how do i share an access database via a wireles conncetion

C

chrisdp

I have a 2007 Access database on my laptop that I've put as shared so it
appears on the wireless network and can be seen by another laptop. The
permissions for sharing are set to Full for everyone. The database is set for
sharing with no locks. However, when I try to open the database on the other
laptop a message appears saying that the laptop dosn't have permission to
open it. Very confusing! I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out why it
dosn't work, Can anybody help me with this, thanks if you can?
 
A

Albert D. Kallal

The "why" it is not working is not due to it being wireless.

Both users will need full permissions to that directly (usually including
create rights, and file deletion rights).

Without proper permissions, this will not work.

Now, having said the above, you need to read the following article of mine
why wireless networks will not work reliable with ms-access:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/AlbertKallal//Wan/Wans.html

The above has a part about corruption called:
Why a does JET file share corrupt when the connection breaks?

So, do read the above.

Assuming you go to a wired network, then you can read about running
ms-access with more then one user here:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/AlbertKallal/Articles/split/index.htm
 
C

chrisdp

thanks Albert, I'll read your article with interest. Can you advise me how I
make sure both users have full permissions, I thought I had done this. I
right clicked on the folder to be shared, then clicked on Properties, then
clicked on the tab Sharing and then on the button Advanced Sharing. I ticked
the box Share this folder and clicked on Permissions selected to give
Everyone Full Control. The Shared Icon shows against the folder and the
folder apperas under my laptop name in the Network folder. I can see this on
the other laptop over the wireless connection but as I mentioned when I click
 
A

Arvin Meyer [MVP]

In addition to Albert's comments that a wireless (or for that matter any
non-LAN connection), my experience is not only can it cause corruption, but
IT WILL CAUSE CORRUPTION. You may get away with it 100 times, or no times.
eventually a connection will be dropped during a write and the database will
corrupt. That's a 100% guarantee.

There is a way to connect remotely, or over WiFi, and that's by using a thin
client (i.e. a terminal services connection)
 
D

David W. Fenton

Both users will need full permissions to that directly (usually
including create rights, and file deletion rights).

Deletion rights are not required, but in most cases, not worth
removing. The only advantage is if you set your permissions on the
folder to deny deletions (or simply don't allow them -- it's
probably better to *not* deny them such that if you give delete
permission to some group, it won't be denied, since in NTFS
security, least permissive in regard to DENY wins) then a user won't
be able to delete the main data file. A user with no delete
permissions will also not be able to compact the file, either, but
you probably don't want them to try that, anyway.

The only downside of not deleting the LDB file is that if it gets
corrupted, it can cause problems until it's deleted.

Up through Access 2, the LDB file was always left in place, so by
not removing delete permission, you're just returning to the
environment in which Jet 2.x and earlier operated.
 
D

David W. Fenton

Can you advise me how I
make sure both users have full permissions, I thought I had done
this. I right clicked on the folder to be shared, then clicked on
Properties, then clicked on the tab Sharing and then on the button
Advanced Sharing. I ticked the box Share this folder and clicked
on Permissions selected to give Everyone Full Control. The Shared
Icon shows against the folder and the folder apperas under my
laptop name in the Network folder. I can see this on the other
laptop over the wireless connection but as I mentioned when I
click on it it says I dont have authorisation to open the
database!

There are two sets of permissions you have to set:

1. the permissions on the underlying folder.

2. the permissions on the SHARE of that underlying folder.

It sounds like you've done #2 but not #1.
 
C

chrisdp

Hi David, thank you for your comments, which I have read along with the ones
made by the others.

Could you tell me where I set the permissions on the underlying folder.

I have been running the access database on my desktop for 3 years and had it
so could be shared by two laptops on the wirelss network. This has been
working fine and I have nad no crruption issues during this time. The problem
I have is that I need to make my laptop the main one where the database is
kept and the other laptop needs access to it but I can't remember how I set
it up on the desktop! What I do remember is that it wasn't particulary
difficult at the time...but it seems to be now!!

I am currently trying to see how I did do it on my desktop. The reason for
the need to change where it is is because the desktop is now old and is no
longer really needed as the laptops fufull all our needs.

once again thanks for your comments
Chris
 
D

David W. Fenton

Could you tell me where I set the permissions on the underlying
folder.

In Windows Explorer, right click on a folder you want to share and
choose PROPERTIES from the context menu.

Assuming you're not running in WinXP's brain-dead stupid "simple
networking" mode, you will see that there are two tabs, SHARING and
SECURITY. The first applies to the share, and has a security button
on it. The SECURITY tab applies to the underlying folder, and if you
experiment, you'll quickly see that changing the security settings
from the SHARING tab has no effect on the settings on the SECURITY
tab.
I have been running the access database on my desktop for 3 years
and had it so could be shared by two laptops on the wirelss
network. This has been working fine and I have nad no crruption
issues during this time.

You are very, very lucky.
The problem
I have is that I need to make my laptop the main one where the
database is kept and the other laptop needs access to it but I
can't remember how I set it up on the desktop! What I do remember
is that it wasn't particulary difficult at the time...but it seems
to be now!!

