Hate the ribbons !!

[WCH]

just curious how many other Office users hate the ribbon as much as I do. It
now takes 6 or more clicks for many of the operations that used to take one
in 2003. how many people want MS to restore the old menus & multiple custom
toolbars?

 

[darkrats]

I don't care for the "ribbon" but MS is not likely to reverse this in future
versions of Office. I could live with it, if the overall size (height) of
the ribbon could be made smaller, say the same size as the old two toolbars
in previous versions. But, again, MS isn't likely to do this either. I tried
to figure out why MS decided on the ribbon instead of the standard toolbars,
and for a long time I couldn't come up with an answer.

Then I saw Office 2007 on a really large screen. I was aware, right away,
that on the larger screen, more buttons were visible than on my smaller
screen, and of course, the ribbon appeared to take up less territory on the
large screen. I realized then that the ribbon was designed for future
computer monitors, and much larger ones than most of us use today. It was
not designed with 17", 19" or 22" screens in mind, nor was it designed for
notebooks.

We won't be seeing the old toolbars again, unless MS is pressured into it,
by a large percentage of Office users.

 

[Ben M. Schorr - MVP (OneNote)]

Gemini will gladly agree with you.

Yes, some people hate the ribbon. Can you be more specific about the
operations that are taking so many clicks for you? Have you tried
adding them to the Quick Access Toolbar?

There may be some solutions to help streamline it for you.

--
-Ben-
Ben M. Schorr, MVP
Roland Schorr & Tower
http://www.rolandschorr.com
http://www.officeforlawyers.com
Author - The Lawyer's Guide to Microsoft Outlook 2007:
http://tinyurl.com/5m3f5q

 

[Meebers]

I would like to have one "ribbon space" that a user could program (add,
delete, move up/down) with their most common items and have a ribbon profile
that you could use for the job at hand. I think I spend 1/2 my time going
back and forth on the ribbon as is......I guess it boils down to being new
and improved!

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Free Online Training for Office 2007
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/training/FX100565001033.aspx?ofcresset=1

Office 2007 For Dummies
http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/Section/id-302927.html

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience -
Windows Vista Enthusiast

---------------------------------------------------------------

just curious how many other Office users hate the ribbon as much as I do. It
now takes 6 or more clicks for many of the operations that used to take one
in 2003. how many people want MS to restore the old menus & multiple custom
toolbars?

 

[Ben M. Schorr - MVP (OneNote)]

I agree that one customizable ribbon would be nice. The Quick Access
Toolbar isn't bad but a little too small.

--
-Ben-
Ben M. Schorr, MVP
Roland Schorr & Tower
http://www.rolandschorr.com
http://www.officeforlawyers.com
Author - The Lawyer's Guide to Microsoft Outlook 2007:
http://tinyurl.com/5m3f5q

 

[csteinhardt]

But there is another option.

We wrote ToolbarToggle which is a product that brings back the origina
Office 2003 Toolbars and Menus to Office 2007 along with the origina
customization capability. It can work with or in place of the ribbon
docked or floated and optionally grabs shortcut keys if you want. Woul
love to get your feedback: http://www.toolbartogle.co

 

[darkrats]

There's a few ways, including your own, that return 2007 to the old
toolbars. Have you looked at being able to add additional color schemes to
Office 2007? Now that option would put you ahead of the crowd.

 

[Chris Game]

We won't be seeing the old toolbars again, ...

Thank goodness for that!

 

[Bogey Man]

I would like to have one "ribbon space" that a user could program (add,
delete, move up/down) with their most common items and have a ribbon profile
that you could use for the job at hand. I think I spend 1/2 my time going
back and forth on the ribbon as is......I guess it boils down to being new
and improved!

It wouldn't be so bad if one could undock the ribbon and have it on the side of the screen. I have a 22 inch LCD monitor and there is lots of space off to the side where it wouldn't be in the way. I can rotate my monitor to portrait position but I don't want to do that if I am working on a Word document and an Excel document at the same time.

