IMAP and Outlook

[IMAP Angela]

When I purchased Office 2003, I was excited about being able to use Outlook
to consolidate my tasks into one program -- it's nice to not have separate
calendar, email, address book, etc. programs running at once. However, it
seems that Outlook simply has not been designed in an IMAP friendly way.

I have seen other complaints and it seems that Microsoft really doesn't have
a good answer. I simply don't understand why the IMAP user has been
completely ignored in the development of this software. It's amazing that
the FREE software Thunderbird is so much better.

Just for the record, the specific complaints I have are:
1. Annoying recurring messages that `Your IMAP server has closed the
connection.' This does not happen with ANY other email software products I
have used.

2. To get a copy of sent messages on my server (the entire point of IMAP is
for everything to be stored on the server), I had to set up a rule to have
Outlook save a copy of sent messages into a folder on my server.

3. Deleted messages aren't truly deleted until I explicitly tell Outlook to
purge them from the server. (I have now added a button to my toolbar to be
able to do this, but really, shouldn't the software be set up in a
user-friendly way to begin with?)

As indicated, I have found fixes for 2 and 3, but 1 is driving me crazy and
will likely result in my not using Outlook at all. If the program is not
designed for IMAP users, then that should be clearly stated in advertising
materials. Otherwise, these problems need to be addressed!!

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/com...4754a214d&dg=microsoft.public.outlook.general

 

[Brian Tillman]

1. Annoying recurring messages that `Your IMAP server has closed the
connection.' This does not happen with ANY other email software
products I have used.

I don't have this problem with Outlook and an IMAP server. I suspect
influences outside of Outlook, since it's not a problem within Outlook, per
se, or I and others would be experiencing it as well.

2. To get a copy of sent messages on my server (the entire point of
IMAP is for everything to be stored on the server), I had to set up a
rule to have Outlook save a copy of sent messages into a folder on my
server.

I personally don't see this as a bug or problem. True, Outlook uses a
different paradigm that other IMAP clients, but there's nothing inherently
"bad" about that.

3. Deleted messages aren't truly deleted until I explicitly tell
Outlook to purge them from the server. (I have now added a button to
my toolbar to be able to do this, but really, shouldn't the software
be set up in a user-friendly way to begin with?)

That's dictated by the IMAP protocols. It is REQUIRED of conforming MAP
clients to behave this way (i.e., separate the MARK FOR DELETE action from
the PURGE action). If you have experience with a client that does NOT do
this, then I will contend that client has the problem.

As indicated, I have found fixes for 2 and 3, but 1 is driving me
crazy and will likely result in my not using Outlook at all. If the
program is not designed for IMAP users, then that should be clearly
stated in advertising materials. Otherwise, these problems need to
be addressed!!

There are some things in how Outlook handles IMAP that I would do
differently if I had written it, but if you don't like how it works, make
suggestions to Microsoft (like it appears you've attempted with your post).

 

[Dustin]

When I purchased Office 2003, I was excited about being able to use Outlook
to consolidate my tasks into one program -- it's nice to not have separate
calendar, email, address book, etc. programs running at once. However, it
seems that Outlook simply has not been designed in an IMAP friendly way.

I have seen other complaints and it seems that Microsoft really doesn't have
a good answer. I simply don't understand why the IMAP user has been
completely ignored in the development of this software. It's amazing that
the FREE software Thunderbird is so much better.

Microsoft needs to take a look at Apple's "mail.app" program. It's IMAP
support is far better than Outlooks, which is pretty bad.

Just for the record, the specific complaints I have are:
1. Annoying recurring messages that `Your IMAP server has closed the
connection.' This does not happen with ANY other email software products I
have used.

Hmmm.... I don't have this problem. Guess I'm lucky then huh.

2. To get a copy of sent messages on my server (the entire point of IMAP is
for everything to be stored on the server), I had to set up a rule to have
Outlook save a copy of sent messages into a folder on my server.

Yes, something MUST BE DONE about this. When I click SEND or SAVE it
should save it too the remote Sent and Draft folders automatically. It
should not save it locally like it does.

3. Deleted messages aren't truly deleted until I explicitly tell Outlook to
purge them from the server. (I have now added a button to my toolbar to be
able to do this, but really, shouldn't the software be set up in a
user-friendly way to begin with?)

Since I have a huge amount of IMAP space I rarely need to delete
anything. Though anything deleted from the "Deleted Messages" folder
should be instantly removed from the server.

As indicated, I have found fixes for 2 and 3, but 1 is driving me crazy and
will likely result in my not using Outlook at all. If the program is not
designed for IMAP users, then that should be clearly stated in advertising
materials. Otherwise, these problems need to be addressed!!

I don't know about issue 1. I agree you shouldn't be notified of the
disconnection. Especially since Outlook hardly uses it.

