Highlighting text

[Rainald Taesler]

When a text is highlighted it is not tied to text, nor the container.

What can one do to avoid that the highlight remains after having moved
the text or the container?

Rainald

 

[Grant Robertson]

When a text is highlighted it is not tied to text, nor the container.

What can one do to avoid that the highlight remains after having moved
the text or the container?

That is one of my chief complaints about both versions of ON. The
highlighting and any notes you may write about a section of text are just
considered drawings that sit on the page with no association to the text
they were written over. When you insert more text above the marked up
section all your markup is screwed up.

This makes marking up text an entirely useless "feature." It looks good
in demos because they never move the text. But the nature of notes on a
computer is that they should be editable without trashing all your
previous work. Otherwise, why use a computer at all?

As to your issue, it appears that you are using the pen to draw
highlighting over your text or to circle things using a transparent pen
color that looks like highlighting. If you use the text select tool then
choose the highlight button on the toolbar (usually just next to the font
color button) you can highlight text or handwriting. What it really does
is change the color of the background for those characters but at least
it sticks with the words when they move around. Unfortunately, you can't
use this to circle areas and you have to have the words you want to
highlight selected before you click the button.

 

[srd]

I don't see this issue. Is this maybe something one a tablet PC? On my
desktop computer, highlighting is attached to the text.

 

[Rainald Taesler]

I don't see this issue. Is this maybe something one a tablet PC?
On my desktop computer, highlighting is attached to the text.

This happens on my desktop.
Did not yet check it on the TabletPC.

Rainald

 

[srd]

Well it doesn't seem then to be a problem inherent in the program, unless
I'm not understanding. When I move text or containers, highlighting goes
with it. Strange that it would be different on different systems.

 

[Rainald Taesler]

Well it doesn't seem then to be a problem inherent in the
program, unless I'm not understanding. When I move text or
containers, highlighting goes with it. Strange that it would be
different on different systems.

It definitely works this way on my system.
No idea why.

IMO this might have to do with the same construction which is
responsable with teh mis-behaviour of printing pages with highlights
(highlighted text shown on top of the text and by this making the text
invisible).

Rainald

 

[Rainald Taesler]

That is one of my chief complaints about both versions of ON. The
highlighting and any notes you may write about a section of text
are just considered drawings that sit on the page with no
association to the text they were written over.

Exactly - at least if one uses "highlighter" pen.
That's how I had done it - just as I was used to from Acrobat.
Thanks to the last paragraph in your mail (see below - thank you so
much for pointing into the right direction<!!!>) I meanwhile detected
that there is another method of highlighting, i.e. marking a text and
then selecting the highlighting feature from the text toolbar.
It's the same way as it works in Word but it was not too obvious for
me :-( :-(

Anyway, this only works with *text*.
It does not work with things imported via the ON-printer.
And for the latter I would need it.

When you insert more text above the marked up section
all your markup is screwed up.

Exactly.
And the result is true nonsense.

This makes marking up text an entirely useless "feature."

100% d'accord.
And it's a shame.

It looks good in demos because they never move the text.
But the nature of notes on a computer is that they should
be editable without trashing all your previous work.
Otherwise, why use a computer at all?

LOL
But honestly speaking: It's one of the most serious shortcomings.
The "highlighter" pen is just useless.
And even worse:
If one has highlighted a document imported by printing and moves the
document (which is a quite normal operation [what good would the
containers be good for?]), the highlights now sitting in a wrong
position cannot even be moved because they are out of reach (fully
covered by the container). No way to get hold of them but moving away
the container until it totally frees the space where the highlights
are sitting.
Only then the focus can be given to the highlights. And as there is no
use in moving them (the container has to be moved back) one has to
delete them, then move the container back and thereafter create the
highlights anew. And the same ad nauseam if the container will be
moved again later. [grrrrh]

This IMO is the result of two things which IMHO are serious
shortcomings of the basic design; they also have very bad results when
using ink:
1.) Although there can be different layers (containers placed on top
of each other, highlights, ink input), there is no way to give the
focus to a piece lying below another one;
2.) There is no way to *group* containers and other items (pictures,
highlights, ink) and by this treat them as a unit (as is usual in any
graphics program, PowerPoint and even Word).

