how can I force MSP to respect the dates I want

[Jeff]

Hi again, and thanks for any help you can give. I want project to respect
the dates and the hours of work I assign to a task, even if this makes for
herculean efforts on the part of the resources involved; half the time that I
assign dates, it ignores them. Is there any solution?

Thanks
Jeff

 

[John]

Hi again, and thanks for any help you can give. I want project to respect
the dates and the hours of work I assign to a task, even if this makes for
herculean efforts on the part of the resources involved; half the time that I
assign dates, it ignores them. Is there any solution?

Thanks
Jeff

Jeff,
The title of your post pretty much says it all - you are trying to make
Project fit your thinking instead of letting it do what it was designed
to do - that is to create and calculate a dynamic schedule plan based on
user inputs of task name, estimated duration, task dependencies, and
resource assignments. If you insist on setting the dates for tasks then
you would be much better off using Excel.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but the solution you seek is for you to learn how
to create a dynamic working schedule with Project. You do NOT do that by
inputting dates. I suggest you take an interactive class on project
management using Project. You could also make use of fellow MVP, Mike
Glen's tutorials on Project. They can be found on Mike's link at,
http://www.mvps.org/project/links.htm. If you need an excellent book on
Microsoft Project, try The Ultimate Learning Guide to Microsoft Office
Project 2007 from Project Experts. You can find out more at,
http://msprojectexperts.com.

John
Project MVP

 

[Jeff]

Hi John,

Thanks for the advice, it does sound like the solution long term, and thanks
for the tutorial links. Believe me, I have been thinking about returning to
Excel! Maybe I should rephrase my question though -
I would like to let project create a dynamic schedule and take advantage of
its capabilities. At the same time, I have certain tasks that have to occur
on specific dates (required by clients ), and other tasks that have to occur
over specific periods of time. How can I tell Project that these tasks have
to be limited in this way, and then let it be flexible and dynamic with the
rest of the tasks? when I try to do this, Project frequently changes the
dates afterwards, leaving me with one-day meetings that are spread out over 2
weeks, etc.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Steve House]

Look at it this way. All projects have required dates that must be met.
But you don't need software to document those requirements - you already
know what they are. Your problem is figuring out exactly what you have to
do to make it happen the way you need it to and that's where the software
comes in. It's a calculator intended to help you figure out how to organize
the workflow and to utilize the resources so that those requirements are met
by predicting the results you'd obtain IF you go with a given plan of
attack. So you input your tasks, their dependencies, and the resource
assignments you envision and let Project freely calculate the dates and
suppose it shows your requirements are being missed ... what does that mean?
What it means is that it has given you a reality check - IF you try to do
the work according to your first ideas regarding how to organize it, you're
not going to be successful at meeting your objectives. What can you do to
fix it? You can't just somehow force Project to show you the dates you want
.... you have to actually materially change the workflow and/or the resource
assignments in order to make real, physical changes in the forces that drive
those dates. If you have a building to paint and it's going to take 2 weeks
for the one painter you have to do it yet your client requires it be
delivered in 1 week, you can't just override Project's calculations, your
only real options are to have your one guy work overtime or to go out and
hire some more painters so the work goes faster. You can't just specify
dates out of the blue - you have to do something concrete to make it happen
that way by changing the real world forces that drive the schedule and as
you experiment with various workflows, Project will tell you which ones will
work and which ones won't. Now to record those required dates in the
schedule is another story - simply entering a deadline on the delivery
milestones will display them and red-flag those that are going over.

HTH

 

[John]

Hi John,

Thanks for the advice, it does sound like the solution long term, and thanks
for the tutorial links. Believe me, I have been thinking about returning to
Excel! Maybe I should rephrase my question though -
I would like to let project create a dynamic schedule and take advantage of
its capabilities. At the same time, I have certain tasks that have to occur
on specific dates (required by clients ), and other tasks that have to occur
over specific periods of time. How can I tell Project that these tasks have
to be limited in this way, and then let it be flexible and dynamic with the
rest of the tasks? when I try to do this, Project frequently changes the
dates afterwards, leaving me with one-day meetings that are spread out over 2
weeks, etc.

Thanks,

Jeff

Jeff,
It looks like Steve provided the "reality" check for managing projects.
I agree with him 100% - I couldn't have said it better.

