Hardwired RGB Color Values??

[Michael Rooz]

I think this is probably the geekiest thing I've ever asked but does anyone
know what the 'hard-wired' rgb color values are for these colors in
Powerpoint and Excel:

Lime

Red

Sky Blue

Light Orange;

I ask because I need to redesign a set of 4 business symbols using those
exact rgb color values for a business client who only uses PowerPoint and
Excel in both projected and printed presentations. He likes these 4 colors
and wants me to design his business symbols using them. The business symbols
I am to design for him will be used in printed and projected
PowerPoint/Excel presentations and correspond to graphed, plotted and
charted information.

Though I can use a tool like 'Digital Color Meter' to pick up and measure
the RGB color values in one of the above mentioned colors ‹ the measured
value might not be the true value but only the value as represented on my
monitor. With the 'true' values Microsoft used in creating these colors, I
could create his business symbol graphics knowing that he could drop them
into his presentations without worry of color dissimilarity.

Any help here will be greatly appreciated! Thanks!!

Michael

 

[Paul Berkowitz]

Yes. I've done it by AppleScript - it could be done by VBA too.


I put each of those colors into cells A1-A4 then:

tell application "Microsoft Excel"
set ls to {}
repeat with i from 1 to 4
set end of ls to color of interior object of cell ("A" & i)
end repeat
end tell
ls

--> {{32, 147, 233}, {116, 35, 24}, {128, 249, 111}, {224, 63, 227}}

Note that Microsoft uses a type of RGB based on 0-255, not the 0-65535 of
the Digital Color Meter. To get the DGM method, you just need to square each
value.

So:

repeat with i from 1 to 4
set aColor to item i of ls
repeat with j from 1 to 3
set item j of aColor to ((item j of aColor) ^ 2) as integer
end repeat
end repeat

tell ls
set rec to {lime:item 1, red:item 2, skyBlue:item 3, lightOrange:item 4}
end tell

--> {lime:{1024, 21609, 54289}, red:{13456, 1225, 576}, skyBlue:{16384,
62001, 12321}, lightOrange:{50176, 3969, 51529}}


The order of each color set is Red-Green-Blue.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

Paul's solution's neater and gives you a lot of info quickly.

But if you just need a few values and don't want to write script:

Create and paste your Excel content into PowerPoint.
Select and ungroup it.
Select a shape of the color you're interested in and use the usual PPT color
selection tools to get its RGB value

================================================
Steve Rindsberg, PPT MVP
PPT FAQ: www.pptfaq.com
PPTools: www.pptools.com
================================================

 

[Paul Berkowitz]

Paul's solution's neater and gives you a lot of info quickly.

But if you just need a few values and don't want to write script:

Create and paste your Excel content into PowerPoint.
Select and ungroup it.
Select a shape of the color you're interested in and use the usual PPT color
selection tools to get its RGB value

Hmmmm. We've got a problem here. That method (which I assume to mean that I
should use "More Fill Colors" after selecting, and then switch to "RGB
Sliders" uses the default OS Color tools on Mac OS X (Tiger, but I assume
it's the same for Panther and Jaguar), Office 2004 (but I assume the same
for X?). That also shows 3-digit values that appear to be 0-255 based for R,
G and B, but they're completely different than what the AppleScript method
showed.

For example, the Lime color, which gave {32, 147, 233} in AppleScript (and
which squared gives {1024, 21609, 54289}), shows up in the "More Fill
Colors" OS X GB Sliders as {149, 203, 0} ! (If you square those, you get
{22201, 41209. 0}.)

Using the Digital Color Meter in OS 10.4.2, which I see now gives many
options for values, using "RGB as Actual Values, 8-bit" I get {149, 203, 0}
in PowerPoint, and {153, 204, 0} back in Excel, which is close but not
exact, but nothing at all like the AppleScript results. Using "RGB as Actual
Values, 16-bit" I get {38293, 52171, 0} in PowerPoint - which is not squares
of the 8-bit values, and {39321, 52428, 0} in Excel, - again, close but not
exact, again not squares of the 6-bit values.

There seems to be a bug in the AppleScript values returned in Excel. In
fact, I now recall reporting this bug once, and JE, I believe, confirmed it
for VBA. I think that AppleScript and VBA are returning wrong values which
somehow correlate to certain default values somewhere.

