Help with Interactions between IISadmin mmc and FP2003

[edwardb]

Hi:
I'm a relative newbie to IIS and Frontpage, but I am a long time IT
professional, and I have done a bit of web site publishing admin using
Site Server 3. The problems I'm having are mainly conceptual (I
think), and I'm not sure if this is the right group to handle my
questions (but since this spans a wide gamut; and the one specific
error I have refers to the FP client, I thought that posting here is
as good a place to start as any).

I'm running WinXP Pro SP1 with all WinUpdate critical patches applied.
IIS 5.1 (and FPSE2000) were installed as part of OS build. FP2003
(11.5516.5703) (I'm current as far as Office Update is concerned).
What I want to do is use this machine as a platform on which to do web
page design, development, and testing for 4 different internet web
sites, and two internal intranet sites (one running WSS on W2003).

I am aware that winxp only supports one web site, so we probably
should take all discussions of virtual servers off the table at the
outset.

My thought was to create two folders: "My Web Sites" and "My Webs".
The former would contain one subfolder for each web site I'm managing,
the contents of which would be the "local copy" of the site
managed/created by FP2003. The latter, "My Webs", folder would mirror
the former, and would be the "remote copy" that FP would "publish to".

Then, on the IIS side (from inside IISadmin), I would create virtual
directories that would "point at" the relevant site folders inside the
"My Webs" folder. This would have the effect of keeping all the
server-based content out of wwwroot -- as at some point this stuff may
migrate to another partition or machine. From inside FP I could then
publish from "My Web Sites" to "My Webs\sitename" using disk-based
nomenclature, or to "http://localhost/sitename" using server-based
nomenclature.

This would give me the ability to debug and publish locally
(disk-based) and then simulate a "real" publish to the production site
using a publish to "http://localhost/sitename", the only difference
tween this latter operation and publishing to
http://sitename.realsite.com would be the name; so I can test pretty
much everthing locally without having to resort to the net. I think
of "My Web Sites\sitename" as the "development location", "My
Webs\sitename" as the "staging location", and
"http://localhost/sitename" (which is merely a vdir pointing from
"DefaultWebSite/sitename" back at "My Webs\sitename") as the "pseudo
production location".

This seems to make sense to me, and it appears to work most of the
time. The published content is always in "My Webs\sitename" whether
it was published by FP using disk-based or server-based (http)
methods.

There are some anomalies that appear to me to be confusing: even
though I never put any content in wwwroot (all I did was create a
virtualDir under the default website with name "sitename" which
pointed to "My Webs\sitename") yet somewhere along the line
"wwwroot\sitename" got created (as viewed from Win Explorer) with
content of 6 folders ("_private", 4 "_vtixxx" folders, and an
"images") all empty.

Speaking of Windows Explorer, there is a "web sharing" tab on the
explorer properties dialog for "sitename" in the "My Webs" folder ("My
Webs\sitename") which seems to contain an alias for the virtual
directory name created under the default web site in IISadmin. Are
"Web Sharing" aliases then nothing more than virtual dir names? Could
I in effect create a Virtual Dir in Explorer by adding a Web Sharing
alias to a folder?

There appears to be some subtle difference with the contents of "My
Webs\sitename" depending upon whether the content got there thru a FP
disk-based or FP server-based (http) publishing operation? What is
this difference?

There doesn't appear to be any right click properties dialog that
completely indicates what a folder's "type" is: virtual dir, Web,
SubWeb, disk-based, or server-based??? Even the folder icons seem
confusing: plain vanilla folder, vanilla with little globe in lower
right, vanilla with larger globe centered, and something that looks
like an opened cardboard box with a globe popping out. When I right
click, properties on these items, I can see no coherent, consistent
info pattern to indicate the differences. Is there anywhere where all
the web site/folder icons appearing in FP2003 and IIS Admin MMC are
documented??

There seem to be a bewildering set of seemingly similar terminologies.
Is there anywhere a tutorial that can precisely sort out at least the
following terms, and any differences in meaning from an IIS admin MMC
vs FP2003 vs IE vs WinExplorer vs FPSE2000 admin vs FPSE2002 Admin
perspective??:
-- Web
-- Virtual Web
-- Virtual directory
-- Server-based Web
-- Disk-based Web
-- SubWeb
-- Virtual SubWeb (is there such a thing?)
-- Web Folder
-- Web Client Network (appears in network places from time to time)
-- Server Extensions 2000 Web
-- Server Extensions 2002 Web (ie whats the diff tween FPSE2000 &
FP2002?)
-- Share
-- Web Share
-- Local Site
-- Remote Site

There have been comments here that you cannot turn vdirs into subwebs,
but I seem to be able to first create the vdir in IISadm, then right
click parent dir to create a FPSE extended web and give it the same
name as the vdir, and this seems to work. If I first create the FPSE
extended web that creates a "real" folder in wwwroot which is not what
I want.

