Graphic designers creating with Word

[Chuck M]

I represent our monthly newsprint arts/community paper as a member in a
new group of community organizations. After 2 meetings, I have the
strong feeling that I'll be using Word (instead of InDesign) to produce
ads, flyers, and other short documents for that group - because that's
what they use. PDFs are OK, but Word files produce the most comfort.

My experience with Word and fancier formatting is that Word thinks in a
way that I cannot anticipate. Same language, but a very different mind.
Simple things can take me a long, long time.

Recent example: A small graphic was to be added to an order form. Not
as part of a text box (if that's what they're called). But stand alone.
With type around it but separate. But every variation on inserting
picture that I tried placed the picture in one of the text boxes.
That's obviously wrong, I thought, but it really wasn't. After an hour
or so, I discovered if I selected the graphic inside the text box, I
could Format the picture to relate to the page and not the text box. So
I had to put it in the wrong place to get it to the right place. That
gives my mind a small kernel panic.

If someone has assembled, let's say, a list of things graphic designers
need to know to use Word for page design, it wold probably save me
enough time to clean my bachelor apartment. (And if you saw my place
you'd know that's a lot of time.)

TIA...

 

[CyberTaz]

Boy, you really had to go and hose down the hornet's nest, dintcha?

You'll undoubtedly get a lot of response on this subject, but let me be the
first to provide [My] 2 Cardinal Rules of page layout/graphic design using
Word:

Rule #1- *Don't*
Rule #2- If tempted to do so anyway, see rule #1

Seriously, though, simple to minimally complex layouts can be accomplished,
but it takes a pretty good understanding of how Word is designed to work -
which you've already found is *not* how one might "expect". Most of those
who would encourage such projects in Word are seasoned professionals who are
often forgetful of a couple of things: the techniques 'seem simple' to them
because they have been doing those things for years (may even have been the
originators of same), that they probably *had* to do so out of necessity,
and what a hassle it was to master the tools.

The most important point is that we're dealing with a _word_ processing
program, which by definition means text, not graphics. Virtually every
layout feature added to Word over the years [IMHO] has been a concession by
MS to the marketplace that Word be the "Swiss Army Knife" of software - only
with an unlimited arsenal of blades & attachments. The result is that most
of the 'accoutrements' are mediocre at best & contribute more to frustration
& corrupt docs than to professional results for even talented users.

Before I rant any further, I should point out that if any of the doc types
you mention are to be printed commercially, Word does *not* support CMYK,
Spot Color, Color Management, high-res (over 300 ppi) as well as many of the
other desirable (if not mandatory) features found in a program such as
InDesign. In order to produce high quality image output the images must be
linked, rather than embedded, and supplied to any destination the doc might
go. Word is also lacking in pro caliber typsetting controls for tracking,
kerning, baseline shift, ligatures, etc. - althought the advent of Unicode
has helped somewhat for a wider array of glyphs. And on, and on, and on...

If you're still interested, you might want to start here;

http://word.mvps.org/Mac/PagesInWord.html

for a more comprehensive understanding of how Word *does* work. In
particular, the links

About the Draw Layer: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/DrwGrphcs/DrawLayer.htm
&
About Floating Graphics: http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=268713

will definitely be useful as well as informative. You can also learn a great
deal about using Word in general from the following article written by MVP
Clive Huggan - It has almost become the "serious Word user's bible".

http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html

Additionally, there will usually be someone here to offer assistance & point
to other material on specific topics.
--
Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

P.S. - Don't get the idea that I'm anti-Word - just the opposite. I respect
it as the most capable & most powerful word processor around... I just
believe in using the right tool for the job whenever possible ;-)

 

[Clive Huggan]

Hello Chuck,

I'll second every word Bob wrote (except "rant" -- he has the measured
self-control of a high court judge ;-)

One of the factors covered in the articles Bob recommends is the
significance of printer drivers in determining the pagination of Word when a
document is printed. Different driver = different pagination. And because
of differences in screen display it's more likely that a given Word document
will display differently on Windows from OS X than from one Mac to another
or one PC from another. That's why it's highly desirable to lock down the
pagination of a file produced in Word by sending it to the printer (whether
commercial or just the person who hits "Print" on their laser printer) as a
PDF.

That's why some of us who are heavily involved in collaborative development
of long documents send a PDF along with the Word document for colleagues to
print from, so they know how it looks on our screen.

All this originates from Word having no concept of a "page", as distinct
from page layout applications. For word processing that's a huge advantage,
because if you have to add a couple of lines to the front of a long
document, provided you have formatted it along "minimum maintenance" lines
you don't have to hand-tweak the document at all, other than to initiate an
update of the table of contents. How far from the age of the typewriter...

