Imported styles not being applied automatically

G

gwh

Version: 2004 Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) Processor: Intel Hi everyone,

I've imported some styles from one template into another template. The destination template already had a style name the same as the one coming from the source template but because I wanted to use the incoming style I overrode the one in the destination file.

The text in the destination file was already tagged with the style named normal and is being formatted with a font style of Arial. The source style called normal that I imported, has a different style definition with a different font name and size. I thought that when I imported it into the destination file, that all the text already tagged with "normal" would update and change to the new incoming definition but it stayed the same. I have to manually click in each paragraph and force the new style before it will update.

Since it's a really long document, this is going to be really tedious so I wondered if anyone knew of an easier way to get this working?

Appreciate any advice.
 
J

John McGhie

You are correct, what you thought would happen is what "should" have
happened.

Unfortunately, your document has had direct formatting overrides applied to
the Normal style, so when you changed the underlying style definition, the
appearance of the text did not change.

You now need to get rid of the direct overrides. There are two quick ways
of doing it:

1) Select all of the text in the document and hit Command + Option + q,
then Control + Spacebar.

These are the "ResetPara and ResetFont commands, which will instantly set
the entire document to the formatting of the underlying styles.

2) Use the Find/Replace command to search for the style "Normal" and to
replace it with the style "Normal". Make very sure that the Find What and
Replace With boxes are empty, or you will wipe out the text!

This second method changes only the paragraphs set with Normal style.
Effectively it "re-applies" Normal style to those paragraphs.

This whole issue gives you a good illustration of why we recommend that you
don't use Normal Style for formatting text. Word uses Normal style for a
large number of default purposes, and these days we recommend reserving
Normal style for Word internal purposes. Use "Body Text" for ordinary
paragraphs.

Hope this helps

Version: 2004 Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) Processor: Intel Hi
everyone,

I've imported some styles from one template into another template. The
destination template already had a style name the same as the one coming from
the source template but because I wanted to use the incoming style I overrode
the one in the destination file.

The text in the destination file was already tagged with the style named
normal and is being formatted with a font style of Arial. The source style
called normal that I imported, has a different style definition with a
different font name and size. I thought that when I imported it into the
destination file, that all the text already tagged with "normal" would update
and change to the new incoming definition but it stayed the same. I have to
manually click in each paragraph and force the new style before it will
update.

Since it's a really long document, this is going to be really tedious so I
wondered if anyone knew of an easier way to get this working?

Appreciate any advice.

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410 | mailto:[email protected]
 
C

CyberTaz

Normally I'd side with John on this but I noticed a bit of an inconsistency
in your terminology :)

You refer to copying the styles from one *template* to another then indicate
the problem as being that the formatting in a *document* didn't change as
expected. You can do anything you wish with a template -- including trashing
it completely -- but it will not have any effect on previously created
documents that were based on that template. IOW, documents retain no
connection to the template on which they're based.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
 
G

gwh

Thanks for the replies,

I've followed the instructions on replacing the styles via a find and replace which has worked. Also noted the comment on not using the Normal style and have since changed this to "body text" as suggested.
 
J

John McGhie

When I referred to "document", I actually meant template as I was using the
template to format the text. I'm only doing this because I couldn't find a way
to import styles from one document into another. It seems I can only import
styles into a template.

Not true. If you use Format>Styles...Organiser, you can import styles into
any document you like.

However, it is important to understand that a document makes no further
reference to its template following the instant of creation. At document
creation, the entire style table is copied from the template into the
document, and operates separately after that instant.

All of the styles in use in a document are stored IN the document, in the
local document style table.

To change the styles in a document, you must either update the local style
using Format>Style, or import them using Organiser. But you must change the
copy of the style held in the local document or the change will have no
effect.
Could I ask another question? For a long time now, I'm finding that my Word
files are behaving very erratically. For example, when I make a change to a
certain paragraph, all the paragraphs in the document take on the same change.

That's "Automatically update style" applied to the style of the paragraph
you are changing. With that turned on, any change to the paragraph
formatting will be replicated into the style definition stored in the local
style table in the document, and from there, flow to every other paragraph
in the document formatted with that style.

Go to Format>Style and switch it OFF :)

It should be impossible to switch "Automatically update" on for Normal
style, but this was a change made in a recent version of Word. Documents
made in older versions may still have that switched on, and if they have,
things become quite entertaining!

It also helps your long-term sanity if you get out of the habit of applying
direct formatting. The first time you need any specific kind of formatting,
create or modify a style to contain it. Check "Add to Template" when you
do, then you've got it forever.