What a mess.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

But if you just need a few values and don't want to write script:

Hmmmm. We've got a problem here. That method (which I assume to mean that I
should use "More Fill Colors" after selecting, and then switch to "RGB
Sliders" uses the default OS Color tools on Mac OS X (Tiger, but I assume
it's the same for Panther and Jaguar), Office 2004 (but I assume the same
for X?).

We're in synch so far ...

That also shows 3-digit values that appear to be 0-255 based for R,
G and B, but they're completely different than what the AppleScript method
showed.

For example, the Lime color, which gave {32, 147, 233} in AppleScript (and
which squared gives {1024, 21609, 54289}), shows up in the "More Fill
Colors" OS X GB Sliders as {149, 203, 0} ! (If you square those, you get
{22201, 41209. 0}.)

In ExcelX I get [153, 204, 0] for both the slider values and from DCM in 8-bit
RGB or [ 39321, 52428, 0 ] in 16-bit RGB

Copy/Pasted to PPT and ungrouped, I get [ 152, 203, 0 ] and DCM gives me the
same slightly-different-from-Excel values. Yet DCM 16-bit gives me the same as
it gave me from Excel. Perhaps the copy/paste is using system colors but PPT
and Excel round the 16-bit values to 8-bit slightly differently.

Using the Digital Color Meter in OS 10.4.2, which I see now gives many
options for values, using "RGB as Actual Values, 8-bit" I get {149, 203, 0}
in PowerPoint, and {153, 204, 0} back in Excel, which is close but not
exact, but nothing at all like the AppleScript results. Using "RGB as Actual
Values, 16-bit" I get {38293, 52171, 0} in PowerPoint - which is not squares
of the 8-bit values, and {39321, 52428, 0} in Excel, - again, close but not
exact, again not squares of the 6-bit values.

There seems to be a bug in the AppleScript values returned in Excel. In
fact, I now recall reporting this bug once, and JE, I believe, confirmed it
for VBA. I think that AppleScript and VBA are returning wrong values which
somehow correlate to certain default values somewhere.

What a mess.

A nasty one. Can you get the color value directly from Excel (a 16-bit Long)?


================================================
Steve Rindsberg, PPT MVP
PPT FAQ: www.pptfaq.com
PPTools: www.pptools.com
================================================

 

[Michael Rooz]

What a mess.

But so very interesting (and funny too!).

Well, I've got to thank both of you guys for the hard work you've put into
trying to solve this challenge. I must admit what I've read in this thread
is a bit over my current ability (make that a big bit).

After playing around with DCM for awhile (and finding myself unable to
interpret its readings __ you say square the readings, right?) I jumped over
to ColorHex 1.2 which reads out conventionally in 3 numbers max (i.e.,
255/120/101). These are the values I got:

Lime: 156/206/0

Red: 222/8/0

Light Orange: 255/156/0

Sky Blue: 0/206/255

Using those values I recreated those four colors in Illustrator and
re-colored the business icon/symbols I designed for this client. All of the
colors, except the Lime, displayed properly in Illustrator (Lime was bit
darker but could this be because of my Illustrator color settings?). When I
dragged and dropped the symbols into an open Excel window, there was no
difference in color from what I could have chosen in Excel. Even the Lime
which displayed darker in Illustrator matched up perfectly in Excel.

But! Can I truly take the color values ColorHex 1.2 gave me and consider
them 'true'? It would be so wonderful to know what values Microsoft built
into its color palettes for PowerPoint and Excel, which appear to share the
same.

Michael

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

Well, I've got to thank both of you guys for the hard work you've put into
trying to solve this challenge. I must admit what I've read in this thread
is a bit over my current ability (make that a big bit).

After playing around with DCM for awhile (and finding myself unable to
interpret its readings __ you say square the readings, right?) I jumped over
to ColorHex 1.2 which reads out conventionally in 3 numbers max (i.e.,
255/120/101). These are the values I got:

Lime: 156/206/0
Red: 222/8/0
Light Orange: 255/156/0
Sky Blue: 0/206/255

It occurs to me to ask whether you've got any gamma correction apps or other
color correction going on. That might affect what gets sent to screen.
Whether it'd modify what DCM "sees" or not, I don't know.

Using those values I recreated those four colors in Illustrator and
re-colored the business icon/symbols I designed for this client. All of the
colors, except the Lime, displayed properly in Illustrator (Lime was bit
darker but could this be because of my Illustrator color settings?).