Is there any kind of "Best Practice" documentation for all of this?
Also how can one best utilize "Add Network Places" with this stuff as
well?

Last question (and the only thing that absolutely doesn't work -- no
matter what I do): when I right click on a FPSE extended web folder
in IISadmin, go to all tasks, one of the choices is "open with
frontpage" this always fails with message "you need to install
frontpage client to open a web with frontpage". I definitely have
FP2003 installed -- it can open sites both on local machine across
intranet, and even out on internet. I can publish to disk based
locations, local http destinations, and even to sites on internet
using SSL. (I do occasionaly get "server timed out messages" when
publishing, but this always seems to reflect badly screwed up
intrasite navigation -- once I fix that, all appears well again).
Anyhow is there some confusion tween FP2003 and IIS 5.1 Admin? (i.e.
is what I'm seeing normal because for some reason IIS admin was never
coded to recognize FP2003??), or is something with install wrong? I
have uninstalled/reinstalled IIS, FPSE2000, and FPSE2002 all to no
avail. It's a minor annoyance at this point, but even so....

One other note: I have Jim Buyens' book "FP 2002 Inside/Out" and have
read most of it -- especially the publishing chapters.

Any help with my confusions would be appreciated

 

[Stefan B Rusynko]

IMHO
You are making the whole process too complex
- why create the sites as disc based webs to test them as server based webs locally
- just create all your local webs as local server based webs (subwebs under http://localhost/)
- this lets you "test" as you go, and gives you access to all server based run time tools and features

The FP SE under IIS will support 1 root web and unlimited subwebs
Start by correctly installing the FP 2002 SE w/ all updates, then configuring your root web in IIS for the FP SE
Then use the FP SE admin (or open you localhost root web in FP to create/convert folders to subwebs) to create your individual
subwebs for each "project"

For the FrontPage 2002 Server Extensions Support Center see:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;en-us;fp10se

1) Download FP 2002 Server Extensions:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnservext/html/fpse02win.asp
English ones are at:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/FrontPage2002/fpse1002/1/W98NT42KMeXP/EN-US/FPSE1002.exe
2) Download FP2002 Server Extensions Updates (and install in this order):
http://download.microsoft.com/download/FrontPage2002/fpse1001/1/W98NT42KMeXP/EN-US/fpse1001.exe
http://download.microsoft.com/download/FrontPage2002/fpse1002/1/W98NT42KMeXP/EN-US/fpse1002.exe
3) Install the Security Patch at:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;813380
4) Then to apply them see:
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/sts/2001/all/proddocs/en-us/admindoc/owsd02.mspx