John

 

[Jeff]

Hi Steve,

Thanks very much for the input, it helps me understand the Project approach.
My problem still remains, though - I have been asked to use Project to
produce our project plans by a client. we have a tight timeline that will no
doubt require us to do a fair amount of overtime. What I would ideally like
to do is to tell Project when certain tasks must happen and how many hours of
work are required by each of our team members to complete each task. I would
then like Project to respect the timelines and hours, and simply show me
where I am dramatically in the red in terms of overtime required. I would
then bring in additional resources or plan to sleep at the office. My
problem is, when I try to do this. Project often overrides my imposed
timelines and dramatically extends them. This gives me a project plan that I
can't show to my clients, and doesn't give me the overtime reality check
that I want. Is there really no way for Project to be used this way? I know
it isn't ideal, but it suits my needs in the short term.

Thanks again,

Jeff

Look at it this way. All projects have required dates that must be met.
But you don't need software to document those requirements - you already
know what they are. Your problem is figuring out exactly what you have to
do to make it happen the way you need it to and that's where the software
comes in. It's a calculator intended to help you figure out how to organize
the workflow and to utilize the resources so that those requirements are met
by predicting the results you'd obtain IF you go with a given plan of
attack. So you input your tasks, their dependencies, and the resource
assignments you envision and let Project freely calculate the dates and
suppose it shows your requirements are being missed ... what does that mean?
What it means is that it has given you a reality check - IF you try to do
the work according to your first ideas regarding how to organize it, you're
not going to be successful at meeting your objectives. What can you do to
fix it? You can't just somehow force Project to show you the dates you want
.... you have to actually materially change the workflow and/or the resource
assignments in order to make real, physical changes in the forces that drive
those dates. If you have a building to paint and it's going to take 2 weeks
for the one painter you have to do it yet your client requires it be
delivered in 1 week, you can't just override Project's calculations, your
only real options are to have your one guy work overtime or to go out and
hire some more painters so the work goes faster. You can't just specify
dates out of the blue - you have to do something concrete to make it happen
that way by changing the real world forces that drive the schedule and as
you experiment with various workflows, Project will tell you which ones will
work and which ones won't. Now to record those required dates in the
schedule is another story - simply entering a deadline on the delivery
milestones will display them and red-flag those that are going over.

HTH


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Hi John,

Thanks for the advice, it does sound like the solution long term, and
thanks
for the tutorial links. Believe me, I have been thinking about returning
to
Excel! Maybe I should rephrase my question though -
I would like to let project create a dynamic schedule and take advantage
of
its capabilities. At the same time, I have certain tasks that have to
occur
on specific dates (required by clients ), and other tasks that have to
occur
over specific periods of time. How can I tell Project that these tasks
have
to be limited in this way, and then let it be flexible and dynamic with
the
rest of the tasks? when I try to do this, Project frequently changes the
dates afterwards, leaving me with one-day meetings that are spread out
over 2
weeks, etc.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Dave]

Why don't you introduce milestones for the dates that you must meet and
then give them deadlines? Then the milestones will move around as you
play with resourcing levels, durations and overtime levels. If any of
your milestones misses its deadline, you will get a red alert appearing
in the info column.

To set a deadline, double click on the milestone name in the table and
then on the advanced tab set a deadline.

It does sound to me as though you are going to find it very hard to
complete this project satisfactorily. If you are using overtime, you
have already used up one of your sources of contingency and if anything
else goes wrong you won't have many options left. I'd be interested to
know how it worked out.

Hi Steve,

Thanks very much for the input, it helps me understand the Project approach.
My problem still remains, though - I have been asked to use Project to
produce our project plans by a client. we have a tight timeline that will no
doubt require us to do a fair amount of overtime. What I would ideally like
to do is to tell Project when certain tasks must happen and how many hours of
work are required by each of our team members to complete each task. I would
then like Project to respect the timelines and hours, and simply show me
where I am dramatically in the red in terms of overtime required. I would
then bring in additional resources or plan to sleep at the office. My
problem is, when I try to do this. Project often overrides my imposed
timelines and dramatically extends them. This gives me a project plan that I
can't show to my clients, and doesn't give me the overtime reality check
that I want. Is there really no way for Project to be used this way? I know
it isn't ideal, but it suits my needs in the short term.