No doubt. It likely wants to show you what the colors will look like printed
(on what? sometimes that's unclear <g>). But vivid RGB greens are often
outside the gamut of printers, so it tries to show you what it'll look like
printed.

When I
dragged and dropped the symbols into an open Excel window, there was no
difference in color from what I could have chosen in Excel. Even the Lime
which displayed darker in Illustrator matched up perfectly in Excel.

Then it's almost certainly the Illo color settings at work.

But! Can I truly take the color values ColorHex 1.2 gave me and consider
them 'true'? It would be so wonderful to know what values Microsoft built
into its color palettes for PowerPoint and Excel, which appear to share the
same.

"True" is such a relative term when it comes to color. Define true, then we'll
talk about it. ,-)



================================================
Steve Rindsberg, PPT MVP
PPT FAQ: www.pptfaq.com
PPTools: www.pptools.com
================================================

 

[Michael Rooz]

On 8/3/05 11:37 PM, in article (e-mail address removed), "Steve



It occurs to me to ask whether you've got any gamma correction apps or other
color correction going on. That might affect what gets sent to screen.
Whether it'd modify what DCM "sees" or not, I don't know.

Just Adobe Gamma, which is down and dirty monitor calibration.


When I dragged and dropped the symbols into an open Excel window, there was
no difference in color from what I could have chosen in Excel. Even the Lime
which displayed darker in Illustrator matched up perfectly in Excel.

Then it's almost certainly the Illo color settings at work.


I would have to agree.


But! Can I truly take the color values ColorHex 1.2 gave me and consider
them 'true'? It would be so wonderful to know what values Microsoft built
into its color palettes for PowerPoint and Excel, which appear to share the
same.

"True" is such a relative term when it comes to color. Define true, then
we'll talk about it. ,-)

Basically, I just want to know what RGB values Microsoft programmers
ascribed to Lime, Red, Light Orange, and Sky Blue. Did they design Sky Blue
to be 0/206/255? Or is it something else? And if it is something else, what
is it? If I had this info I could (without using any color management
whatsoever) redesign the business symbol/icons for a client using
Microsoft¹s RGB values. I just want to be able to give this client a product
they¹ve paid for without any unexpected color shifts. You see, they will be
producing their own financial reports in-house using Excel and PowerPoint
and the colors Lime, Red, Light Orange, and Sky Blue to plot, graph, and
chart financial data. They just want to be assured my symbols correspond
correctly (through color) with the bar graphs and such they are meant to
represent. Things can be so complicated, don¹t you know (sigh).

Thank You Steve!

Michael

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

"True" is such a relative term when it comes to color. Define true, then
we'll talk about it. ,-)

Basically, I just want to know what RGB values Microsoft programmers
ascribed to Lime, Red, Light Orange, and Sky Blue. Did they design Sky Blue
to be 0/206/255? Or is it something else? And if it is something else, what
is it? If I had this info I could (without using any color management
whatsoever) redesign the business symbol/icons for a client using
Microsofts RGB values. I just want to be able to give this client a product
theyve paid for without any unexpected color shifts. You see, they will be
producing their own financial reports in-house using Excel and PowerPoint
and the colors Lime, Red, Light Orange, and Sky Blue to plot, graph, and
chart financial data. They just want to be assured my symbols correspond
correctly (through color) with the bar graphs and such they are meant to
represent. Things can be so complicated, dont you know (sigh).

That's where we get into philosophy. What is truth? Spin the Big Color Wheel
and ... [aw put a lid on it willya, Steve?]

But in all seriousness, though we're seeing slight variances in the RGB (8-bit)
color values reported by your system, Paul's and mine, they're very minor
differences. Certainly there'll be more variance between any two monitors at
the clients and wild differences between the way different printers (vs the
monitors, various and sundry) will render the RGB values even if they're
utterly identical.

On short, keep Illustrator's hands off the color, ungroup the Excel chart in
PPT and use the values there and there should be nothing at all to worry about.

Er. Until it's time to print the business cards in CMYK and they have trouble
with those Limes. <g>



================================================
Steve Rindsberg, PPT MVP
PPT FAQ: www.pptfaq.com
PPTools: www.pptools.com
================================================

 

[Michael Rooz]

On short, keep Illustrator's hands off the color, ungroup the Excel chart in
PPT and use the values there and there should be nothing at all to worry
about.

That does seem the way to go. Done.

Thanks much Steve (and Paul). It's been an interesting and helpful
communiqué.

Michael