| Hi:
| I'm a relative newbie to IIS and Frontpage, but I am a long time IT
| professional, and I have done a bit of web site publishing admin using
| Site Server 3. The problems I'm having are mainly conceptual (I
| think), and I'm not sure if this is the right group to handle my
| questions (but since this spans a wide gamut; and the one specific
| error I have refers to the FP client, I thought that posting here is
| as good a place to start as any).
|
| I'm running WinXP Pro SP1 with all WinUpdate critical patches applied.
| IIS 5.1 (and FPSE2000) were installed as part of OS build. FP2003
| (11.5516.5703) (I'm current as far as Office Update is concerned).
| What I want to do is use this machine as a platform on which to do web
| page design, development, and testing for 4 different internet web
| sites, and two internal intranet sites (one running WSS on W2003).
|
| I am aware that winxp only supports one web site, so we probably
| should take all discussions of virtual servers off the table at the
| outset.
|
| My thought was to create two folders: "My Web Sites" and "My Webs".
| The former would contain one subfolder for each web site I'm managing,
| the contents of which would be the "local copy" of the site
| managed/created by FP2003. The latter, "My Webs", folder would mirror
| the former, and would be the "remote copy" that FP would "publish to".
|
| Then, on the IIS side (from inside IISadmin), I would create virtual
| directories that would "point at" the relevant site folders inside the
| "My Webs" folder. This would have the effect of keeping all the
| server-based content out of wwwroot -- as at some point this stuff may
| migrate to another partition or machine. From inside FP I could then
| publish from "My Web Sites" to "My Webs\sitename" using disk-based
| nomenclature, or to "http://localhost/sitename" using server-based
| nomenclature.
|
| This would give me the ability to debug and publish locally
| (disk-based) and then simulate a "real" publish to the production site
| using a publish to "http://localhost/sitename", the only difference
| tween this latter operation and publishing to
| http://sitename.realsite.com would be the name; so I can test pretty
| much everthing locally without having to resort to the net. I think
| of "My Web Sites\sitename" as the "development location", "My
| Webs\sitename" as the "staging location", and
| "http://localhost/sitename" (which is merely a vdir pointing from
| "DefaultWebSite/sitename" back at "My Webs\sitename") as the "pseudo
| production location".
|
| This seems to make sense to me, and it appears to work most of the
| time. The published content is always in "My Webs\sitename" whether
| it was published by FP using disk-based or server-based (http)
| methods.
|
| There are some anomalies that appear to me to be confusing: even
| though I never put any content in wwwroot (all I did was create a
| virtualDir under the default website with name "sitename" which
| pointed to "My Webs\sitename") yet somewhere along the line
| "wwwroot\sitename" got created (as viewed from Win Explorer) with
| content of 6 folders ("_private", 4 "_vtixxx" folders, and an
| "images") all empty.
|
| Speaking of Windows Explorer, there is a "web sharing" tab on the
| explorer properties dialog for "sitename" in the "My Webs" folder ("My
| Webs\sitename") which seems to contain an alias for the virtual
| directory name created under the default web site in IISadmin. Are
| "Web Sharing" aliases then nothing more than virtual dir names? Could
| I in effect create a Virtual Dir in Explorer by adding a Web Sharing
| alias to a folder?
|
| There appears to be some subtle difference with the contents of "My
| Webs\sitename" depending upon whether the content got there thru a FP
| disk-based or FP server-based (http) publishing operation? What is
| this difference?
|
| There doesn't appear to be any right click properties dialog that
| completely indicates what a folder's "type" is: virtual dir, Web,
| SubWeb, disk-based, or server-based??? Even the folder icons seem
| confusing: plain vanilla folder, vanilla with little globe in lower
| right, vanilla with larger globe centered, and something that looks
| like an opened cardboard box with a globe popping out. When I right
| click, properties on these items, I can see no coherent, consistent
| info pattern to indicate the differences. Is there anywhere where all
| the web site/folder icons appearing in FP2003 and IIS Admin MMC are
| documented??
|
| There seem to be a bewildering set of seemingly similar terminologies.
| Is there anywhere a tutorial that can precisely sort out at least the
| following terms, and any differences in meaning from an IIS admin MMC
| vs FP2003 vs IE vs WinExplorer vs FPSE2000 admin vs FPSE2002 Admin
| perspective??:
| -- Web
| -- Virtual Web
| -- Virtual directory
| -- Server-based Web
| -- Disk-based Web
| -- SubWeb
| -- Virtual SubWeb (is there such a thing?)
| -- Web Folder
| -- Web Client Network (appears in network places from time to time)
| -- Server Extensions 2000 Web
| -- Server Extensions 2002 Web (ie whats the diff tween FPSE2000 &
| FP2002?)
| -- Share
| -- Web Share
| -- Local Site
| -- Remote Site
|
| There have been comments here that you cannot turn vdirs into subwebs,
| but I seem to be able to first create the vdir in IISadm, then right
| click parent dir to create a FPSE extended web and give it the same
| name as the vdir, and this seems to work. If I first create the FPSE
| extended web that creates a "real" folder in wwwroot which is not what
| I want.
|
| Is there any kind of "Best Practice" documentation for all of this?
| Also how can one best utilize "Add Network Places" with this stuff as
| well?
|
| Last question (and the only thing that absolutely doesn't work -- no
| matter what I do): when I right click on a FPSE extended web folder
| in IISadmin, go to all tasks, one of the choices is "open with
| frontpage" this always fails with message "you need to install
| frontpage client to open a web with frontpage". I definitely have
| FP2003 installed -- it can open sites both on local machine across
| intranet, and even out on internet. I can publish to disk based
| locations, local http destinations, and even to sites on internet
| using SSL. (I do occasionaly get "server timed out messages" when
| publishing, but this always seems to reflect badly screwed up
| intrasite navigation -- once I fix that, all appears well again).
| Anyhow is there some confusion tween FP2003 and IIS 5.1 Admin? (i.e.
| is what I'm seeing normal because for some reason IIS admin was never
| coded to recognize FP2003??), or is something with install wrong? I
| have uninstalled/reinstalled IIS, FPSE2000, and FPSE2002 all to no
| avail. It's a minor annoyance at this point, but even so....
|
| One other note: I have Jim Buyens' book "FP 2002 Inside/Out" and have
| read most of it -- especially the publishing chapters.
|
| Any help with my confusions would be appreciated