I am currently trying to see how I did do it on my desktop. The
reason for the need to change where it is is because the desktop
is now old and is no longer really needed as the laptops fufull
all our needs.

You really need to switch to wired networking if you want to use
Access safely.
 
C

chrisdp

thanks for that, thats what I had done. So for some strange reason even
though it is set as a shared folder and appears in the network it still wont
open on the other laptop. It was seemingly wuite easy when I set it up 3
years ago. The desktop I set it up in was on XP and the two laptops are on
Vista.

I will work something else out, maybe with wire, which seems to defeat
having set up a wireless network! Is Microsoft aware of this situation, if
not is there a way to let them know so something can be done about it.

If anyone wants to reply please do, particulary one of the Microsoft MVP's,
I appreciate the input so far but you may be like me by now, which is a
little tired of the whole affair.

I'm off for a beer!

regards
Chris
 
D

David W. Fenton

thanks for that, thats what I had done. So for some strange reason
even though it is set as a shared folder and appears in the
network it still wont open on the other laptop. It was seemingly
wuite easy when I set it up 3 years ago. The desktop I set it up
in was on XP and the two laptops are on Vista.

Is there a software firewall running on the server machine? If so,
maybe its settings have changed and it's blocking access.
I will work something else out, maybe with wire, which seems to
defeat having set up a wireless network!

If the share is not accessible across the WiFi connection, it's
unlikely to magically become available when connected by wire.
Is Microsoft aware of this situation, if
not is there a way to let them know so something can be done about
it.

I don't think your problems have anything to do with Microsoft. You
have a network configuration issue that's causing the problem and
you just haven't tracked down the cause.

Security software/firewalls quite commonly cause this issue, and the
settings get changed on the fly all the time. Try turning off the
firewall temporarily and see if you can connect. If so, then you've
identified the problem, and just need to figure out how to properly
configure your firewall.
 
C

chrisdp

thanks David, yes I have a firewall set up so I'll check the setting out and
see what happens if I turn it off.

I fully agree with you that if I the Access database is being blocked via
the wireless connection then it is very likely to be blocked even if I use a
wire to connect the laptops.

What I meant by 'is Mircosoft aware' was to do with the issue that sharing
an Access database using wireless is likely to cause corruption. I wasnt
aware of this when I set it up and I'm sure many others wont be either, so it
would be better if they knew. Out of interest does the corruption just affect
the Access database or the whole system it is on?

I will let you know if I succeed in getting it to work or not.

regards
Chris
 
D

David W. Fenton

What I meant by 'is Mircosoft aware' was to do with the issue that
sharing an Access database using wireless is likely to cause
corruption. I wasnt aware of this when I set it up and I'm sure
many others wont be either, so it would be better if they knew.
Out of interest does the corruption just affect the Access
database or the whole system it is on?

Of course Microsoft is aware, but there's no reason for them to give
any other advice than what they give now, and that is that you need
a reliable network connection. A *wire* connection can be flakey
enough to be unusable, but the way in which WiFi works, with
automatic roaming usually turned on, and radio interference from
non-WiFi devices constantly degrading the signal, WiFi is very
shaky.

It's like you had a short in your network cable and when you rocked
your chair back just so, it would disconnect. That unreliability of
a wired network causes just as many problems with Access as the
unreliable WiFi network, it's just that you have more control over
the wired network -- you're not sharing bandwidth with all your
neighbors' WiFi networks, nor with their baby monitors, microwaves,
cordless phones and cable TV repeaters. All of those are things that
are known to interfere with WiFi to one degree or another because
they either share the same unregulated radio spectrum in which WiFi
operates (baby monitors, TV repeaters, cordless phones), or they can
produce radio interference in the relevant frequency (microwave
ovens).

There is nothing MS can do to make a WiFi network sufficiently
reliable for Access to be safe. Nor can MS fix a defective wired
network -- these things are outside their purview.

But an unreliable network is well-documented in MS's Knowledge Base
as cause of problems with Access. This is just more of the same, but
substantially more severe than is usually encountered with wired
networks, which usually work or they don't. We all know perfectly
well from using it regularly that WiFi comes in and out all the
time. This is not a problem for buffered content (streaming media)
nor for most Internet-based activities (email, web browsing) because
the former is buffered precisely because there can be drops in the
signal, and the latter because the whole network is set up to retry.

The key difference with Access is bound data editing in stateful
forms combined with the requirements of a file-based multi-user
database system. Those things together make Access/Jet/ACE the
canary in the coal mine, revealing both major and minor network
insufficiencies.
 
C

chrisdp

okeydokey, thanks for explaining that to me. I understand the situation with
using wifi and will look at other ways to share the database as it is a key
part to running our business, as we record the contact we have with our
customers on it. I have been using access for a good 10 or 12 years, pretty
much since it first came out. Maybe I need to learn how to create something
on a website to hold the data. I'm just reading an article about 10 reasons
to turn your Access applications into Web-based applications but I'm sure
there are issues related to doing this!!