 

[Brian Tillman]

Yes, something MUST BE DONE about this. When I click SEND or SAVE it
should save it too the remote Sent and Draft folders automatically. It
should not save it locally like it does.

I disagree.

Since I have a huge amount of IMAP space I rarely need to delete
anything. Though anything deleted from the "Deleted Messages" folder
should be instantly removed from the server.

IMAP clients that mimic the behavior of the Deleted Items folder in Outlook
are doing just that: mimicking. IMAP protocols simply mark for deletion or
purge already marked messages. Any other behavior is strictly not part of
the IMAP paradigm.

 

[Dustin]

IMAP clients that mimic the behavior of the Deleted Items folder in
Outlook are doing just that: mimicking. IMAP protocols simply mark for
deletion or purge already marked messages. Any other behavior is
strictly not part of the IMAP paradigm.

I've noticed that no clients seem to abide by any standards when it
comes to IMAP. The only constant is the Inbox folder, the other folders
are up to the client. For example, my "deleted" folder is named "Deleted
Messages." Of course thunderbird expects this folder to be named "trash"
and trying to delete anything with thunderbird gives you an error.
Obviously there needs to be a way to designate which folders are for
what for each client otherwise IMAP will never work.

The IMAP proticals are obviously in need of some revision. Fine, when
you delete a message from an IMAP server it should be marked as deleted.
But the client should automatically perform a purge then on the next
message check. Regardless it should not show messages marked for
deletion, unless otherwise told so. Like a filesystem, it does not need
to show files that have been marked "deleted."

Is there a good IMAP program for Windows? I thought the idea of IMAP was
to keep everything on the server. Only a cache is kept locally. No one
uses IMAP probably because of the lack of standards though it's pretty
clear that IMAP is supperior to POP. You may or may not disagree but I
certainly perfer IMAP over POP.

 

[Dustin]

2. To get a copy of sent messages on my server (the entire point of IMAP is
for everything to be stored on the server), I had to set up a rule to have
Outlook save a copy of sent messages into a folder on my server.

How do you set up such a rule, because I'm not sure how to limit it to
one folder for one account. It only applies the rule for incoming mail.
Which is not what I want.

 

[Brian Tillman]

I've noticed that no clients seem to abide by any standards when it
comes to IMAP. The only constant is the Inbox folder, the other
folders are up to the client. For example, my "deleted" folder is
named "Deleted Messages." Of course thunderbird expects this folder
to be named "trash" and trying to delete anything with thunderbird
gives you an error. Obviously there needs to be a way to designate
which folders are for what for each client otherwise IMAP will never
work.

IMAP doesn't even HAVE the concept of a "deleted items" folder, no matter
what name a particular client may give it. It doesn't exist in the IMAP
protocols. Items to be deleted remain in the their original folders, marked
as such, and are not moved.

The IMAP proticals are obviously in need of some revision. Fine, when
you delete a message from an IMAP server it should be marked as
deleted. But the client should automatically perform a purge then on
the next message check.

I completely disagree. IMAP deleted items should never go away until you
specifically tell the server to purge them.

Regardless it should not show messages marked
for deletion, unless otherwise told so. Like a filesystem, it does
not need to show files that have been marked "deleted."

Them hide them. Click View>Arrange By>Current View and check "Hide Messages
Marked for Deletion".

Is there a good IMAP program for Windows? I thought the idea of IMAP
was to keep everything on the server. Only a cache is kept locally.

And that's exactly what Outlook does.

No one uses IMAP probably because of the lack of standards though
it's pretty clear that IMAP is supperior to POP. You may or may not
disagree but I certainly perfer IMAP over POP.

There are VERY clear standards for IMAP interaction between a client and
server. Those standards, however, don't dictate the entire client
presentation and shouldn't.

 

[Brian Tillman]

How do you set up such a rule, because I'm not sure how to limit it to
one folder for one account. It only applies the rule for incoming
mail. Which is not what I want.

To get Outlook to save copies of your sent mesages to the IMAP server, first
disable Outlook's option to save in the Sent Items folder. Then create a
rule that saves a copy of every sent message to the folder where you'ld like
them to be on the IMAP server.

 

[Dustin]

To get Outlook to save copies of your sent mesages to the IMAP server,
first disable Outlook's option to save in the Sent Items folder. Then
create a rule that saves a copy of every sent message to the folder
where you'ld like them to be on the IMAP server.

Call me an idiot, but i can't find where you create such a rule for
"saved" messages. It only allows me to perform rules on the inbox.

 

[Brian Tillman]

Call me an idiot, but i can't find where you create such a rule for
"saved" messages. It only allows me to perform rules on the inbox.

Run the Rules Wizard. Click New Rule. Select "Start from a blank rule",
select "Check messages after sending" and click Next. If you want your rule
to apply to all outgoing messages, click Next again. Otherwise, select the
conditions you want and then click Next. The rest is left as an exercise
for the reader.