 

[edwardb]

Hi Stefan
Thank you for your prompt reply. In retrospect I guess I wasn't
very clear in my first post ... I'll try again.

The main thing is: I am NOT asking a "how do I fix something that is
broken" type of question. We do not have anything quite like that.
Everything is working fine; and all the main things with IIS, FP2003,
FPSE 2000, 2002 are installed and working well (publishing, creating
subwebs, hit counters, the works). I appreciate the links below; I
had already done that from the exact links given: both FPSE2002 and
the security patch -- all in, all working fine.

My questions are more along the lines of finding out "how things work"
not "how to fix them".

I appreciate your comment about undo complexity, but that is not in my
purview to change. I work for a corporation that is changing how they
build and manage web sites (currently using Site Server 3.0). To
something else. My job is to gather information and prototype several
of the options under consideration one of which is the subject of my
many questions here. The architecture I presented is only one of
those under consideration; it seems apt because it closely mimics the
Site Server Architecture currently in use, and the probable structure
(more a function of people and organizations than technology, I fear)
that will be eventually be adopted.

It does appear to us -- based on experience to date -- that FP behaves
somewhat differently when working within a local site by itself, when
working and publishing to a disk-based site, when working and
publishing to a server-based site on WinXP (only one site allowed) on
the same machine as the FP client, and working and publishing to a
server based site using W2003 server, or Unix/Linux/Apache (with and
without FPSE) on a totally different machine/Os environment. One of my
tasks is to gather as much factual information about how all of these
scenarios behave so that decision makers can make a more informed
decision. We are attempting to explore all the different
client/server, local/remote site, FP/IIS scenarios that we can.

My questions here, mainly have to do with things one appears to be
able to do either from the IIS Admin MMC snapin, the FPSE2002 admin
pages (really a subset of the Office XP STS admin pages), or from
within FP itself that appear to do the same thing (like creating a
subweb), but may not be exactly the same, or have subtle side effects
depending on (particularly) whether one uses IIS Admin or FP. Since
this is a decidedly corporate environment, the inclination is going to
be towards maximizing reliance on IIS MMC, and minimizing the use of
FP2003 for admin-like tasks. That said it all has to pass through a
"what are actually the technical facts Ma'am" kind of filter first,
which is where my first post comes in.

I'll edit the rest of this and put clarications in line below:

IMHO
You are making the whole process too complex
- why create the sites as disc based webs to test them as server based webs locally
- just create all your local webs as local server based webs (subwebs under http://localhost/)
- this lets you "test" as you go, and gives you access to all server based run time tools and features

Yeah, but to us it seems to then complicate the debugging processes
quite a lot, when you publish truly to a server there is much more
involved (things that can go wrong) than if I publish to a disk-based
web. We want to disaggregate the things that can go wrong and
simplify debugging issues as much as possible. We wish to take a
measured, deliberate, step by step approach to site development,
increasing the complexity as we go along. Hence: development,
staging/QA, production. But then this is not ultimately a decision
that you or I will have much say in. This is a corporation after
all...

The FP SE under IIS will support 1 root web and unlimited subwebs
Start by correctly installing the FP 2002 SE w/ all updates, then

configuring your root web in IIS for the FP SE

Then use the FP SE admin (or open you localhost root web in FP to

create/convert folders to subwebs) to create your individual

subwebs for each "project"

We've done all that, and have no problems with what we have:

"if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

One other corporate kind of mandate is we must keep all meaningful
corporate site content out of wwwroot (a best practice from
somewhere), but NOT to remap the location of the root of the default
web site away from wwwroot (hence the complex vdir/subweb
architecture).

For the FrontPage 2002 Server Extensions Support Center see:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;en-us;fp10se

we used this link (as it turns out) (english link), and followed up
with the security patch.


