Handling page numbers in sections of a template

[Kathy]

I'm creating a template in Word 2007 that is set to paper size 8.5x11. It has
4 sections with different footers & page numbers (cover, letterhead, TOC,
main body).

Users of the template will sometimes have to insert a spreadsheet that is
sized 11x17 in the main body, but not in a consistent place.

My thought is to teach them how to insert 2 section breaks and then change
the size of one page/section to be 11x17. When you do that, though, the page
numbering starts over at 1.

Is there a way to force the page numbers to stay consistent throughout the
main body, no matter where they insert a section break? Or is there a better
way to teach them to insert an 11x17 spreadsheet?

Thanks very much.

 

[Terry Farrell]

This is not one of Word's great successes: it just doesn't like mixing page
sizes. I also believe that most printers will barf if you try printing the
document as a continuous run.

My usual solution is to insert an empty page (or a sheet if you are
duplexing) and then create the 11 x 17 and substituting it for the empty
page. The 11 x 17 page can then be fan-folded to align with the rest of the
Letter pages. Because it is a separate document, you can add the same H&Fs
and number the pages to match the sheet it substituted.

The alternative is to slip the 11 x 17 sheet to the back of the document as
an Appendix and point to it in the main body. We do this because we often
have to slip in wide network drawings, racks or floor plans (from Project)
or spreadsheets from Excel.

 

[Pamelia Caswell via OfficeKB.com]

My thought is to teach them how to insert 2 section breaks and then change
the size of one page/section to be 11x17. When you do that, though, the page
numbering starts over at 1.

The next step is to format the page number to continue from the previous
section both in the 11x17 section and the one after. For any section breaks
after these two, the numbers should be continuous. --Word repeats settings
from the previous (like) header/footer in the new one. Because you
restarted the numbering for your main section, they are being restarted in
the next section break.

Is there a way to force the page numbers to stay consistent throughout the
main body, no matter where they insert a section break? You might look into developing a macro that will do all of that with one button click. But users should know how to do it by hand anyway.

Pam

 

[Kathy]

Pam, thanks for the feedback. I agree that users should know how to do it by
hand, but unfortunately that's not my reality. I like the macro idea, but I'm
hesitant to do that because the users of the template may have macros
disabled -- and explaining that might open another can of worms.

Another thought I had was to force a new section every time a certain style
was used. I already have a page break forced every time a custom Heading 1
level is used; is there a way to save a section break to the Heading 1
instead? That would enable me to set the continous page numbering throughout
the document, no matter where they insert a different-sized page.

Kathy

 

[Kathy]

Thanks, Terry -- your solution of printing it as a separate document might be
the cleanest way. Although, I have to create the template to ensure people
follow instruction, so I'm not sure I have faith in them being able to handle
the separate document!

Kathy

 

[Stefan Blom]

No, Word doesn't support saving a section break in a style. You could
experiment with creating an AutoText entry containing a section break, but I
suspect it would cause more confusion among your users (for example because
a section break stores the formatting of the *preceding* section).

 

[Pamelia Caswell via OfficeKB.com]

To my knowledge, there's no way to include section breaks in a style. Besides
you'd need two of them. Have you looked into autotext? I don't use that
feature but maybe someone else here can tell of their experience with it.

Pam

Pam, thanks for the feedback. I agree that users should know how to do it by
hand, but unfortunately that's not my reality. I like the macro idea, but I'm
hesitant to do that because the users of the template may have macros
disabled -- and explaining that might open another can of worms.

Another thought I had was to force a new section every time a certain style
was used. I already have a page break forced every time a custom Heading 1
level is used; is there a way to save a section break to the Heading 1
instead? That would enable me to set the continous page numbering throughout
the document, no matter where they insert a different-sized page.

Kathy
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]

Pam

 

[Jethro Pull]

May I jump in and offer what I think is the simplest way,. but perhaps
because of the users' need, may be completely useless:

Attach it as an Appendix.

That is straight forward and always comes at the same place and can be
referred to in the document in a uniform way.

Sorry if I missed the point, but that's what I would do.

To my knowledge, there's no way to include section breaks in a style.
Besides
you'd need two of them. Have you looked into autotext? I don't use that
feature but maybe someone else here can tell of their experience with it.

Pam

Pam, thanks for the feedback. I agree that users should know how to do it
by
hand, but unfortunately that's not my reality. I like the macro idea, but
I'm
hesitant to do that because the users of the template may have macros
disabled -- and explaining that might open another can of worms.

Another thought I had was to force a new section every time a certain
style
was used. I already have a page break forced every time a custom Heading 1
level is used; is there a way to save a section break to the Heading 1
instead? That would enable me to set the continous page numbering
throughout
the document, no matter where they insert a different-sized page.