(Minimum maintenance = no/few hard page breaks, headings glue themselves to
the following text so they follow the text over to the next page, etc etc --
an article is in appendix A to "Bend Word to Your Will".)

Chuck, I notice you say:
If you have skills in InDesign, you'd be better gently insisting that you'll
take contributed material from them in Word, then transforming it in
InDesign and outputting to PDFs. A little pain and horror will be good for
them, and if they want publicity from your publication...

[This may or may not be relevant: If you don't have extensive experience in
InDesign and cost is a consideration, Apple's Pages application isn't too
bad for your type of task. Here in Australia it's 1/20 the cost of InDesign
and dollar-for-dollar it's good value. It has some limitations, mainly
resulting from being heavily based on pre-designed templates (and by the
time you have solved the problems it's arguable that InDesign would have
been quicker), and I have concerns that Apple are not developing the product
quickly enough to overcome some significant shortcomings. But for products
that don't vary by huge amounts it's fine; my wife uses it for a community
publication and really likes it most of the time.]

Finally, you won't find any coverage of graphics in "Bend Word to Your
Will": I say "I don¹t do any graphical work in Word documents (the
screenshots in this document excepted), since Word is not optimized for
graphics, cross-platform graphic problems are endemic, and page layout
software is designed for this purpose".

'Nuff said...

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the US and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================

Boy, you really had to go and hose down the hornet's nest, dintcha?

You'll undoubtedly get a lot of response on this subject, but let me be the
first to provide [My] 2 Cardinal Rules of page layout/graphic design using
Word:

Rule #1- *Don't*
Rule #2- If tempted to do so anyway, see rule #1

Seriously, though, simple to minimally complex layouts can be accomplished,
but it takes a pretty good understanding of how Word is designed to work -
which you've already found is *not* how one might "expect". Most of those
who would encourage such projects in Word are seasoned professionals who are
often forgetful of a couple of things: the techniques 'seem simple' to them
because they have been doing those things for years (may even have been the
originators of same), that they probably *had* to do so out of necessity,
and what a hassle it was to master the tools.

The most important point is that we're dealing with a _word_ processing
program, which by definition means text, not graphics. Virtually every
layout feature added to Word over the years [IMHO] has been a concession by
MS to the marketplace that Word be the "Swiss Army Knife" of software - only
with an unlimited arsenal of blades & attachments. The result is that most
of the 'accoutrements' are mediocre at best & contribute more to frustration
& corrupt docs than to professional results for even talented users.

Before I rant any further, I should point out that if any of the doc types
you mention are to be printed commercially, Word does *not* support CMYK,
Spot Color, Color Management, high-res (over 300 ppi) as well as many of the
other desirable (if not mandatory) features found in a program such as
InDesign. In order to produce high quality image output the images must be
linked, rather than embedded, and supplied to any destination the doc might
go. Word is also lacking in pro caliber typsetting controls for tracking,
kerning, baseline shift, ligatures, etc. - althought the advent of Unicode
has helped somewhat for a wider array of glyphs. And on, and on, and on...

If you're still interested, you might want to start here;

http://word.mvps.org/Mac/PagesInWord.html

for a more comprehensive understanding of how Word *does* work. In
particular, the links

About the Draw Layer: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/DrwGrphcs/DrawLayer.htm
&
About Floating Graphics: http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=268713

will definitely be useful as well as informative. You can also learn a great
deal about using Word in general from the following article written by MVP
Clive Huggan - It has almost become the "serious Word user's bible".

http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html

Additionally, there will usually be someone here to offer assistance & point
to other material on specific topics.

I represent our monthly newsprint arts/community paper as a member in a
new group of community organizations. After 2 meetings, I have the
strong feeling that I'll be using Word (instead of InDesign) to produce
ads, flyers, and other short documents for that group - because that's
what they use. PDFs are OK, but Word files produce the most comfort.

My experience with Word and fancier formatting is that Word thinks in a
way that I cannot anticipate. Same language, but a very different mind.
Simple things can take me a long, long time.

Recent example: A small graphic was to be added to an order form. Not
as part of a text box (if that's what they're called). But stand alone.
With type around it but separate. But every variation on inserting
picture that I tried placed the picture in one of the text boxes.
That's obviously wrong, I thought, but it really wasn't. After an hour
or so, I discovered if I selected the graphic inside the text box, I
could Format the picture to relate to the page and not the text box. So
I had to put it in the wrong place to get it to the right place. That
gives my mind a small kernel panic.

If someone has assembled, let's say, a list of things graphic designers
need to know to use Word for page design, it wold probably save me
enough time to clean my bachelor apartment. (And if you saw my place
you'd know that's a lot of time.)

 

[Chuck M]

I should describe the limits of my interest in using Word.