Question 1:
Even though I never put any content in wwwroot (all I did was create a

| virtualDir under the default website with name "sitename" which
| pointed to "My Webs\sitename") yet somewhere along the line
| "wwwroot\sitename" got created (as viewed from Win Explorer) with
| content of 6 folders ("_private", 4 "_vtixxx" folders, and an
| "images") all empty. Who/What created the real folder in wwwroot, and put

the empty folders there? I thought vdirs were merely an aliasing
scheme to point a "name" that "appeared" to be in wwwroot to a
location somewhere else?
btw, can the location pointed to in a vdir be a UNC name?, a network
mapped drive?, or must it only be a location on the local machine?
See also question 6 below.

Question 2:

| Speaking of Windows Explorer, there is a "web sharing" tab on the
| explorer properties dialog for "sitename" in the "My Webs" folder ("My
| Webs\sitename") which seems to contain an "alias" for the virtual
| directory name created under the default web site in IISadmin. Are
| "Web Sharing" aliases then nothing more than virtual dir names? Could
| I in effect create a Virtual Dir in Explorer by adding a Web Sharing
| alias to a folder?

Question 3:

| There appears to be some subtle difference with the contents of "My
| Webs\sitename" depending upon whether the content got there thru a FP
| disk-based or FP server-based (http) publishing operation? What is
| this difference?

Question 4:

| There doesn't appear to be any right click properties dialog that
| completely indicates what a folder's "type" is: virtual dir, Web,
| SubWeb, disk-based, or server-based??? Even the folder icons seem
| confusing: plain vanilla folder, vanilla with little globe in lower
| right, vanilla with larger globe centered, and something that looks
| like an opened cardboard box with a globe popping out. When I right
| click, properties on these items, I can see no coherent, consistent
| info pattern to indicate the differences. Is there anywhere where all
| the web site/folder icons appearing in FP2003 and IIS Admin MMC are
| documented (or can you at least explain the putative differences among the

various folder icons used in FP folder view and IIS Admin snap-in)??

Question 5:

| There seems to be a bewildering set of seemingly similar terminologies in

use by IIS and FP2003. Is there anywhere a tutorial (or other
documentation,
KB article, etc)that can precisely sort out (at least) the

| following terms, and any differences in meaning from an IIS admin MMC
| vs FP2003 vs IE vs WinExplorer vs FPSE2000 admin vs FPSE2002 Admin
| perspective??:

| -- Web
| -- Virtual Web
| -- Virtual directory
| -- Server-based Web
| -- Disk-based Web
| -- SubWeb
| -- Virtual SubWeb (is there such a thing?)
| -- Web Folder
| -- Web Client Network (appears in network places from time to time)
| -- Server Extensions 2000 Web
| -- Server Extensions 2002 Web (ie whats the diff tween FPSE2000 &
| FP2002?)
| -- Share
| -- Web Share
| -- Local Site
| -- Remote Site

Question 6:

| There have been comments here (on usenet) that you cannot turn vdirs into subwebs,
| but I seem to be able to first create the vdir in IISadm, then right
| click parent dir to create a FPSE extended web and give it the same
| name as the vdir, and this seems to work. If I first create the FPSE
| extended web that creates a "real" folder in wwwroot which is not what
| I want. At any rate could this procedure be the source of the "real" dirs

in wwwroot, and the empty FP-ish directories (_vtixxx's) as well? BTW
are _vti dirs an FP thing, or an IIS thing?,
or an FPSE thing? Is there any known problem with this procedure?

Question 7:

| Is there any kind of "Best Practice" documentation for all of this?

Question 8:

| How can one best utilize "Add Network Places" with this stuff as
| well? Apparently there used to be a notion in pre WinXP OS's of a "Web

Folders" folder, which capabilities now are present (fully or in
part??) in "network places". (The notion of a "Web Folders" folder
seems appealing as the presence or absence of a folder here would
presumably help sort out web and subwebs from vdirs and dirs -- this
sort out capability seems missing from "Network Places")

Question 9:

| Last question (and the only thing that absolutely doesn't work -- no
| matter what I do): when I right click on a FPSE extended web folder
| in IISadmin, go to all tasks, one of the choices is "open with
| frontpage" this always fails with message "you need to install
| frontpage client to open a web with frontpage". I definitely have
| FP2003 installed -- it can open sites both on local machine across
| intranet, and even out on internet. I can publish to disk based
| locations, local http destinations, and even to sites on internet
| using SSL. Anyhow is there some confusion tween FP2003 and IIS 5.1 Admin?
| (i.e. is what I'm seeing normal? because for some reason IIS admin was never
| coded to recognize FP2003??), or is something with install wrong? I
| have uninstalled/reinstalled IIS, FPSE2000, and FPSE2002 all to no
| avail. Are others able to sucessfully open an FP2003 from the IIS

Admin "Open with Frontpage" task? This only happens for us with
FP2003, earlier versions of FP work fine. It's a minor annoyance at
this point, but even so....