Kathy

My thought is to teach them how to insert 2 section breaks and then
change
the size of one page/section to be 11x17. When you do that, though, the
page

[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]

Pam

 

[Terry Farrell]

Just as I said.

Terry

May I jump in and offer what I think is the simplest way,. but perhaps
because of the users' need, may be completely useless:

Attach it as an Appendix.

That is straight forward and always comes at the same place and can be
referred to in the document in a uniform way.

Sorry if I missed the point, but that's what I would do.

To my knowledge, there's no way to include section breaks in a style.
Besides
you'd need two of them. Have you looked into autotext? I don't use that
feature but maybe someone else here can tell of their experience with it.

Pam

Pam, thanks for the feedback. I agree that users should know how to do it
by
hand, but unfortunately that's not my reality. I like the macro idea, but
I'm
hesitant to do that because the users of the template may have macros
disabled -- and explaining that might open another can of worms.

Another thought I had was to force a new section every time a certain
style
was used. I already have a page break forced every time a custom Heading
1
level is used; is there a way to save a section break to the Heading 1
instead? That would enable me to set the continous page numbering
throughout
the document, no matter where they insert a different-sized page.

Kathy

My thought is to teach them how to insert 2 section breaks and then
change
the size of one page/section to be 11x17. When you do that, though,
the page
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]

Pam

 

[Pamelia Caswell via OfficeKB.com]

I just made a quick part I called "Insert11x17pg. It works with the few
changes I made to it (unlinking from previous for both header/footers,
continuous page numbers, and 11x17 page size in the first section and 8.5x11
for the second). I don't have a complex document to test it on right now
so you'll need to test the idea further, but it may suit your need.

Pam

To my knowledge, there's no way to include section breaks in a style. Besides
you'd need two of them. Have you looked into autotext? I don't use that
feature but maybe someone else here can tell of their experience with it.

Pam

Pam, thanks for the feedback. I agree that users should know how to do it by
hand, but unfortunately that's not my reality. I like the macro idea, but I'm

[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]

 

[Kathy]

Thanks, Jethro, good advice -- but I see a few issues with attaching it as an
Appendix -- unless I'm missing something?

1) The 11x17" page may need to be in different places of the document; can't
guarantee it will always work as the very last Appendix.

2) Won't solve the page numbering issue -- if I have users insert a new
Appendix section so they can change the paper size, the page number will
restart. Also, the footer will remain sized for an 8.5x11" page.

I was hoping to find a way to automate this feature, but it doesn't look
like there is one. Thanks for everyone's ideas!

May I jump in and offer what I think is the simplest way,. but perhaps
because of the users' need, may be completely useless:

Attach it as an Appendix.

That is straight forward and always comes at the same place and can be
referred to in the document in a uniform way.

Sorry if I missed the point, but that's what I would do.

To my knowledge, there's no way to include section breaks in a style.
Besides
you'd need two of them. Have you looked into autotext? I don't use that
feature but maybe someone else here can tell of their experience with it.

Pam

Pam, thanks for the feedback. I agree that users should know how to do it
by
hand, but unfortunately that's not my reality. I like the macro idea, but
I'm
hesitant to do that because the users of the template may have macros
disabled -- and explaining that might open another can of worms.

Another thought I had was to force a new section every time a certain
style
was used. I already have a page break forced every time a custom Heading 1
level is used; is there a way to save a section break to the Heading 1
instead? That would enable me to set the continous page numbering
throughout
the document, no matter where they insert a different-sized page.

Kathy

My thought is to teach them how to insert 2 section breaks and then
change
the size of one page/section to be 11x17. When you do that, though, the
page
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]

Pam

 

[Kathy]

Thanks, Pam -- I will give that a try! I got really close with a macro but
couldn't get it to resize the footer to match the 11x17 size automatically.

I just made a quick part I called "Insert11x17pg. It works with the few
changes I made to it (unlinking from previous for both header/footers,
continuous page numbers, and 11x17 page size in the first section and 8.5x11
for the second). I don't have a complex document to test it on right now
so you'll need to test the idea further, but it may suit your need.

Pam

To my knowledge, there's no way to include section breaks in a style. Besides
you'd need two of them. Have you looked into autotext? I don't use that
feature but maybe someone else here can tell of their experience with it.

Pam

Pam, thanks for the feedback. I agree that users should know how to do it by
hand, but unfortunately that's not my reality. I like the macro idea, but I'm

[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]

Pam

 

[Jethro Pull]

You are very kind. Thanks.

My plan would be to handle the 11x17 as a separate doc and just deal with it
that way.

I love the auto features of these apps, but they do have some limits ... ask
again in about 12-15 months and MSFT may solve this in a seamless manner.

Thanks, Jethro, good advice -- but I see a few issues with attaching it as
an
Appendix -- unless I'm missing something?