Unless this will be changed in some later version (I do not think so
as the development process seems to be completed in as far as basic
design issues are concerned) I for one regard this as basic flaws and
seriously wrong design decisions.

Things like that can drive me up the wall ...

I assume that some of the issues you are having with ink input (your
postings on using Journal + ON 2003 + ON 2007; did not test that so
far as at present I'm concentrating on the way ON works on a desktop)
are related to the lack of these features too.

It's really bad.
I can easily annotate documents in Word on my tablet with my pen.
I would need the same feature in ON.
Nebbich.

As to your issue, it appears that you are using the pen to draw
highlighting over your text or to circle things using a
transparent pen color that looks like highlighting.

Exactly. This was what I had done. So far I had missed the highlight
button.
But in the case being the cause of my posting I could not have used
anything else as I had to highlight a part of imported material, not
text.

If you use
the text select tool then choose the highlight button on the
toolbar (usually just next to the font color button) you can
highlight text or handwriting. What it really does is change the
color of the background for those characters but at least it
sticks with the words when they move around.

Yes, it works this way.
But it's not as comfortable as it should be.
Marking the text first, then clicking the highlight button and doing
this agin and again for each part of text to be highlighted is far
inferior to a cursor behaving like a real-world highligther which can
be used for "painting" on several parts of a document uno actu.

Unfortunately, you can't use this to circle areas and you
have to have the words you want to highlight selected
before you click the button.

I'm with you in complaining on this!
Really poor.
Did no one check how these things are done in Acrobat??

Rainald
(who is very sad that ON in so far is so poor ... )

 

[srd]

That explains it - I have never used the highlighter pen.

That is one of my chief complaints about both versions of ON. The
highlighting and any notes you may write about a section of text
are just considered drawings that sit on the page with no
association to the text they were written over.

Exactly - at least if one uses "highlighter" pen.
That's how I had done it - just as I was used to from Acrobat.
Thanks to the last paragraph in your mail (see below - thank you so much
for pointing into the right direction<!!!>) I meanwhile detected that
there is another method of highlighting, i.e. marking a text and then
selecting the highlighting feature from the text toolbar.
It's the same way as it works in Word but it was not too obvious for me
:-( :-(

Anyway, this only works with *text*.
It does not work with things imported via the ON-printer.
And for the latter I would need it.

When you insert more text above the marked up section
all your markup is screwed up.

Exactly.
And the result is true nonsense.

This makes marking up text an entirely useless "feature."

100% d'accord.
And it's a shame.

It looks good in demos because they never move the text.
But the nature of notes on a computer is that they should
be editable without trashing all your previous work.
Otherwise, why use a computer at all?

LOL
But honestly speaking: It's one of the most serious shortcomings.
The "highlighter" pen is just useless.
And even worse:
If one has highlighted a document imported by printing and moves the
document (which is a quite normal operation [what good would the
containers be good for?]), the highlights now sitting in a wrong
position cannot even be moved because they are out of reach (fully
covered by the container). No way to get hold of them but moving away
the container until it totally frees the space where the highlights are
sitting.
Only then the focus can be given to the highlights. And as there is no
use in moving them (the container has to be moved back) one has to
delete them, then move the container back and thereafter create the
highlights anew. And the same ad nauseam if the container will be moved
again later. [grrrrh]

This IMO is the result of two things which IMHO are serious shortcomings
of the basic design; they also have very bad results when using ink:
1.) Although there can be different layers (containers placed on top of
each other, highlights, ink input), there is no way to give the focus to
a piece lying below another one;
2.) There is no way to *group* containers and other items (pictures,
highlights, ink) and by this treat them as a unit (as is usual in any
graphics program, PowerPoint and even Word).

Unless this will be changed in some later version (I do not think so as
the development process seems to be completed in as far as basic design
issues are concerned) I for one regard this as basic flaws and seriously
wrong design decisions.

Things like that can drive me up the wall ...

I assume that some of the issues you are having with ink input (your
postings on using Journal + ON 2003 + ON 2007; did not test that so far
as at present I'm concentrating on the way ON works on a desktop) are
related to the lack of these features too.

It's really bad.
I can easily annotate documents in Word on my tablet with my pen.
I would need the same feature in ON.
Nebbich.