To appear in our monthly, never... InDesign is my only page-builder.
Haven't done a new project in Quark this year. While I kinda like Pages
I see no particular advantage to it for me. Plus I really, really like
InDesign.

PDF is the final package. Acrobat 4 (1.3). Anything I'd do for the
monthly would get distributed to the members in PDF form.

Our group is called Aware Fox Cities. If I were to put together a
simple flyer for the group and send it, several members probably would
need to change something about the content. With a PDF they can't. With
a Word doc they can. Efficient for them; less overhead for me.

If something should be handled "just so," I'd probably build it in an
Adobe app and insert it into the Word doc as a PNG. But I would hope to
leave most text editable.

I also have a good client whose business sells toner cartridges and
inkjet cartridges. The order form I mentioned is his price list. Prices
change quite often. He can't edit a PDF. He can't work with an InDesign
file. But he can edit a Word file (if I avoid Open Type fonts; he's
running OS9). It took a month, but we finally got a Word file that
prints the same for him as for me, with no obvious glitches - thanks in
part to advice in this forum, for which I'm grateful. (I found out
today that he's decided he doesn't need to email the Word file; he'll
just send printed copies. He's quite happy to quit this project while
we're ahead. <gr>)

Lastly, my UU church uses Publisher not anything fancier. That's not an
option on my Mac. If I can scale down my expectations a bit and satisfy
them in Word, the church staff will find those files good to work with
- through all the changes that can happen when many volunteers and
committees are involved. (And the people are as constructively
fastidious as we UUs normally are.)

So... Yes, use the right tool for the job. But sometimes the right tool
is the one that may be only an inch or two deep (looking at it as a
page design app) but several miles wide.

Of course, this may in part be the optimism and momentum I need to
"attack" all those promising links that you've provided. Thanks.

 

[Clive Huggan]

Below.

Clive Huggan
===============

I should describe the limits of my interest in using Word.

This makes your task much clearer.

To appear in our monthly, never...
???

InDesign is my only page-builder.
Haven't done a new project in Quark this year. While I kinda like Pages
I see no particular advantage to it for me. Plus I really, really like
InDesign.

Understood. I only suggested Pages because I did not know you used InDesign.
It's no choice with me either.

PDF is the final package. Acrobat 4 (1.3). Anything I'd do for the
monthly would get distributed to the members in PDF form.

Our group is called Aware Fox Cities. If I were to put together a
simple flyer for the group and send it, several members probably would
need to change something about the content. With a PDF they can't. With
a Word doc they can. Efficient for them; less overhead for me.

In the same situation I get people to use Acrobat's Comment feature. That
lets me have the final say too -- but I hear what you say re overhead.

If something should be handled "just so," I'd probably build it in an
Adobe app and insert it into the Word doc as a PNG. But I would hope to
leave most text editable.

I also have a good client whose business sells toner cartridges and
inkjet cartridges. The order form I mentioned is his price list. Prices
change quite often. He can't edit a PDF. He can't work with an InDesign
file. But he can edit a Word file (if I avoid Open Type fonts; he's
running OS9). It took a month, but we finally got a Word file that
prints the same for him as for me, with no obvious glitches - thanks in
part to advice in this forum, for which I'm grateful. (I found out
today that he's decided he doesn't need to email the Word file; he'll
just send printed copies. He's quite happy to quit this project while
we're ahead. <gr>)

I don't blame you!!

Lastly, my UU church uses Publisher not anything fancier. That's not an
option on my Mac.

And aren't you glad! ;-)

If I can scale down my expectations a bit and satisfy
them in Word, the church staff will find those files good to work with
- through all the changes that can happen when many volunteers and
committees are involved. (And the people are as constructively
fastidious as we UUs normally are.)

So... Yes, use the right tool for the job. But sometimes the right tool
is the one that may be only an inch or two deep (looking at it as a
page design app) but several miles wide.

Of course, this may in part be the optimism and momentum I need to
"attack" all those promising links that you've provided.

Don't bet on it, Chuck! ;-))

Thanks.

It was a pleasure.
CH
===

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Chuck:

Well, *I* put out most of my publications direct to press from Word. I
specialise in long technical documents and such. These can be complex, but
the projects concerned have neither the time nor the budget to get into
making up individual facing pages.

You're right: you can publish thousands of pages a day (literally!) with
Word and get them looking exactly the way your style sheet specifies. But
to do so, you have to adopt a "word processing" approach as opposed to a
"page layout" approach.

Some fundamental rules:

* Everything in a Word document is positioned with respect to the beginning
of a paragraph.

* A Word file does not contain the concept of a "page". It's a continuous
text flow. Pages are created at output time, for printing or display, they
do not exist in the file.