Thanks again,

Jeff

Look at it this way. All projects have required dates that must be met.
But you don't need software to document those requirements - you already
know what they are. Your problem is figuring out exactly what you have to
do to make it happen the way you need it to and that's where the software
comes in. It's a calculator intended to help you figure out how to organize
the workflow and to utilize the resources so that those requirements are met
by predicting the results you'd obtain IF you go with a given plan of
attack. So you input your tasks, their dependencies, and the resource
assignments you envision and let Project freely calculate the dates and
suppose it shows your requirements are being missed ... what does that mean?
What it means is that it has given you a reality check - IF you try to do
the work according to your first ideas regarding how to organize it, you're
not going to be successful at meeting your objectives. What can you do to
fix it? You can't just somehow force Project to show you the dates you want
.... you have to actually materially change the workflow and/or the resource
assignments in order to make real, physical changes in the forces that drive
those dates. If you have a building to paint and it's going to take 2 weeks
for the one painter you have to do it yet your client requires it be
delivered in 1 week, you can't just override Project's calculations, your
only real options are to have your one guy work overtime or to go out and
hire some more painters so the work goes faster. You can't just specify
dates out of the blue - you have to do something concrete to make it happen
that way by changing the real world forces that drive the schedule and as
you experiment with various workflows, Project will tell you which ones will
work and which ones won't. Now to record those required dates in the
schedule is another story - simply entering a deadline on the delivery
milestones will display them and red-flag those that are going over.

HTH


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Hi John,

Thanks for the advice, it does sound like the solution long term, and
thanks
for the tutorial links. Believe me, I have been thinking about returning
to
Excel! Maybe I should rephrase my question though -
I would like to let project create a dynamic schedule and take advantage
of
its capabilities. At the same time, I have certain tasks that have to
occur
on specific dates (required by clients ), and other tasks that have to
occur
over specific periods of time. How can I tell Project that these tasks
have
to be limited in this way, and then let it be flexible and dynamic with
the
rest of the tasks? when I try to do this, Project frequently changes the
dates afterwards, leaving me with one-day meetings that are spread out
over 2
weeks, etc.

Thanks,

Jeff


:

Hi again, and thanks for any help you can give. I want project to
respect
the dates and the hours of work I assign to a task, even if this makes
for
herculean efforts on the part of the resources involved; half the time
that I
assign dates, it ignores them. Is there any solution?

Thanks
Jeff
Jeff,
The title of your post pretty much says it all - you are trying to make
Project fit your thinking instead of letting it do what it was designed
to do - that is to create and calculate a dynamic schedule plan based on
user inputs of task name, estimated duration, task dependencies, and
resource assignments. If you insist on setting the dates for tasks then
you would be much better off using Excel.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but the solution you seek is for you to learn how
to create a dynamic working schedule with Project. You do NOT do that by
inputting dates. I suggest you take an interactive class on project
management using Project. You could also make use of fellow MVP, Mike
Glen's tutorials on Project. They can be found on Mike's link at,
http://www.mvps.org/project/links.htm. If you need an excellent book on
Microsoft Project, try The Ultimate Learning Guide to Microsoft Office
Project 2007 from Project Experts. You can find out more at,
http://msprojectexperts.com.

John
Project MVP

 

[Steve House]

Well, with few exceptions you really CAN'T tell project dates things will
happen and you really shouldn't try. You don't tell it your schedule, it
tells you. That's why it exists - to do otherwise is sort of like using
Excel but not wanting it to do any calculations - what would be the point?
For instance, you may think you're entering a finish date for a task but in
reality you aren't - you're actually entering a Finish No Earlier Than
constraint which is a totally different kettle of fish.

If you enter tasks and it shows them finishing on other than the dates they
actually need to finish, you need to manipulate the driving factors to bring
them into compliance. For instance, I have a task that requires 80
man-hours of work to complete. I could start it today (Monday). IF I put
one person on it, Project will tell me it will end a week from this coming
Friday. But the client insists we must deliver it THIS Friday. So I
increase the resource assignment from 100% to 200% and Project will shorten
the task so we deliver on time. OR I can take the resource that I've
assigned 100% and assign him overtime equal to 40 man-hours and that too
will shorten the task so it completes when the client requires it to. The
thing is, YOU have to experiment with the assignment units or add the
overtime hours in order to achieve that. Project doesn't assign resources
or work hours, project managers do. Only you can know if a resource
assignment is realistic and do-able - only you know what's possible and what
isn't. You make the decisions about resource allocations and it tells you
the results those decisions will obtain for you if you go with that plan.
But it's only software, a glorified adding machine, and it won't make the
decisions for you or suggest a strategy to you - that's your job.

By the way, it's not MS Project's approach - it is the approach that is
inherent in most formal project management methodologies even when using
paper and pencil calculations. Project was written to comply with generally
accepted critical path scheduling methods.