 

[Gemini]

Indeed, as Ben says, I agree with you completely. In my case, I tried the
Office 2007 trial version (specifically, Excel) for a few weeks. After that,
I chose to remove Office 2007 completely and revert to Office 2003. The main
reasons were:
* Excel crashed at random, with no provocation. I didn't see the need to
fork over more $$$s to MS for a product that wasn't stable. BTW, after
reverting to Office 2003, the crashes stopped!
* IMHO, the Ribbon is illogical, confusing and counter productive. Since it
offered no advantages (to me) over the classic UI, I didn't see the need to
invest time, money or effort to learn the new UI, because someone over at MS
thinks it's a good idea.

If:you don't like the Ribbon, let MS know. You can send them a feedback from
the Office 2007 area of their website.
In addition, you can register your opinion at www.exceluser.com.

Your feedback is important. MS is trying to claim that the Ribbon is an
outstanding success. Never mind the fact that there's no solid data to back
up that claim.

I would really like to know the answer to one question from Office users:
had MS provided a choice, i.e. use either the Ribbon or the classic UI, how
many users would have VOLUNTARILY switched to the Ribbon?

-- Gemini

 

[Gemini]

I'm sure you've created an excellent product, something that many users
actually want to use. Since I've reverted to Office 2003 for now, I'm not a
candidate to use ToolbarToggle.

When I was trying out Excel 2007, I did try out one of the add-ins to
restore the classic UI. However, I really don't like the idea of paying MS
for a product I don't like (because of the frequent crashes and the
ridiculous Ribbon) and then paying AGAIN to get back the classic menus and
never have to see the Ribbon again.

I wonder if you can get your customers to complete a survey, so as to why
they bought/tried out your product. I expect the results to be quite
illuminating.

-- Gemini

 

[Schooner]

Feel free to ignore this, it's only the considered opinion of a (hold your
nose) customer, an early Vista/MSO7 converter with growing doubts. One of
those home/office users hitherto infinitely loyal to Microsoft, one who
actually buys the stuff & pays for each license & upgrade (damn the expense,
the value has always been crystal clear to anyone who hasn't turned off their
brain).

The ribbon subtracts value from prior version for frequent users: the
inconvenience/novelty factor alone is enough to remove the disincentive to
try alternatives; the endless mousing around defeats the repetitive user who
has keyboard shortcuts memorized instinctively (and doubles the Starbucks
bill as countless paper cups are moused onto the floor); the absence of a
rollback-to-menus feature suggests a decision point. Troublesome specifics
include the oddly inconsistent categorization of things (I'm expecting a menu
of parallel exclusive catagories, and see something like "metals, pink
things, psalms, insouciance"), and the lack of keyboard alternatives for
each/every task.

My first & durable instinct is that the motive behind the ribbon is a
transparent attempt to differentiate expensive MSO from cheap/free
Google/OpenSource type "no name" lookalikes, and as such a confession that
MSO has probably reached the plateau in the old sigmoid curve, targeting
protracted capture of the substantial customer base that will endure
conversion & stubbornly stick to the idiosyncracy once learned (recall Corel,
WordPerfect). If so, MS surely has marketing gurus a whole lot smarter than
me, and will doubtless succeed (though some will make the thoroughly rational
switch to free apps of instantly familiar look/feel with/without cloud, and
the MS no-brainer purchasing rationale (universal software, multilingual
certainty, zero risk of orphaned file types etc) will be subjected to
unprecedentedly cold scrutiny. In my case, the primary impact is the
blurring of distinction between my Macs (formerly pleasantly odd things for
running my pianos & processing video without installing dozens of drivers &
patches & codecs but too fluffy for real work - but now stunningly effective
owing to OSX/MacBookAir) and PCs (real-work, brutally efficient machines
whose sheer effectiveness overwhelmed amateur-unfriendly networking
annoyances - but now suspiciously burdened with perfumed poetry & still
hopelessly crash-prone).

For the sake of my work (not to mention my MS stock) I hope I'm dead wrong
on every observation above.

Schooner.

 

[Harlan Grove]

The ribbon subtracts value from prior version for frequent users: the
inconvenience/novelty factor alone is enough to remove the disincentive
to try alternatives; the endless mousing around defeats the repetitive
user who has keyboard shortcuts memorized instinctively . . . and the
lack of keyboard alternatives for each/every task.

Playing Devil's advocate, Excel 2007 at least supports Excel 2003
keyboard shortcuts, though it's an open question whether that feature
will survive into Excel 14. If not, then forget Excel 14.