One final comment: I haved searched through these Frontpage-related
and IIS-related newsgroups, the web, MSDN, Technet, Office Web, KB
database, all of microsoft.com (using google and more focused search
engines) without finding much in the way of factual detailed technical
info on "how things work" so any help you (or anyone else) can give
will be muchly appreciated. Is this perhaps misposted? Is there a
better newsgroup for this?

TIA

 

[Stefan B Rusynko]

Glad you thought you made it clearer (-;
- but your detailed questions are the subject of a book or manual, not a newsgroup posted response
- if I can find some additional resource links for IIS for you to explore I will post them
See http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=iis60
Note that capabilities and constraints under different Windows Servers (Win Xp Pro IIS5 vs. Win 2003 Server IIS6) are very
different, and non-Windows servers are in a separate category
- your eventual final production server platform should decide your initial approach on local servers

The initial point I was making is still valid
If you are working in the environment you described, do not use disc based webs to start
- they are very limited and do not support any real server based tools, and there will be major differences once you "transfer" to a
local server based web for the next stage
- they do not support collaborative multi-user web development or the tools you will most likely use
(server side scripting, security, databases, run time components, check in, etc)
Definitely do you all your staging / QC / production on local separate server based webs in FP




| Hi Stefan
| Thank you for your prompt reply. In retrospect I guess I wasn't
| very clear in my first post ... I'll try again.
|
| The main thing is: I am NOT asking a "how do I fix something that is
| broken" type of question. We do not have anything quite like that.
| Everything is working fine; and all the main things with IIS, FP2003,
| FPSE 2000, 2002 are installed and working well (publishing, creating
| subwebs, hit counters, the works). I appreciate the links below; I
| had already done that from the exact links given: both FPSE2002 and
| the security patch -- all in, all working fine.
|
| My questions are more along the lines of finding out "how things work"
| not "how to fix them".
|
| I appreciate your comment about undo complexity, but that is not in my
| purview to change. I work for a corporation that is changing how they
| build and manage web sites (currently using Site Server 3.0). To
| something else. My job is to gather information and prototype several
| of the options under consideration one of which is the subject of my
| many questions here. The architecture I presented is only one of
| those under consideration; it seems apt because it closely mimics the
| Site Server Architecture currently in use, and the probable structure
| (more a function of people and organizations than technology, I fear)
| that will be eventually be adopted.
|
| It does appear to us -- based on experience to date -- that FP behaves
| somewhat differently when working within a local site by itself, when
| working and publishing to a disk-based site, when working and
| publishing to a server-based site on WinXP (only one site allowed) on
| the same machine as the FP client, and working and publishing to a
| server based site using W2003 server, or Unix/Linux/Apache (with and
| without FPSE) on a totally different machine/Os environment. One of my
| tasks is to gather as much factual information about how all of these
| scenarios behave so that decision makers can make a more informed
| decision. We are attempting to explore all the different
| client/server, local/remote site, FP/IIS scenarios that we can.
|
| My questions here, mainly have to do with things one appears to be
| able to do either from the IIS Admin MMC snapin, the FPSE2002 admin
| pages (really a subset of the Office XP STS admin pages), or from
| within FP itself that appear to do the same thing (like creating a
| subweb), but may not be exactly the same, or have subtle side effects
| depending on (particularly) whether one uses IIS Admin or FP. Since
| this is a decidedly corporate environment, the inclination is going to
| be towards maximizing reliance on IIS MMC, and minimizing the use of
| FP2003 for admin-like tasks. That said it all has to pass through a
| "what are actually the technical facts Ma'am" kind of filter first,
| which is where my first post comes in.
|
| I'll edit the rest of this and put clarications in line below:
|
| > IMHO
| > You are making the whole process too complex
| > - why create the sites as disc based webs to test them as server based webs locally
| > - just create all your local webs as local server based webs (subwebs under http://localhost/)
| > - this lets you "test" as you go, and gives you access to all server based run time tools and features
|
| Yeah, but to us it seems to then complicate the debugging processes
| quite a lot, when you publish truly to a server there is much more
| involved (things that can go wrong) than if I publish to a disk-based
| web. We want to disaggregate the things that can go wrong and
| simplify debugging issues as much as possible. We wish to take a
| measured, deliberate, step by step approach to site development,
| increasing the complexity as we go along. Hence: development,
| staging/QA, production. But then this is not ultimately a decision
| that you or I will have much say in. This is a corporation after
| all...
| >
| > The FP SE under IIS will support 1 root web and unlimited subwebs
| > Start by correctly installing the FP 2002 SE w/ all updates, then
| configuring your root web in IIS for the FP SE
| > Then use the FP SE admin (or open you localhost root web in FP to
| create/convert folders to subwebs) to create your individual
| > subwebs for each "project"
|
| We've done all that, and have no problems with what we have:
|
| "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
|
| One other corporate kind of mandate is we must keep all meaningful
| corporate site content out of wwwroot (a best practice from
| somewhere), but NOT to remap the location of the root of the default
| web site away from wwwroot (hence the complex vdir/subweb
| architecture).