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Hi Steve,

Thanks very much for the input, it helps me understand the Project
approach.
My problem still remains, though - I have been asked to use Project to
produce our project plans by a client. we have a tight timeline that will
no
doubt require us to do a fair amount of overtime. What I would ideally
like
to do is to tell Project when certain tasks must happen and how many hours
of
work are required by each of our team members to complete each task. I
would
then like Project to respect the timelines and hours, and simply show me
where I am dramatically in the red in terms of overtime required. I would
then bring in additional resources or plan to sleep at the office. My
problem is, when I try to do this. Project often overrides my imposed
timelines and dramatically extends them. This gives me a project plan
that I
can't show to my clients, and doesn't give me the overtime reality check
that I want. Is there really no way for Project to be used this way? I
know
it isn't ideal, but it suits my needs in the short term.

Thanks again,

Jeff

Look at it this way. All projects have required dates that must be met.
But you don't need software to document those requirements - you already
know what they are. Your problem is figuring out exactly what you have
to
do to make it happen the way you need it to and that's where the software
comes in. It's a calculator intended to help you figure out how to
organize
the workflow and to utilize the resources so that those requirements are
met
by predicting the results you'd obtain IF you go with a given plan of
attack. So you input your tasks, their dependencies, and the resource
assignments you envision and let Project freely calculate the dates and
suppose it shows your requirements are being missed ... what does that
mean?
What it means is that it has given you a reality check - IF you try to do
the work according to your first ideas regarding how to organize it,
you're
not going to be successful at meeting your objectives. What can you do
to
fix it? You can't just somehow force Project to show you the dates you
want
.... you have to actually materially change the workflow and/or the
resource
assignments in order to make real, physical changes in the forces that
drive
those dates. If you have a building to paint and it's going to take 2
weeks
for the one painter you have to do it yet your client requires it be
delivered in 1 week, you can't just override Project's calculations, your
only real options are to have your one guy work overtime or to go out and
hire some more painters so the work goes faster. You can't just specify
dates out of the blue - you have to do something concrete to make it
happen
that way by changing the real world forces that drive the schedule and as
you experiment with various workflows, Project will tell you which ones
will
work and which ones won't. Now to record those required dates in the
schedule is another story - simply entering a deadline on the delivery
milestones will display them and red-flag those that are going over.

HTH


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Hi John,

Thanks for the advice, it does sound like the solution long term, and
thanks
for the tutorial links. Believe me, I have been thinking about
returning
to
Excel! Maybe I should rephrase my question though -
I would like to let project create a dynamic schedule and take
advantage
of
its capabilities. At the same time, I have certain tasks that have to
occur
on specific dates (required by clients ), and other tasks that have to
occur
over specific periods of time. How can I tell Project that these tasks
have
to be limited in this way, and then let it be flexible and dynamic with
the
rest of the tasks? when I try to do this, Project frequently changes
the
dates afterwards, leaving me with one-day meetings that are spread out
over 2
weeks, etc.

Thanks,

Jeff


:

Hi again, and thanks for any help you can give. I want project to
respect
the dates and the hours of work I assign to a task, even if this
makes
for
herculean efforts on the part of the resources involved; half the
time
that I
assign dates, it ignores them. Is there any solution?

Thanks
Jeff

Jeff,
The title of your post pretty much says it all - you are trying to
make
Project fit your thinking instead of letting it do what it was
designed
to do - that is to create and calculate a dynamic schedule plan based
on
user inputs of task name, estimated duration, task dependencies, and
resource assignments. If you insist on setting the dates for tasks
then
you would be much better off using Excel.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but the solution you seek is for you to learn
how
to create a dynamic working schedule with Project. You do NOT do that
by
inputting dates. I suggest you take an interactive class on project
management using Project. You could also make use of fellow MVP, Mike
Glen's tutorials on Project. They can be found on Mike's link at,
http://www.mvps.org/project/links.htm. If you need an excellent book
on
Microsoft Project, try The Ultimate Learning Guide to Microsoft Office
Project 2007 from Project Experts. You can find out more at,
http://msprojectexperts.com.

John
Project MVP

 

[Jeff]

Thanks to all who responded to this post. I'd be interested to know your
opinions on how many hours of study/practice it takes on average to be able
to use Project easily and efficiently in the way you are talking about (i.e.
to play around with resource assignments etc. so that a project plan reflects
actual external deadlines without using constraints all of the time). I have
so far invested about 20-30 hours into this and have found it a frustrating
piece of software with a steep learning curve.