As for keyboard alternatives, they DO exist. [Alt] + letter keys for
some letter keys access ribbon tabs, then either letter or arrow/tab
keys access commands within those ribbon tabs, though it's a major
PITA to use arrow/tab keys.

My first & durable instinct is that the motive behind the ribbon is a
transparent attempt to differentiate expensive MSO from cheap/free
Google/OpenSource type "no name" lookalikes, and as such a confession
that MSO has probably reached the plateau in the old sigmoid curve,

....

Yes, obviously Microsoft is trying for greater customer lock-in. And
as for the ribbon being a pain for long-time users while it MIGHT make
Office easier for new users, Microsoft has learned what the tobacco
companies learned a long time ago: in the long term, long term
customers are dead, so new customers are the key to long term success.
And if a patented UI that no one else can legally clone is a means of
greater lock-in for new customers, it's a no-brainer.

 

[Val]

<snip>
Yes, obviously Microsoft is trying for greater customer lock-in. And
as for the ribbon being a pain for long-time users while it MIGHT make
Office easier for new users, Microsoft has learned what the tobacco
companies learned a long time ago: in the long term, long term
customers are dead, so new customers are the key to long term success.
And if a patented UI that no one else can legally clone is a means of
greater lock-in for new customers, it's a no-brainer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think you misunderstand the tobacco business. Hook'em young, keep selling
to them all their life, however long or short that may be. And keep hooking
the new young ones as they come along. MS does follow that model - they do
want to keep selling upgrades and revisions to existing customers, and grab
all the up and coming users as they can - why do you think MS practically
gives away software to students?

Before, M$ published interface standards, so all who wrote programs for
Windows would build upon user knowledge of the interface, and could
concentrate the learning on the specifics of the program at hand.

Now they've tossed all that out the window.

As to locking in customers by a unique interface, when has that alone ever
worked? FWIW, you can already find similar Ribbon (aka Fluent User
Interface) in other software, such as http://www.smartdraw.com/ (watch their
video, expecially the last portion. Look familiar?)

 

[Harlan Grove]

want to keep selling upgrades and revisions to existing customers, and
grab all the up and coming users as they can - why do you think MS
practically gives away software to students?

Yes, I understand this.

Before, M$ published interface standards, so all who wrote programs for
Windows would build upon user knowledge of the interface, and could
concentrate the learning on the specifics of the program at hand.

Now they've tossed all that out the window.

Yes, they have. Why? Perhaps they believe that long-time individual
user BUYERS still using Office have chosen for some reason not to
switch to alternatives by now will eventually upgrade, grudgingly or
not, and corporate buyers will upgrade eventually too, probably slowly
but almost certainly nevertheless.

What they want to do is make it more difficult for people who use
Office at work to be able to use something else at home. To the extent
OpenOffice has made inroads, I doubt it was due to IT shops evaluating
it and finding it better on a cost/performance basis but from end
users showing that to be the case. Microsoft want to stamp out that
possibility.

As to locking in customers by a unique interface, when has that alone
ever worked?

...

No one patented menus and icons. Well, Xerox PARC didn't, and anyone
else couldn't because Xerox PARC was prior art. So menu and icon UI
couldn't be used for customer lock-in. But there's a history of
companies trying to do so. Ever heard about the Lotus Development Corp
lawsuits? They sued Mosaic Software and Paperback Software
International (and later Borland International) over the use of menus
nearly identical to Lotus 1-2-3's. Lotus won the first two and lost
the third, and because they were so intently focused on those
lawsuits, they missed the rise of Windows.

Microsoft didn't need to try very hard with Windows after 1995 or
Office after 1997. They had locks on those markets. Lotus Development
Corp was bought by IBM and all products other than Notes/Domino were
effectively abandoned. WordPerfect Office, which includes Quattro Pro,
became a lower quality product as it was sold from one company to
another from the mid-1990s on and is now actively unpleasant to try to
use.

OpenOffice/StarOffice have only become real threats in the last few
years, with OOo 2.0 (dunno the corresponding SO version). Microsoft
has now reacted. We'll see how it develops.

FWIW, you can already find similar Ribbon (aka Fluent User Interface) in
other software, such as http://www.smartdraw.com/ (watch their video,
expecially the last portion.  Look familiar?)

Yes, Microsoft licenses the ribbon to ISVs with the exception of use
in products competing directly against Microsoft Office.