I am also guessing that you can increase the width, and when you tab out on
the property, it will not change. So, what you seeing is normal when you try
to re-size a form below the smallest allowable size based on some control on
the form....

(try re-resizing using the mouse to a larger size...you see the width number
in the sheet change when you let go of the mouse). You should then be able
to re-size the form back to at "least" the min width you had when you tabbed
out of the width property.

To "find" some objects on your form, use the combo box at the top of the
property sheet to select one by one each object on the screen to see what is
preventing you from making the form smaller.

 

[JamesJ]

Thanks much,
James

In the above case, just use model. Set popup = no, and make sure you don't
open the forms in "dialog" mode (dialog mode can ONLY be done via openform
command in code..it is not a setting of the form). As I mentioned, throw
in one popup form for the wrong reason, and you mess this up big time.

So, the only form setting you need is modal here.

I also suggest turning off auto-resize. And I also suggest that you size
the form in regular view mode (not design mode), go ctrl-s to save, and
then flip into design mode and set the border style to thin as this will
prevent users (and you) from re-sizing the form from that point on....



Yes, the above is normal if you trying to "decrease" the value. If that
value goes below what the objects on the form can fit in, then the instant
you tab out, it will increase to the lowest possible value in that form. I
not really sure if the popup setting effects this behavior.


There must be something on that form, either in the footer, heading, or
detail section. perhaps a "line" or graphic, or something. "line" graphics
can be VERY hard to see/find on the form.

Just try creating a blank form with nothing on it, you not see that size
problem you speak of at all.

I am also guessing that you can increase the width, and when you tab out
on the property, it will not change. So, what you seeing is normal when
you try to re-size a form below the smallest allowable size based on some
control on the form....

(try re-resizing using the mouse to a larger size...you see the width
number in the sheet change when you let go of the mouse). You should then
be able to re-size the form back to at "least" the min width you had when
you tabbed out of the width property.

To "find" some objects on your form, use the combo box at the top of the
property sheet to select one by one each object on the screen to see what
is preventing you from making the form smaller.