Thanks,

jeff

 

[John]

Thanks to all who responded to this post. I'd be interested to know your
opinions on how many hours of study/practice it takes on average to be able
to use Project easily and efficiently in the way you are talking about (i.e.
to play around with resource assignments etc. so that a project plan reflects
actual external deadlines without using constraints all of the time). I have
so far invested about 20-30 hours into this and have found it a frustrating
piece of software with a steep learning curve.

Thanks,

jeff

Jeff,
First of all, you're welcome. Just for reference, I'm been working with
Project for over 10 years and I'm still learning new things. Of course,
each new version of Project brings it own set of tools/frustrations to
the table. Getting some initial training is a good way to start, (see
my suggestions in an earlier part of this thread), but Project does have
a steep learning curve and the best way to learn is by doing.

John
Project MVP

 

[John G]

Then how does MSP factor in human load balancing? For example, I am in the
process of converting all of my project from Open Workbench to MSP. OW
allows you to place in task start and finish dates and independently place in
ETC for the task itself. If I have a task that needs to be done between Jan
1 and Jan 15, but it will only take 10 Man hours, MSP makes that a 2 day
task. but if I have that same resource assigned to 12 different tasks during
the same time period with varying lengths, it will cram all 12 tasks into 2
days. that is not mathmatically possible.

some items can be done concurrently allowing the resource to load balance
their time and still falling within the guidelines of the Estmiated Time of
Completion
--
Thanks!

Well, with few exceptions you really CAN'T tell project dates things will
happen and you really shouldn't try. You don't tell it your schedule, it
tells you. That's why it exists - to do otherwise is sort of like using
Excel but not wanting it to do any calculations - what would be the point?
For instance, you may think you're entering a finish date for a task but in
reality you aren't - you're actually entering a Finish No Earlier Than
constraint which is a totally different kettle of fish.

If you enter tasks and it shows them finishing on other than the dates they
actually need to finish, you need to manipulate the driving factors to bring
them into compliance. For instance, I have a task that requires 80
man-hours of work to complete. I could start it today (Monday). IF I put
one person on it, Project will tell me it will end a week from this coming
Friday. But the client insists we must deliver it THIS Friday. So I
increase the resource assignment from 100% to 200% and Project will shorten
the task so we deliver on time. OR I can take the resource that I've
assigned 100% and assign him overtime equal to 40 man-hours and that too
will shorten the task so it completes when the client requires it to. The
thing is, YOU have to experiment with the assignment units or add the
overtime hours in order to achieve that. Project doesn't assign resources
or work hours, project managers do. Only you can know if a resource
assignment is realistic and do-able - only you know what's possible and what
isn't. You make the decisions about resource allocations and it tells you
the results those decisions will obtain for you if you go with that plan.
But it's only software, a glorified adding machine, and it won't make the
decisions for you or suggest a strategy to you - that's your job.

By the way, it's not MS Project's approach - it is the approach that is
inherent in most formal project management methodologies even when using
paper and pencil calculations. Project was written to comply with generally
accepted critical path scheduling methods.

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Hi Steve,

Thanks very much for the input, it helps me understand the Project
approach.
My problem still remains, though - I have been asked to use Project to
produce our project plans by a client. we have a tight timeline that will
no
doubt require us to do a fair amount of overtime. What I would ideally
like
to do is to tell Project when certain tasks must happen and how many hours
of
work are required by each of our team members to complete each task. I
would
then like Project to respect the timelines and hours, and simply show me
where I am dramatically in the red in terms of overtime required. I would
then bring in additional resources or plan to sleep at the office. My
problem is, when I try to do this. Project often overrides my imposed
timelines and dramatically extends them. This gives me a project plan
that I
can't show to my clients, and doesn't give me the overtime reality check
that I want. Is there really no way for Project to be used this way? I
know
it isn't ideal, but it suits my needs in the short term.