| >
| > For the FrontPage 2002 Server Extensions Support Center see:
| > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;en-us;fp10se
|
| we used this link (as it turns out) (english link), and followed up
| with the security patch.
|
|
| Question 1:
| Even though I never put any content in wwwroot (all I did was create a
| > | virtualDir under the default website with name "sitename" which
| > | pointed to "My Webs\sitename") yet somewhere along the line
| > | "wwwroot\sitename" got created (as viewed from Win Explorer) with
| > | content of 6 folders ("_private", 4 "_vtixxx" folders, and an
| > | "images") all empty. Who/What created the real folder in wwwroot, and put
| the empty folders there? I thought vdirs were merely an aliasing
| scheme to point a "name" that "appeared" to be in wwwroot to a
| location somewhere else?
| btw, can the location pointed to in a vdir be a UNC name?, a network
| mapped drive?, or must it only be a location on the local machine?
| See also question 6 below.
|
| Question 2:
| > | Speaking of Windows Explorer, there is a "web sharing" tab on the
| > | explorer properties dialog for "sitename" in the "My Webs" folder ("My
| > | Webs\sitename") which seems to contain an "alias" for the virtual
| > | directory name created under the default web site in IISadmin. Are
| > | "Web Sharing" aliases then nothing more than virtual dir names? Could
| > | I in effect create a Virtual Dir in Explorer by adding a Web Sharing
| > | alias to a folder?
|
| Question 3:
| > | There appears to be some subtle difference with the contents of "My
| > | Webs\sitename" depending upon whether the content got there thru a FP
| > | disk-based or FP server-based (http) publishing operation? What is
| > | this difference?
|
| Question 4:
| > | There doesn't appear to be any right click properties dialog that
| > | completely indicates what a folder's "type" is: virtual dir, Web,
| > | SubWeb, disk-based, or server-based??? Even the folder icons seem
| > | confusing: plain vanilla folder, vanilla with little globe in lower
| > | right, vanilla with larger globe centered, and something that looks
| > | like an opened cardboard box with a globe popping out. When I right
| > | click, properties on these items, I can see no coherent, consistent
| > | info pattern to indicate the differences. Is there anywhere where all
| > | the web site/folder icons appearing in FP2003 and IIS Admin MMC are
| > | documented (or can you at least explain the putative differences among the
| various folder icons used in FP folder view and IIS Admin snap-in)??
|
| Question 5:
| > | There seems to be a bewildering set of seemingly similar terminologies in
| use by IIS and FP2003. Is there anywhere a tutorial (or other
| documentation,
| KB article, etc)that can precisely sort out (at least) the
| > | following terms, and any differences in meaning from an IIS admin MMC
| > | vs FP2003 vs IE vs WinExplorer vs FPSE2000 admin vs FPSE2002 Admin
| > | perspective??:
|
| > | -- Web
| > | -- Virtual Web
| > | -- Virtual directory
| > | -- Server-based Web
| > | -- Disk-based Web
| > | -- SubWeb
| > | -- Virtual SubWeb (is there such a thing?)
| > | -- Web Folder
| > | -- Web Client Network (appears in network places from time to time)
| > | -- Server Extensions 2000 Web
| > | -- Server Extensions 2002 Web (ie whats the diff tween FPSE2000 &
| > | FP2002?)
| > | -- Share
| > | -- Web Share
| > | -- Local Site
| > | -- Remote Site
|
| Question 6:
| > | There have been comments here (on usenet) that you cannot turn vdirs into subwebs,
| > | but I seem to be able to first create the vdir in IISadm, then right
| > | click parent dir to create a FPSE extended web and give it the same
| > | name as the vdir, and this seems to work. If I first create the FPSE
| > | extended web that creates a "real" folder in wwwroot which is not what
| > | I want. At any rate could this procedure be the source of the "real" dirs
| in wwwroot, and the empty FP-ish directories (_vtixxx's) as well? BTW
| are _vti dirs an FP thing, or an IIS thing?,
| or an FPSE thing? Is there any known problem with this procedure?
|
| Question 7:
| > | Is there any kind of "Best Practice" documentation for all of this?
|
| Question 8:
| > | How can one best utilize "Add Network Places" with this stuff as
| > | well? Apparently there used to be a notion in pre WinXP OS's of a "Web
| Folders" folder, which capabilities now are present (fully or in
| part??) in "network places". (The notion of a "Web Folders" folder
| seems appealing as the presence or absence of a folder here would
| presumably help sort out web and subwebs from vdirs and dirs -- this
| sort out capability seems missing from "Network Places")
|
| Question 9:
| > | Last question (and the only thing that absolutely doesn't work -- no
| > | matter what I do): when I right click on a FPSE extended web folder
| > | in IISadmin, go to all tasks, one of the choices is "open with
| > | frontpage" this always fails with message "you need to install
| > | frontpage client to open a web with frontpage". I definitely have
| > | FP2003 installed -- it can open sites both on local machine across
| > | intranet, and even out on internet. I can publish to disk based
| > | locations, local http destinations, and even to sites on internet
| > | using SSL. Anyhow is there some confusion tween FP2003 and IIS 5.1 Admin?
| > | (i.e. is what I'm seeing normal? because for some reason IIS admin was never
| > | coded to recognize FP2003??), or is something with install wrong? I
| > | have uninstalled/reinstalled IIS, FPSE2000, and FPSE2002 all to no
| > | avail. Are others able to sucessfully open an FP2003 from the IIS
| Admin "Open with Frontpage" task? This only happens for us with
| FP2003, earlier versions of FP work fine. It's a minor annoyance at
| this point, but even so....
|
| One final comment: I haved searched through these Frontpage-related
| and IIS-related newsgroups, the web, MSDN, Technet, Office Web, KB
| database, all of microsoft.com (using google and more focused search
| engines) without finding much in the way of factual detailed technical
| info on "how things work" so any help you (or anyone else) can give
| will be muchly appreciated. Is this perhaps misposted? Is there a
| better newsgroup for this?
|
| TIA