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=340

thanks for all the advice
Chris
 
D

David W. Fenton

I understand the situation with
using wifi and will look at other ways to share the database as it
is a key part to running our business, as we record the contact we
have with our customers on it. I have been using access for a good
10 or 12 years, pretty much since it first came out. Maybe I need
to learn how to create something on a website to hold the data.
I'm just reading an article about 10 reasons to turn your Access
applications into Web-based applications but I'm sure there are
issues related to doing this!!

One alternative for a small office is to use one of the WTS-like
products designed to run on WinXP Pro. I forget the name, as I've
never used it, but have thought that if I had a client whose
infrastructure did not justify a dedicated server running Windows
server (the versions that can run WTS are more expensive than, say,
SBS), I'd look into it, i.e., beefing up an older machine with RAM
and then installing a WTS alternative.

I think Arvin used to recommend something. Can you chime in on that,
Arvin?

Converting to a web app is simply asking for all sorts of problems,
as well as sacrificing all the advantages of Access. There are
easier and cheaper ways to get around the problems Access has with
wireless networks than chucking your Access app in favor of a
web-based replacement.
 
C

Chris DP

ok I will check that out, thanks. Hopefully, Avrin will make a comment
regarding this.

Can you let me know if the corruption that is caused, by sharing an Access
database over a wifi conection, just affect the Access database or the whole
computer system? I'm asking because the whole reason I'm having to sort this
out is because my desktop computer, which hosted the database, is in being
fixed as it was not firing up properly. This got to the point where it
wouldnt even come on, could this have been due to the corruption or is it
likley this is due to some other issue. The desktop is being checked out on
Friday.

cheers
Chris
 
D

David W. Fenton

Hopefully, Avrin will make a comment
regarding this.

It wasn't Arvin, but Steve Schapel who has mentioned it in another
thread. The program is WinConnect Server
http://www.thinsoftinc.com/product_thin_client_winconnect_server_xp.a
spx .

Arvin has spoken favorably of it, which as good a recommendation as
you're going to get.
Can you let me know if the corruption that is caused, by sharing
an Access database over a wifi conection, just affect the Access
database or the whole computer system?

Only the Access database.
I'm asking because the whole reason I'm having to sort this
out is because my desktop computer, which hosted the database, is
in being fixed as it was not firing up properly. This got to the
point where it wouldnt even come on, could this have been due to
the corruption or is it likley this is due to some other issue.
The desktop is being checked out on Friday.

It's likely due to something else (I'd put the estimate at 99.99%).
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

chrisdp said:
Maybe I need to learn how to create something
on a website to hold the data. I'm just reading an article about 10 reasons
to turn your Access applications into Web-based applications but I'm sure
there are issues related to doing this!!
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=340

Indeed that might have a lot of benefits for part of your app
especially if you start having folks working from home or elsewhere.
Mind you a starting point would be to upsize the data to SQL Server
first which would likely make the wireless connection much less likely
to corrupt the Access BE.]

Note that I said part of your app. Just the portion facing the
regular users.. Leave the rest of the app, which always runs on the
local network, in Access Or rather leave the entire app in Access
as using a rich client is almost always a better, faster means of
accessing the data compared to a web browser.

Tony
 
C

Chris DP

thanks Tony, I'll check it out. I just got my desktop back from being fixed,
the power supply had failed. I have the Access database on the in the Shared
Folder and I am now able to open the it, and edit records, from the 2 laptops
we have on the same wireless network. As I said right at the start of my
messages I set this up 3 years ago and have been using it this way without
any issues since then. It seems strange that no one has said how this can be
done as my intial question was exactly that. I need to recreated the set up
on one of the 2 laptops so both could use the database whilst the desktop was
being fixed. I mentioned that I didnt know how I set it up 3 years ago but
thought that someone else may have done the same and could remind me. I will
look into it further and will post a reply to everyone if I work out what I
did. regards Chris

Tony Toews said:
chrisdp said:
Maybe I need to learn how to create something
on a website to hold the data. I'm just reading an article about 10 reasons
to turn your Access applications into Web-based applications but I'm sure
there are issues related to doing this!!
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=340

Indeed that might have a lot of benefits for part of your app
especially if you start having folks working from home or elsewhere.
Mind you a starting point would be to upsize the data to SQL Server
first which would likely make the wireless connection much less likely
to corrupt the Access BE.]

Note that I said part of your app. Just the portion facing the
regular users.. Leave the rest of the app, which always runs on the
local network, in Access Or rather leave the entire app in Access
as using a rich client is almost always a better, faster means of
accessing the data compared to a web browser.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
Granite Fleet Manager http://www.granitefleet.com/
 
J

John W. Vinson

I have the Access database on the in the Shared
Folder and I am now able to open the it, and edit records, from the 2 laptops
we have on the same wireless network. As I said right at the start of my
messages I set this up 3 years ago and have been using it this way without
any issues since then.

You have been very, very lucky, and/or your wireless network is extremely
stable, reliable and free of radio interference.

You're on thin ice. Really!
 

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