Thanks again,

Jeff

Look at it this way. All projects have required dates that must be met.
But you don't need software to document those requirements - you already
know what they are. Your problem is figuring out exactly what you have
to
do to make it happen the way you need it to and that's where the software
comes in. It's a calculator intended to help you figure out how to
organize
the workflow and to utilize the resources so that those requirements are
met
by predicting the results you'd obtain IF you go with a given plan of
attack. So you input your tasks, their dependencies, and the resource
assignments you envision and let Project freely calculate the dates and
suppose it shows your requirements are being missed ... what does that
mean?
What it means is that it has given you a reality check - IF you try to do
the work according to your first ideas regarding how to organize it,
you're
not going to be successful at meeting your objectives. What can you do
to
fix it? You can't just somehow force Project to show you the dates you
want
.... you have to actually materially change the workflow and/or the
resource
assignments in order to make real, physical changes in the forces that
drive
those dates. If you have a building to paint and it's going to take 2
weeks
for the one painter you have to do it yet your client requires it be
delivered in 1 week, you can't just override Project's calculations, your
only real options are to have your one guy work overtime or to go out and
hire some more painters so the work goes faster. You can't just specify
dates out of the blue - you have to do something concrete to make it
happen
that way by changing the real world forces that drive the schedule and as
you experiment with various workflows, Project will tell you which ones
will
work and which ones won't. Now to record those required dates in the
schedule is another story - simply entering a deadline on the delivery
milestones will display them and red-flag those that are going over.

HTH


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs



Hi John,

Thanks for the advice, it does sound like the solution long term, and
thanks
for the tutorial links. Believe me, I have been thinking about
returning
to
Excel! Maybe I should rephrase my question though -
I would like to let project create a dynamic schedule and take
advantage
of
its capabilities. At the same time, I have certain tasks that have to
occur
on specific dates (required by clients ), and other tasks that have to
occur
over specific periods of time. How can I tell Project that these tasks
have
to be limited in this way, and then let it be flexible and dynamic with
the
rest of the tasks? when I try to do this, Project frequently changes
the
dates afterwards, leaving me with one-day meetings that are spread out
over 2
weeks, etc.

Thanks,

Jeff


:

Hi again, and thanks for any help you can give. I want project to
respect
the dates and the hours of work I assign to a task, even if this
makes
for
herculean efforts on the part of the resources involved; half the
time
that I
assign dates, it ignores them. Is there any solution?

Thanks
Jeff

Jeff,
The title of your post pretty much says it all - you are trying to
make
Project fit your thinking instead of letting it do what it was
designed
to do - that is to create and calculate a dynamic schedule plan based
on
user inputs of task name, estimated duration, task dependencies, and
resource assignments. If you insist on setting the dates for tasks
then
you would be much better off using Excel.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but the solution you seek is for you to learn
how
to create a dynamic working schedule with Project. You do NOT do that
by
inputting dates. I suggest you take an interactive class on project
management using Project. You could also make use of fellow MVP, Mike
Glen's tutorials on Project. They can be found on Mike's link at,
http://www.mvps.org/project/links.htm. If you need an excellent book
on
Microsoft Project, try The Ultimate Learning Guide to Microsoft Office
Project 2007 from Project Experts. You can find out more at,
http://msprojectexperts.com.

John
Project MVP

 

[Dave]

There are a number of points you need to consider. Partly it depends on
how prescriptive you want to be when you manage your resource's time.

Firstly you have to understand a few fundamental concepts of Microsoft
Project. Work and duration are not the same. So your 10 hour example
could take place over 10 days with your resource working 1 hour a day or
it could take place over 1.25 days working full time on it. Only you
know how that task should be carried out or how you want your work to
work on it.

In general, you don't enter start and end dates into Project. Rather,
you enter the tasks, and link them according to the order in which they
can be done (not the order you want them to be done) so that task A is
linked to task B only if task B cannot start until after task A finishes
(for simplicity I am talking only about finish-to-start links here).

You then assign the work to the tasks (normally it is best to make all
tasks fixed work) and the resources.

Having done that you can level your tasks so that the application helps
you work out the most appropriate way of scheduling the work.

If certain tasks have to be completed by a certain date, you can enter
constraints (such as finish no later than 15 Jan in your example) but
you should use these sparingly. These constraints should not represent
what you want the dates to be but real constraints that represent
significant problems should they not be met.

Hope this helps.

 

[Steve House]

Dave gave a good response to this and all I can add is I'm more reluctant to
use constraints than he is. To me, a constraint models a condition that
drives the schedule that is not part of the normal scheduling computations.
For example, we might have a task that could start 15 Feb according to the
predecessor linkages and resource availability so that is where Project has
placed it. BUT some required parts for that task are on backorder and won't
arrive from the vendor before the 20th of Feb - so a Start No Earlier Than
constraint is applied to the task in order model that driving influence on
the schedule. Completion times, OTOH, are determined by real physical
factors that drive the schedule such as the avaiability of a resource or the
completion of predecessors and cannot be driven by declaration or fiat. You
may desperately WANT that aformentioned task to finish before 20Feb but if
the parts aren't there, there is no way it can happen that way and no amount
of policy setting or number of executive mandates can change it. The best
you can do is set a deadline on the task in order to flag when it needs to
be done and then, if its calculated schedule shows it will be late,
manipulate the real physical drivers so the calculated schedule comes into
line with the business requirements. You can't just declare that it will
happen on this and this date and finish by that date and expect it to
actually happen that way.