 

[Jim Buyens]

You've asked a great many questions for a newsgroup posting. Frankly,
I doubt that anyone is going to sit down and type out that many
answers. It's fine to ask questions, but please try to keep them more
focused.

As to developing six Web sites on one copy of WinXP Pro, the usual
solution is to install IIS, install the FrotnPage Server Extensions,
open the root Web in FrontPage, and then create a subsite (synonymous
with subweb) for each site.
Then, create each sits in its own subwite.

For example, if your eventual web sites will be:

http://www.whatever.com
http://cows.whatever.com
http://dogs.whatever.com
http://mice.whatever.com
http://owls.whatever.com
http://pigs.whatever.com

create subsites at:

http://127.0.0.1/www
http://127.0.0.1/cows
http://127.0.0.1/dogs
http://127.0.0.1/mice
http://127.0.0.1/owls
http://127.0.0.1/pigs

Then, when one or more sites are ready to go,

Publish http://127.0.0.1/www to http://www.whatever.com
Publish http://127.0.0.1/dogs to http://dogs.whatever.com

and so forth.

Jim Buyens
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
http://www.interlacken.com
Author of:
*----------------------------------------------------
|\---------------------------------------------------
|| Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003 Inside Out
||---------------------------------------------------
|| Web Database Development Step by Step .NET Edition
|| Microsoft FrontPage Version 2002 Inside Out
|| Faster Smarter Beginning Programming
|| (All from Microsoft Press)
|/---------------------------------------------------
*----------------------------------------------------