If you discipline yourself to "Create a style, every time" by the end of a
month, you will be more than ten times faster at formatting documents, your
documents will be 100 per cent consistent, and your Word files will be more
than twice as reliable. All good outcomes...
To me, this points to a corrupt file

No: That specific one is an inappropriate user setting.
however I'm having other problems with
the program generally, ie. the default font in the font menu is showing up as
Times New Roman, however if I start to type, the font that appears is in some
other sans serif font.

You have some direct formatting stuck in your Normal template.
Close ALL other documents (make sure of this, or the cure won't work...)

Open your Normal Template, turn on the paragraph marks (Show/Hide...) so
that you can see what you are doing, and add a couple of characters to the
blank paragraph.

Open the Toolbox and apply the Office theme. Hover over the themes to see
their names. The Office one should be the top left one.

Now drop down the "Fonts" drop-down and choose the "Arial/Times New Roman"
(Office Classic) theme setting.

Go to the Styles segment, drop-down the disclosure triangle on the Normal
style and check that the Font has now changed to Times New Roman.

Now carefully select ALL of the paragraph INCLUDING the paragraph marker,
and hit Control + Spacebar, then Command + Option + q.

That removes all the direct formatting.

Now remove the junk characters you added, and Save/Close the Normal template
(quit Word and re-start to make quite sure the old Normal is not saved in
memory).

In Word 2008, the imposition of the very useless "Themes" mechanism provides
a global override on all your styles. The Theme settings can override any
part of all the styles in the document. It's a mess: I do hope they take it
away soon. Usually Themes cause no problems because nobody knows they are
there, but if they get mis-set, they can contribute to the entertainment
level in unfortunate ways. I have yet to find a legitimate use for them...
I wondered if trashing the preferences would work or is there another way I
can fix this? If trashing the preferences would be helpful, could you point
out where these exist on mac OS 10.5.8?

Pointing to preferences and resources on someone else's computer is a risky
game, because many of these files can be placed wherever YOU damn well like
:) Generally, we try to tell you how to find them, wherever you have put
them.

Hope this helps

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410 | mailto:[email protected]
 
G

gwh

Thanks so much John for such a detailed and helpful response. I'll definitely put to use all your suggestions.
 
C

CyberTaz

One follow-up to John's reply: In order to import to/from other than a
Template using Organizer you simply need to select the type of file from the
'Enable:' list at the top of the dialog which appears when you hit
Organizer's 'Open File' button.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
 
G

gwh

Thanks for the additional information.

I'm trying to go through the steps that John suggested.
Open the Toolbox and apply the Office theme. Hover over the themes to > see their names. The Office one should be the top left one.

I go to the view menu and choose Toolbox. When this appears, I see that there are 4 tabs: 1) Scrapbook, 2) Reference Tools, 3) Compatibility Report, 4) Projects. So there doesn't seems to be anywhere in the toolbox where you can change the Office theme.

So I went to the Format menu and chose Theme... When this opened, there was a list of themes but no "Office" theme as you suggested.

Can you tell me what might be happening as I still can't fix the problem.
 
J

John McGhie

Sorry, my bad: I thought you were using Word 2008. In Word 2004, the
"Theme" doesn't matter.

Just ignore the two paragraphs I wrote about the Theme: in Word 2004 it
doesn't matter. Do the rest of it and your template should come good.

Sorry about that...


Thanks for the additional information.

I'm trying to go through the steps that John suggested.


I go to the view menu and choose Toolbox. When this appears, I see that there
are 4 tabs: 1) Scrapbook, 2) Reference Tools, 3) Compatibility Report, 4)
Projects. So there doesn't seems to be anywhere in the toolbox where you can
change the Office theme.

So I went to the Format menu and chose Theme... When this opened, there was a
list of themes but no "Office" theme as you suggested.

Can you tell me what might be happening as I still can't fix the problem.

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410 | mailto:[email protected]
 
G

gwh

Ok I went back and followed the instructions (disregarding the Themes part) but when I quit and restarted the program, and then opened a new document I'm still getting the same problem. The font menu says Times New Roman but when I type something, it's coming out as some sans serif font. I don't know what's happening.

Any further suggestions would really be appreciated.
 
J

John McGhie

OK: Open FontBook and choose "Select Duplicates" then "Resolve Duplicates".

Now shut the machine down until the power goes off.

Now re-start: any difference?

Just check for me: In Format>Style, the font of Normal style is ... ?

In Word>Preferences>Edit, "Match font with keyboard" and "Keep track of
formatting" are both OFF?

And you opened your Normal template and selected the whole of the blank
paragraph and set it into TNR?

And you saved and checked that the template you saved is the one Word is
actually using?

Hope this helps


Ok I went back and followed the instructions (disregarding the Themes part)
but when I quit and restarted the program, and then opened a new document I'm
still getting the same problem. The font menu says Times New Roman but when I
type something, it's coming out as some sans serif font. I don't know what's
happening.