As to your issue, it appears that you are using the pen to draw
highlighting over your text or to circle things using a
transparent pen color that looks like highlighting.

Exactly. This was what I had done. So far I had missed the highlight
button.
But in the case being the cause of my posting I could not have used
anything else as I had to highlight a part of imported material, not
text.

If you use
the text select tool then choose the highlight button on the
toolbar (usually just next to the font color button) you can
highlight text or handwriting. What it really does is change the
color of the background for those characters but at least it
sticks with the words when they move around.

Yes, it works this way.
But it's not as comfortable as it should be.
Marking the text first, then clicking the highlight button and doing
this agin and again for each part of text to be highlighted is far
inferior to a cursor behaving like a real-world highligther which can be
used for "painting" on several parts of a document uno actu.

Unfortunately, you can't use this to circle areas and you
have to have the words you want to highlight selected
before you click the button.

I'm with you in complaining on this!
Really poor.
Did no one check how these things are done in Acrobat??

Rainald
(who is very sad that ON in so far is so poor ... )

 

[Rainald Taesler]

That explains it - I have never used the highlighter pen.

IMHO the construction is not too intuitive [siiiiigh]

What does one do in real life when hightlighting?
Using the marker and drawing over the text.

According to GUI design criteria software should use semaphores coming
close to real life. And as in most cases highlighting is done one
documents from *external* sources the functionalitaty of a "brush" (or
call it a pen) is needed.

I think that the highlighting pen should work like the brush used for
applying formatting details to text; Word has that meanwhile -
introduced rather late and still inferior to this tool in AmiPro
(where it was obviously taken from).

Rainald

 

[Grant Robertson]

And even worse:
If one has highlighted a document imported by printing and moves the
document (which is a quite normal operation [what good would the
containers be good for?]), the highlights now sitting in a wrong
position cannot even be moved because they are out of reach (fully
covered by the container). No way to get hold of them but moving away
the container until it totally frees the space where the highlights
are sitting.
Only then the focus can be given to the highlights. And as there is no
use in moving them (the container has to be moved back) one has to
delete them, then move the container back and thereafter create the
highlights anew. And the same ad nauseam if the container will be
moved again later. [grrrrh]

The only safe way I have found to "move" imported "printouts" is either
before you mark on them or by making sure to never draw any ink that goes
over the top or bottom edge of the imported page. Then you can wedge the
insert space tool between the two pictures and move everything from there
on down together. You have to make sure that ON doesn't think you are
continuing a text box from one page to the other. There has to be
absolutely nothing (not even an empty space of a text box) between the
two pages when you insert space there or ON will move some things and not
others. In fact, it may be safe to insert space between all of your pages
ahead of time so you don't get trapped. But in a large document that can
get pretty tedious. I kind of wish there were an option of how much
space to insert between the pages of imported printouts.

 

[Rainald Taesler]

Thanks for your valuable tip.
Put it in my notebook on ON <bg>.

As we were at printed output and containers:
1.) What bothers me each time I'm trying to put new text (be it by
typing or by pasting from the Clipboard) below an existing container:
I could not yet find a way to place the cursor under the container and
to the left. It always appear in a position to the right of the
container.
So I always have to insert something into a new container and then
move it to the wanted position to the left below the container.

2.) I cannot understand why there is no built-in feature to place a
container between two containers with "inserting" it, i.e. moving
everything already existing down.

The issues really hurt me. Obviously the more as for many long years
my favourite wordprocessor had been AmiPro (starting already before
Lotus bought it).
AmiPro based on frames for pictures and offered text-frames too (in
addition to normal text). And so for many long years it was far
superior to initially rather dumb WinWord which needed quite some
version until frames for text and images were usable. And although
AmiPro 3.2 (the last version until Lotus killed it with over-featuring
it's successor WordPro) is really ioutdated now, AFAICS handling of
textframes and frames for images still is not as comfortable and as
flexible in Word 12.0 [ssssigh].

IMO the developers of ON as far as the handling of containers is
concerned might have gained a lot on the issue of making the best out
of frames from a closer look on AmiPro on the one side and Framemaker
on the OTH.

Rainald
(who's hoping that perhaps the handling of containers might be
improved. Each little bit would count)