How do you crop grouped objects?

[Maidy]

Having finally figured out how to group two pictures (why the nightmare of
having to drag things to a drawing canvas? What happened to the old "select,
right-click, group and done"?!) I now need to crop the grouped pictures.
Cropping them first is the only option but it is not what I need to do!!!!

Any thoughts or advice before the laptop is thrown through a window?

Many thanx!

 

[Bob Buckland ?:-\)]

Hi Maidy,

Office 2007 introduced a new graphic engine, Escher 2. It's features are fully implemented in Excel and Powerpoint, but only
partially implemented in Word 2007 (one of the reasons that the new style 'WordArt' is available in Excel/Powerpoint but not in Word
<g>).

Basically, Escher 2 (new engine) items can't be grouped in Word 2007 and Escher 1 (legacy engine) items can't be grouped to Escher
1 items (they don't 'talk' to each other).

If you're working a Word 2007 .docx/.docm file then

A. Escher 2 handles Inserted Items such as
Pictures
Connector Lines (Insert=>Shape=>Lines)
SmartArt
Shape Styles
Picture styles
Charts
These group A items show 3d-white pearl sizing handles or blue acetate frames.

B. Escher 1 (legacy engine) handles Inserted items such as
Shapes (except connectors/lines)
Content contained in a New Drawing (Canvas)
These group B items show flat-blue sizing handles.

If you're in legacy/compatibiility mode (saving as Word 97-2003 document) then
Group A items (except Connectors) change to an Escher 1 (legacy) types so you can group them together.

When you Insert a Drawing Canvas in a Word 2007 .docx/.docm it creates an Escher 1 'island' in the Word 2007 document so that you
get the behavior of the Escher 1 features inside of the drawing canvas.

Charts use the legacy chart engine, rather than the Office 2007 Escher 2 one and Office 2007 unique featueres, SmartArt and
Word2007-Equations, content controls aren't available to be inserted in the Drawing canvas.

Items in a drawing canvas can be dragged out of the Drawing Canvas into the document and they retain their legacy properties, but
if they are copied and pasted from the canvas to the document the default behavior is generally to reapply the Office 2007 basic
behavior.


==============
Having finally figured out how to group two pictures (why the nightmare of
having to drag things to a drawing canvas? What happened to the old "select,
right-click, group and done"?!) I now need to crop the grouped pictures.
Cropping them first is the only option but it is not what I need to do!!!!

Any thoughts or advice before the laptop is thrown through a window?

Many thanx! >>
--

Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*

 

[Bob Buckland ?:-\)]

Hi Maidy,

Generally, you can crop pictures, but not Drawing Objects and you can't crop multiple selected separate pictures.

When you drag pictures outside of a drawing canvas they're Picture Objects. If you group them in the canvas they convert to Drawing
Objects.

When you group them the group becomes a drawing Object (watch the change in Tab titles for Tools change when you group picture
items.)

To make it a croppable picture item, select the group, then use Ctrl+C or Ctrl+X to put the group on the clipboard. Then on the
Home Tab use
Paste=>Paste Special to see what format is highlighted and while there select a picture format, such as Enhanced Metafile, to
paste the group back into the document (or drawing canvs) and then crop. The drawing canvas can be handy for having cropped and
uncropped items kept together as a drawing canvas collection [group].

============
Having finally figured out how to group two pictures (why the nightmare of
having to drag things to a drawing canvas? What happened to the old "select,
right-click, group and done"?!) I now need to crop the grouped pictures.
Cropping them first is the only option but it is not what I need to do!!!!

Any thoughts or advice before the laptop is thrown through a window?

Many thanx!>>
--

Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*

 

[Keith Howell]

A quick work around could be to place 4 rectangles filled with white and
'no-line' on the edges and then group them with the objects

 

[Bob Buckland ?:-\)]

Hi Keith,

In Word 2007 you are no longer able to group Autoshapes with Objects, and Pictures are objects.

Inserted Pictures, either individually or multi selected/groups are handled internally as
'Microsoft Office[2007] Graphic Objects' while
autoshapes are
'MS Office[legacy] Drawing Objects'.'

The two types don't mix and they can't be grouped together. You can create a Word 2003 'island' within a Word 2007 page by using
Insert Tab=>Shape=>New Drawing Canvas
where the 'parts' have the same legacy properties (i.e. you can group or align or distribute evenly, Pictures and Shapes.