Sometimes I think the greatest myth of management is that it can actually
influence outcomes. <grin>


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Then how does MSP factor in human load balancing? For example, I am in
the
process of converting all of my project from Open Workbench to MSP. OW
allows you to place in task start and finish dates and independently place
in
ETC for the task itself. If I have a task that needs to be done between
Jan
1 and Jan 15, but it will only take 10 Man hours, MSP makes that a 2 day
task. but if I have that same resource assigned to 12 different tasks
during
the same time period with varying lengths, it will cram all 12 tasks into
2
days. that is not mathmatically possible.

some items can be done concurrently allowing the resource to load balance
their time and still falling within the guidelines of the Estmiated Time
of
Completion
--
Thanks!

Well, with few exceptions you really CAN'T tell project dates things will
happen and you really shouldn't try. You don't tell it your schedule, it
tells you. That's why it exists - to do otherwise is sort of like using
Excel but not wanting it to do any calculations - what would be the
point?
For instance, you may think you're entering a finish date for a task but
in
reality you aren't - you're actually entering a Finish No Earlier Than
constraint which is a totally different kettle of fish.

If you enter tasks and it shows them finishing on other than the dates
they
actually need to finish, you need to manipulate the driving factors to
bring
them into compliance. For instance, I have a task that requires 80
man-hours of work to complete. I could start it today (Monday). IF I
put
one person on it, Project will tell me it will end a week from this
coming
Friday. But the client insists we must deliver it THIS Friday. So I
increase the resource assignment from 100% to 200% and Project will
shorten
the task so we deliver on time. OR I can take the resource that I've
assigned 100% and assign him overtime equal to 40 man-hours and that too
will shorten the task so it completes when the client requires it to.
The
thing is, YOU have to experiment with the assignment units or add the
overtime hours in order to achieve that. Project doesn't assign
resources
or work hours, project managers do. Only you can know if a resource
assignment is realistic and do-able - only you know what's possible and
what
isn't. You make the decisions about resource allocations and it tells
you
the results those decisions will obtain for you if you go with that plan.
But it's only software, a glorified adding machine, and it won't make the
decisions for you or suggest a strategy to you - that's your job.

By the way, it's not MS Project's approach - it is the approach that is
inherent in most formal project management methodologies even when using
paper and pencil calculations. Project was written to comply with
generally
accepted critical path scheduling methods.

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Hi Steve,

Thanks very much for the input, it helps me understand the Project
approach.
My problem still remains, though - I have been asked to use Project to
produce our project plans by a client. we have a tight timeline that
will
no
doubt require us to do a fair amount of overtime. What I would ideally
like
to do is to tell Project when certain tasks must happen and how many
hours
of
work are required by each of our team members to complete each task. I
would
then like Project to respect the timelines and hours, and simply show
me
where I am dramatically in the red in terms of overtime required. I
would
then bring in additional resources or plan to sleep at the office. My
problem is, when I try to do this. Project often overrides my imposed
timelines and dramatically extends them. This gives me a project plan
that I
can't show to my clients, and doesn't give me the overtime reality
check
that I want. Is there really no way for Project to be used this way? I
know
it isn't ideal, but it suits my needs in the short term.

Thanks again,

Jeff

:

Look at it this way. All projects have required dates that must be
met.
But you don't need software to document those requirements - you
already
know what they are. Your problem is figuring out exactly what you
have
to
do to make it happen the way you need it to and that's where the
software
comes in. It's a calculator intended to help you figure out how to
organize
the workflow and to utilize the resources so that those requirements
are
met
by predicting the results you'd obtain IF you go with a given plan of
attack. So you input your tasks, their dependencies, and the resource
assignments you envision and let Project freely calculate the dates
and
suppose it shows your requirements are being missed ... what does that
mean?
What it means is that it has given you a reality check - IF you try to
do
the work according to your first ideas regarding how to organize it,
you're
not going to be successful at meeting your objectives. What can you
do
to
fix it? You can't just somehow force Project to show you the dates
you
want
.... you have to actually materially change the workflow and/or the
resource
assignments in order to make real, physical changes in the forces that
drive
those dates. If you have a building to paint and it's going to take 2
weeks
for the one painter you have to do it yet your client requires it be
delivered in 1 week, you can't just override Project's calculations,
your
only real options are to have your one guy work overtime or to go out
and
hire some more painters so the work goes faster. You can't just
specify
dates out of the blue - you have to do something concrete to make it
happen
that way by changing the real world forces that drive the schedule and
as
you experiment with various workflows, Project will tell you which
ones
will
work and which ones won't. Now to record those required dates in the
schedule is another story - simply entering a deadline on the delivery
milestones will display them and red-flag those that are going over.