* A Word document is "empty" not "blank" until you fill it. That white
stuff on the screen? It contains "nothing at all", not "spaces".

* Do it once: do the whole job right the first time. That's a reference to
the fact that it is rare to have a "single" artefact. Usually a Word
document contains several (hundreds!) of things all the same (e.g.
Paragraphs) so make a style to contain ALL of the formatting properties you
need. Do the whole job and take the time to get it right.

* Let it work FOR you, else it will work AGAINST you. Word is designed to
reflow. It's designed to be customised. It's full of power tools. Use
these facilities and techniques: they're sitting there operating anyway, and
if you're not in control of them, they're in control of you You *DO*
have time to learn this in depth, you DON'T have time not to

In page design, you will end up using floating elements quite a bit, so put
the work in to understand them. A floating element floats with respect to a
paragraph, not a page. The paragraph may change page, and you're in charge
of what happens when it does Wrapping properties have measures that are
"relative to a page". That means "Relative to the page their anchor
paragraph ends up on."

Don't chase it, particularly in long documents. Instead of using hard page
breaks to insist on placing page breaks where you want them, use Keep lines
together and keep with next to tell Word where you DON'T. Then let it do
its job and it will reflow most text perfectly. You may then have to make a
couple of small adjustments. If you use hard page breaks, you have to shift
every one every time you edit.

Use tables to prop things up. Learn to handle section breaks to control
your running headers and footers. Learn to handle Templates so when you get
it all right you can save all of your positions and settings for next issue


And stop listening to people who say Word can't do page design. While it's
true, it's not helpful Neither can inDesign. But you can... Use the
tool the way it was designed to work and you'll get great results. But it
is designed to work in a completely different paradigm to page layout
programs, so if you use the techniques from inDesign or Quark, everything
will take a very long time. Use techniques from FrameMaker or newspaper
publishing and you'll be astonished at how quick Word is.

Hope this helps

Hope this helps

I should describe the limits of my interest in using Word.

To appear in our monthly, never... InDesign is my only page-builder.
Haven't done a new project in Quark this year. While I kinda like Pages
I see no particular advantage to it for me. Plus I really, really like
InDesign.

PDF is the final package. Acrobat 4 (1.3). Anything I'd do for the
monthly would get distributed to the members in PDF form.

Our group is called Aware Fox Cities. If I were to put together a
simple flyer for the group and send it, several members probably would
need to change something about the content. With a PDF they can't. With
a Word doc they can. Efficient for them; less overhead for me.

If something should be handled "just so," I'd probably build it in an
Adobe app and insert it into the Word doc as a PNG. But I would hope to
leave most text editable.

I also have a good client whose business sells toner cartridges and
inkjet cartridges. The order form I mentioned is his price list. Prices
change quite often. He can't edit a PDF. He can't work with an InDesign
file. But he can edit a Word file (if I avoid Open Type fonts; he's
running OS9). It took a month, but we finally got a Word file that
prints the same for him as for me, with no obvious glitches - thanks in
part to advice in this forum, for which I'm grateful. (I found out
today that he's decided he doesn't need to email the Word file; he'll
just send printed copies. He's quite happy to quit this project while
we're ahead. <gr>)

Lastly, my UU church uses Publisher not anything fancier. That's not an
option on my Mac. If I can scale down my expectations a bit and satisfy
them in Word, the church staff will find those files good to work with
- through all the changes that can happen when many volunteers and
committees are involved. (And the people are as constructively
fastidious as we UUs normally are.)

So... Yes, use the right tool for the job. But sometimes the right tool
is the one that may be only an inch or two deep (looking at it as a
page design app) but several miles wide.

Of course, this may in part be the optimism and momentum I need to
"attack" all those promising links that you've provided. Thanks.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[fogharty]

Hi Chuck:

I output several 300+ publications a year using Word, which then get
sent to a printer as a pdf file. These publications include graphic
files of all sorts: eps and tif files as well as jpgs; photographs as
well as line art.

It took me a long time to do layout quickly and easily in Word, and I
made a lot of mistakes in the beginning . . . most of which you will
avoid if you read "Bend Word to Your Will."

A few tricks that work for me:

Do use paragraph formatting (space before, space after) to create
separation between paragraphs. Don't use blank returns for this.

Edit your graphics before you bring them into Word. Make them the size
and resolution that you will need for your final document. If you need
to have a 5"x5" image appear as 3" x3", size it down in Photoshop (for
example) before inserting it into your document. Do not insert the
larger image then scale it down (this will help keep you file size down
as well.)

I always save the graphic with the document instead of just linking to
it. This saves problems with broken links later on (a problem that was
rampant in Pagemaker.)

Good Luck!