1) The 11x17" page may need to be in different places of the document;
can't
guarantee it will always work as the very last Appendix.

2) Won't solve the page numbering issue -- if I have users insert a new
Appendix section so they can change the paper size, the page number will
restart. Also, the footer will remain sized for an 8.5x11" page.

I was hoping to find a way to automate this feature, but it doesn't look
like there is one. Thanks for everyone's ideas!

May I jump in and offer what I think is the simplest way,. but perhaps
because of the users' need, may be completely useless:

Attach it as an Appendix.

That is straight forward and always comes at the same place and can be
referred to in the document in a uniform way.

Sorry if I missed the point, but that's what I would do.

To my knowledge, there's no way to include section breaks in a style.
Besides
you'd need two of them. Have you looked into autotext? I don't use
that
feature but maybe someone else here can tell of their experience with
it.

Pam

Kathy wrote:
Pam, thanks for the feedback. I agree that users should know how to do
it
by
hand, but unfortunately that's not my reality. I like the macro idea,
but
I'm
hesitant to do that because the users of the template may have macros
disabled -- and explaining that might open another can of worms.

Another thought I had was to force a new section every time a certain
style
was used. I already have a page break forced every time a custom
Heading 1
level is used; is there a way to save a section break to the Heading 1
instead? That would enable me to set the continous page numbering
throughout
the document, no matter where they insert a different-sized page.

Kathy

My thought is to teach them how to insert 2 section breaks and then
change
the size of one page/section to be 11x17. When you do that, though,
the
page
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]

Pam

 

[Pamelia Caswell via OfficeKB.com]

I hope things are working out. I often have 11x17 pages in documents I edit
or format. In general, if Word allows you to select that paper size, the
printer is capable of accepting that size paper and when the printer is set
to accept paper selection directions from Word, I have had no problems with
switching paper sizes in Word documents.

If your documents will only be edited in W2007, you could try the new
alignment tab feature (http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/msoffice/?p=344).
Otherwise, you could use a three column table, with the cells aligned left,
center, and right, the table width set at 100 percent, and the sections
unlinked (not same as previous). Both methods could mean no user changes to
the header or footer when the margins (or paper sizes/orientations) change.


Note that I have not used the tab alignment feature in client documents
(because they must be prepared in the compatibility mode), but I look forward
to it. I do use the header table regularly. If for some reason you cannot
use the header table

Pam

Thanks, Pam -- I will give that a try! I got really close with a macro but
couldn't get it to resize the footer to match the 11x17 size automatically.

I just made a quick part I called "Insert11x17pg. It works with the few
changes I made to it (unlinking from previous for both header/footers,

[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

A caveat about the header table, though: it can cause Word to "shimmer" a
bit as it constantly recalculates.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

I hope things are working out. I often have 11x17 pages in documents I
edit
or format. In general, if Word allows you to select that paper size, the
printer is capable of accepting that size paper and when the printer is
set
to accept paper selection directions from Word, I have had no problems
with
switching paper sizes in Word documents.

If your documents will only be edited in W2007, you could try the new
alignment tab feature (http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/msoffice/?p=344).
Otherwise, you could use a three column table, with the cells aligned
left,
center, and right, the table width set at 100 percent, and the sections
unlinked (not same as previous). Both methods could mean no user changes
to
the header or footer when the margins (or paper sizes/orientations)
change.


Note that I have not used the tab alignment feature in client documents
(because they must be prepared in the compatibility mode), but I look
forward
to it. I do use the header table regularly. If for some reason you cannot
use the header table

Pam

Thanks, Pam -- I will give that a try! I got really close with a macro but
couldn't get it to resize the footer to match the 11x17 size
automatically.

I just made a quick part I called "Insert11x17pg. It works with the few
changes I made to it (unlinking from previous for both header/footers,

[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]

Pam

 

[Pamelia Caswell via OfficeKB.com]

If the headers/footers are unlinked, they don't shimmy.

Pam

A caveat about the header table, though: it can cause Word to "shimmer" a
bit as it constantly recalculates.

I hope things are working out. I often have 11x17 pages in documents I
edit

[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Ah, okay. I guess you get the benefit of the 100% table at setup time (with
headers linked) and then unlink them?

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

If the headers/footers are unlinked, they don't shimmy.

Pam

A caveat about the header table, though: it can cause Word to "shimmer" a
bit as it constantly recalculates.

I hope things are working out. I often have 11x17 pages in documents I
edit

[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]

Pam

 

[Pamelia Caswell via OfficeKB.com]

Yes, and of not having change the header/footer content in the different
sections.

Ah, okay. I guess you get the benefit of the 100% table at setup time (with
headers linked) and then unlink them?

If the headers/footers are unlinked, they don't shimmy.

[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]