HTH


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs



Hi John,

Thanks for the advice, it does sound like the solution long term,
and
thanks
for the tutorial links. Believe me, I have been thinking about
returning
to
Excel! Maybe I should rephrase my question though -
I would like to let project create a dynamic schedule and take
advantage
of
its capabilities. At the same time, I have certain tasks that have
to
occur
on specific dates (required by clients ), and other tasks that have
to
occur
over specific periods of time. How can I tell Project that these
tasks
have
to be limited in this way, and then let it be flexible and dynamic
with
the
rest of the tasks? when I try to do this, Project frequently
changes
the
dates afterwards, leaving me with one-day meetings that are spread
out
over 2
weeks, etc.

Thanks,

Jeff


:

Hi again, and thanks for any help you can give. I want project
to
respect
the dates and the hours of work I assign to a task, even if this
makes
for
herculean efforts on the part of the resources involved; half the
time
that I
assign dates, it ignores them. Is there any solution?

Thanks
Jeff

Jeff,
The title of your post pretty much says it all - you are trying to
make
Project fit your thinking instead of letting it do what it was
designed
to do - that is to create and calculate a dynamic schedule plan
based
on
user inputs of task name, estimated duration, task dependencies,
and
resource assignments. If you insist on setting the dates for tasks
then
you would be much better off using Excel.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but the solution you seek is for you to
learn
how
to create a dynamic working schedule with Project. You do NOT do
that
by
inputting dates. I suggest you take an interactive class on project
management using Project. You could also make use of fellow MVP,
Mike
Glen's tutorials on Project. They can be found on Mike's link at,
http://www.mvps.org/project/links.htm. If you need an excellent
book
on
Microsoft Project, try The Ultimate Learning Guide to Microsoft
Office
Project 2007 from Project Experts. You can find out more at,
http://msprojectexperts.com.

John
Project MVP

 

[Dave]

Dave gave a good response to this and all I can add is I'm more
reluctant to use constraints than he is. To me, a constraint models a
condition that drives the schedule that is not part of the normal
scheduling computations. For example, we might have a task that could
start 15 Feb according to the predecessor linkages and resource
availability so that is where Project has placed it. BUT some required
parts for that task are on backorder and won't arrive from the vendor
before the 20th of Feb - so a Start No Earlier Than constraint is
applied to the task in order model that driving influence on the
schedule. Completion times, OTOH, are determined by real physical
factors that drive the schedule such as the avaiability of a resource or
the completion of predecessors and cannot be driven by declaration or
fiat. You may desperately WANT that aformentioned task to finish before
20Feb but if the parts aren't there, there is no way it can happen that
way and no amount of policy setting or number of executive mandates can
change it. The best you can do is set a deadline on the task in order
to flag when it needs to be done and then, if its calculated schedule
shows it will be late, manipulate the real physical drivers so the
calculated schedule comes into line with the business requirements. You
can't just declare that it will happen on this and this date and finish
by that date and expect it to actually happen that way.

Sometimes I think the greatest myth of management is that it can
actually influence outcomes. <grin>

Doesn't simply making the bars shorter guarantee that the work gets done
in time?

 

[Jan De Messemaeker]

Of course it does: everybody can see it, can't they?

--
Jan De Messemaeker
Microsoft Project Most Valuable Professional
+32 495 300 620
For availability check:
http://users.online.be/prom-ade/Calendar.pdf

 

[Rovanton]

Any personal check book balancer in Vista? If so where do I find it please.

 

[John]

Any personal check book balancer in Vista? If so where do I find it please.

Rovanton,
Well, not in this newsgroup. This group is dedicated to questions/Issues
about Microsoft Project, a planning and scheduling application. I
suggest you try a general Vista newsgroup.

John
Project MVP