Word 2003 and 2007 have both 'known' that Inserted pictures are 'objects', the difference being is that in Word 2003, Word treats
them as 'pictures' when you select more than one, but in Word 2007 as soon as you shift click on two inserted pictures they are now
'one object' and don't play nice with their neighbors <g>.

For comparison:

In Word 2003:

A1. Insert=>Picture=>From File and choose a JPG.

A2. Right click, choose 'Format Picture and set
Layout to 'in front of text'.

A3. Use Ctrl+C to copy the picture to the clipboard then use
Edit=>Paste Special
and note that the picture is listed as
MS Office Drawing Object.

A4. Use Ctrl+V to paste a duplicate of the picture then drag them apart.

A5. Hold the shift key and click on each picture.

A6. Right click and you should see Format=>Picture

A7. Use Ctrl+C to copy the combined pictures to the clipboard

A8. Use Edit=>Paste Special
and note that the combined item is the same type
as in step #3.

A9. From the Drawing Toolbar, insert a rectangle Autoshape.

A10. With the shape selected use Ctrl+C to copy to the clipboard.

A11. Use Edit=>Paste Special
and note that the shape is also seen by Word as a
MS Office Drawing Object

A12. Shift Click the Shape and both pictures,
right click and use Grouping=>Group.

In Word 2007 (Oil & Water)

B1. Insert Tab=>Picture and choose a JPG

B2. Right click, choose 'Text Wraping' and set
to 'in front of text'. (note though that
in the right click menu there is a
'Format Picture' choice.

B3. Use Ctrl+C to copy the picture to the clipboard then use
Home tab=>Paste=>Paste Special
and note that the picture is listed as
Microsoft Office Graphic Object.

B4. Use Ctrl+V to paste a duplicate of the picture then drag them apart.

B5. Hold the shift key and click on each picture.

B6. Right click and you note there is no longer a
'Format Picture' choice, but 'Format Object'
and that there is no 'Grouping' choice.

B7. Note that on the 'Picture Tools' tab that the
'Grouping' tool is greyed out (as these are objects).
You can resize, drag, etc the selected items but you can't
'lock' them as a group.

B8. Insert Tab=>Shapes insert a rectangle Autoshape.

B9. With the shape selected use Ctrl+C to copy to the clipboard.

B10. Use Home Tab=>Paste=>Paste Special
and note that the shape is also seen by Word as a
MS Office Drawing Object (legacy item)

B11. Select the shape then hold the Shift key & try to group with the picture objects. It doesn't work.


There are several workarounds.

One common one is to use
Save As and save as Wd97-2003 file type to flip all of the graphics to Word 2003 behavior then after manipulating use Office
Button=>Convert to turn on again the Word 2007 behaviors. It can have side effects with other document features.

Another is to use Insert Tab=>Shapes=>New Drawing Canvas as described above.

Once items are created in the drawing canvas, if you drag them back into the Word 2007 document, they retain their Word 2003 type
identity.

While Word 2007 implemented part of the Office 2007 'Escher 2' graphics engine, it's not entirely clear if this behavior, where
graphic types switch by simply clicking on two of the, is intentional or an oversight in the program that keeps them from being able
to be worked as sets. Word still presents a 'Picture Tools' tab in Word 2007 (i.e. there isn't an 'Objects Tool'.

==============
A quick work around could be to place 4 rectangles filled with white and
'no-line' on the edges and then group them with the objects >>

 

[Keith Howell]

Hi Bob,

You have made me realise it is time for me to bow out. I have been putting
off moving to 2007 because 2003 has worked for me and I have been subscribing
to the 'If it ain't broke don't fix it' school. I created
www.drawingwithword.com to keep my mind active when I was made redundant on
my 60th birthday and I hope it has been of use to some folk. I shall try to
find somewhere to park it just in case it is still of interest to 'stick in
the muds' like me.

It as been an interesting 2 or 3 years and I know I have upset a couple of
folk along the way, albeit unintentionally, but any advice I have offered has
all been in the spirit to which this forum subscribes

I have had so much trouble with malware of late that I have bought a Mac in
the hopes that it will prove less of a problem (in the short term anyway) and
am slowly getting to grips with that - who knows what it will bring.

All the best

Keith

Hi Keith,

In Word 2007 you are no longer able to group Autoshapes with Objects, and Pictures are objects.