Any further suggestions would really be appreciated.

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410 | mailto:[email protected]
 
G

gwh

Sorry for not getting back to this sooner - I was a bit short on time.

I've since opened FontBook however there's no "Select Duplicates" option. There was however a "Select all" option so I did this and then chose "Resolve duplicates". I then shut down the machine and restarted but with no difference happening.

If I go into Format > Style and then click 'Modify' for the Normal style, I see that it's set to Times New Roman, however the character preview is showing a sans serif font.

These settings were both On but I've since unchecked them.

Yes

Yes

Not sure if you have any further suggestions but if yes, I'd be grateful.
 
J

John McGhie

Better email me a short sample of that document and I'll take a look.

Either there's a different font applied by direct formatting, or your TNR
font is not working!

Cheers


Sorry for not getting back to this sooner - I was a bit short on time.

I've since opened FontBook however there's no "Select Duplicates" option.
There was however a "Select all" option so I did this and then chose "Resolve
duplicates". I then shut down the machine and restarted but with no difference
happening.

If I go into Format > Style and then click 'Modify' for the Normal style, I
see that it's set to Times New Roman, however the character preview is showing
a sans serif font.


These settings were both On but I've since unchecked them.


Yes

Not sure if you have any further suggestions but if yes, I'd be grateful.

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410 | mailto:[email protected]
 
G

gwh

Thanks for the offer to look at the file but it's happening with all new documents not just the file I was working on. I may need to reinstall Word perhaps? Is there a way to only uninstall Word, instead of the entire Office suite of programs?
 
J

John McGhie

If it's happening with all new documents, then the setting is coming from
your document template.

You want to send me a sample of that? I need to see this issue: replacing
the Normal.dotm template should have fixed this.

No point in reinstalling Word: this setting is not coming from a file that
exists on the Office CD, so you can uninstall/reinstall until you are black
in the face, all you do is risk making the problem worse.

On Windows, reinstalling wipes the settings in the registry, which often
fixes the problem. In Mac, the equivalent settings are held in preference
files, which reinstalling never touches.

But THIS setting is not held in a preference (to the best of my knowledge).
It's coming from the template the document is created from.

Hope this helps


Thanks for the offer to look at the file but it's happening with all new
documents not just the file I was working on. I may need to reinstall Word
perhaps? Is there a way to only uninstall Word, instead of the entire Office
suite of programs?

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410 | mailto:[email protected]
 
C

CyberTaz

Re-installing Word is not the answer [and rarely is]. The issue you're
having is neither caused nor corrected by anything on the Office DVD.

Quit all MS programs, then launch Font Book again & run its Validate Fonts
routine this time. (What was the result of running the Resolve Duplicates
routine, btw?) If any fonts are indicated as problematic proceed
accordingly. I'm not sure that alone will correct the problem but it should
help sort things out. Then go to the User/Library/Preferences/Microsoft
folder & delete the file named 'Office Font Cache (11)'. Repair Disk
Permissions using Apple's Disk Utility (or equivalent) & restart your Mac.

Assuming the problem with new documents continues, I believe the real
culprit is your Normal template. Everything you're describing suggests that
it has become corrupted due to some of the previous activity.

Quit all Office apps. You'll find the Normal template in:
User/Documents/Microsoft User Data. The file name is simply 'Normal' with no
extension. For the moment simply rename that file, then launch Word. It will
build a new Normal template so it will take a few seconds longer to launch
than you're accustomed to. See if things in a new document behave better.

[Also: To change the default font it isn't necessary to actually 'open' the
Normal template. You can change it in the Format> Font dialog by making your
choices then clicking the 'Default' button or by modifying the Normal Style
& checking the 'Add to template' (not 'Automatically update') checkbox.]

HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
 
C

CyberTaz

Hi John;


replacing
the Normal.dotm template should have fixed this.

GWH actually is using 2004, but moreover I don't see anywhere in the thread
where replacing the Normal template was suggested (or tried). I took the
liberty of suggesting same a few minutes ago.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
 
J

John_McGhie_[MVP]

Good catch! I was skim-reading the thread {Blush...} and I thought he had
replaced the Normal template...


Hi John;




GWH actually is using 2004, but moreover I don't see anywhere in the thread
where replacing the Normal template was suggested (or tried). I took the
liberty of suggesting same a few minutes ago.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410 | mailto:[email protected]
 
G

gwh

CyberTaz: I tried all your suggestions but with no luck.

I did however change the font in the normal template from Times New Roman to Times and this seems to have fixed the problem. Perhaps Time New Roman had become corrupt.

Anyhow, I'm happy to go with Times as the default font for now.

Thank you both for all the help.
 

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