Inserted Pictures, either individually or multi selected/groups are handled internally as
'Microsoft Office[2007] Graphic Objects' while
autoshapes are
'MS Office[legacy] Drawing Objects'.'

The two types don't mix and they can't be grouped together. You can create a Word 2003 'island' within a Word 2007 page by using
Insert Tab=>Shape=>New Drawing Canvas
where the 'parts' have the same legacy properties (i.e. you can group or align or distribute evenly, Pictures and Shapes.

Word 2003 and 2007 have both 'known' that Inserted pictures are 'objects', the difference being is that in Word 2003, Word treats
them as 'pictures' when you select more than one, but in Word 2007 as soon as you shift click on two inserted pictures they are now
'one object' and don't play nice with their neighbors <g>.

For comparison:

In Word 2003:

A1. Insert=>Picture=>From File and choose a JPG.

A2. Right click, choose 'Format Picture and set
Layout to 'in front of text'.

A3. Use Ctrl+C to copy the picture to the clipboard then use
Edit=>Paste Special
and note that the picture is listed as
MS Office Drawing Object.

A4. Use Ctrl+V to paste a duplicate of the picture then drag them apart.

A5. Hold the shift key and click on each picture.

A6. Right click and you should see Format=>Picture

A7. Use Ctrl+C to copy the combined pictures to the clipboard

A8. Use Edit=>Paste Special
and note that the combined item is the same type
as in step #3.

A9. From the Drawing Toolbar, insert a rectangle Autoshape.

A10. With the shape selected use Ctrl+C to copy to the clipboard.

A11. Use Edit=>Paste Special
and note that the shape is also seen by Word as a
MS Office Drawing Object

A12. Shift Click the Shape and both pictures,
right click and use Grouping=>Group.

In Word 2007 (Oil & Water)

B1. Insert Tab=>Picture and choose a JPG

B2. Right click, choose 'Text Wraping' and set
to 'in front of text'. (note though that
in the right click menu there is a
'Format Picture' choice.

B3. Use Ctrl+C to copy the picture to the clipboard then use
Home tab=>Paste=>Paste Special
and note that the picture is listed as
Microsoft Office Graphic Object.

B4. Use Ctrl+V to paste a duplicate of the picture then drag them apart.

B5. Hold the shift key and click on each picture.

B6. Right click and you note there is no longer a
'Format Picture' choice, but 'Format Object'
and that there is no 'Grouping' choice.

B7. Note that on the 'Picture Tools' tab that the
'Grouping' tool is greyed out (as these are objects).
You can resize, drag, etc the selected items but you can't
'lock' them as a group.

B8. Insert Tab=>Shapes insert a rectangle Autoshape.

B9. With the shape selected use Ctrl+C to copy to the clipboard.

B10. Use Home Tab=>Paste=>Paste Special
and note that the shape is also seen by Word as a
MS Office Drawing Object (legacy item)

B11. Select the shape then hold the Shift key & try to group with the picture objects. It doesn't work.


There are several workarounds.

One common one is to use
Save As and save as Wd97-2003 file type to flip all of the graphics to Word 2003 behavior then after manipulating use Office
Button=>Convert to turn on again the Word 2007 behaviors. It can have side effects with other document features.

Another is to use Insert Tab=>Shapes=>New Drawing Canvas as described above.

Once items are created in the drawing canvas, if you drag them back into the Word 2007 document, they retain their Word 2003 type
identity.

While Word 2007 implemented part of the Office 2007 'Escher 2' graphics engine, it's not entirely clear if this behavior, where
graphic types switch by simply clicking on two of the, is intentional or an oversight in the program that keeps them from being able
to be worked as sets. Word still presents a 'Picture Tools' tab in Word 2007 (i.e. there isn't an 'Objects Tool'.

==============
A quick work around could be to place 4 rectangles filled with white and
'no-line' on the edges and then group them with the objects >>

 

[Maidy]

Thanks to both Bob and Keith for their responses!

Bob - I am most impressed with the detail of your step-by-step guides but a
little too apprehensive to try them yet - will report back later!

Keith - Don't let Word 07 get you down - you should have a new guide ready
by the time you're 70 (I daresay we'll be on another new version of Word by
then - let's hope it's not as self conflicting as this one appears to be!)

Next question - Why oh why did they make it so awkward?!

Thanx again, Maidy