Impossible to have Proj Server 2003 and SPS 2003 on the same server without also having a separate W

[Engelbert]

I have until now assumed that Project Server 2003 would work with SPS 2003
instead of with WSS via using the WSS functions included with SPS 2003.

I have also assumed that using SPS 2003 with Project Server 2003 on the same
server is NOT a good idea.

I've just read a back thread in which Gary Chefetz writes

"both Project Server and Portal Server require WSS. They must be installed
on separate virtual servers, however. I strongly recommend against
installing Project Server and Portal Server on the same machine."

My question is about the first part of this. Namely when gary writes "*They*
must be installed on different virtual servers" (by which I know he means
VMWare or Microsoft Virtual Server as that's further down in the thread)
does he mean 'Project Server and SPS 2003' or 'SPS 2003 and WSS' ?

In other words do I have

1. Proj Server 2003 + SPS 2003 on the main machine
and
2. WSS (as used by Project Server) as a VM machine

?

As I wrote I'm very clear on the unsuitability of having SPS and Proj Server
on the same machine and will be pushing hard for it, but I also need to be
clear on what is installed (in total) on the server if the customer insists
anyway despite severe warnings on having both products on one server (with
the SQL Server on a second server).

The Small Farm Installation Guide for Project Server doesn't seem to mention
SPS 2003 at all...

Engelbert (who knows standalone WSS well but that's about it)

 

[Rolly Perreaux]

Hi Engelbert,

If you know WSS then your half-way ther to knowing SPS as SPS uses WSS
as the basic platform. In fact wen you install SPS it's a 2 step
process. First it does is install WSS and then second all the remaining
components (the big bells n whistles) are installed.

One "big gotcha" to remember is if you start with a configured
installation of WSS and decide to install SPS on the same server it will
uninstall your configured WSS and then re-install WSS and then the
remaining components. Learned that one the hard way ;-)
But now there's a KB article on how to do this properly

But to answer your question, YES you can install Project Server 2003 on
SharePoint Portal Server 2003.

Here's a KB article how to do it:
How to install SharePoint Portal Server 2003 and Project Server 2003 on
the same server
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=840701

Good Luck!
And let us know how it turns out.

--
Rolly Perreaux, PMP, MCSE
Project Server Trainer/Consultant

TriMagna Corporation
Microsoft Gold Partner
http://www.trimagna.com

 

[Engelbert]

Unfortunately I already knew both your first two paras - in fact I've used
roughly the same text many times when replying in the sharepoint newsgroups.

I've also seen the KB article. (Which seems to me to be a "don't do it, but
if you really must" of the kind they usually save for "it's good only for
test environments").

So I was *really* asking about the text I quoted from Gary C. which is still
unclear to me.

(Perhaps I shouldn't have added the "I only know WSS" bit - I do know the
basics of SPS 2003 as well ... Sorry about that as it tempted you into
spending time on SPS 2003 installs info.)

Engelbert

 

[Rolly Perreaux]

No worries Englebert

In an ideal world it would be great to have one server for one
application. However, with a lot of organizations placing budget
constraints on IT Departments this may not be possible.

The Key to installing Project Server with SharePoint Portal Server is
the hardware. Especially if crawling and indexing are implemented.
Obviously depending on the size and configuration of the deployment for
either of these applications will have a direct effect.

But some of the conflicts addressed in the KB article can be countered
with the right hardware or configuration. For example:

- Excessive memory usage
- Excessive paging to the hard disk drive

Both of these conflicts can be addressed using more RAM.

- Service performance degradation
- One service delaying the start of the other service

This is typically a problem when restarting the server and can be
countered by increasing the time of a particular service or adding
additional CPUs or off-loading a service on to it's own server.

So IMHO you CAN install both on the same server as long as you have the
correct hardware and configuration.

Hope this helps...

Cheers,

--
Rolly Perreaux, PMP, MCSE
Project Server Trainer/Consultant

TriMagna Corporation
Microsoft Gold Partner
http://www.trimagna.com

 

[Engelbert]

Thanks Rolly. It needed to be spelt out for me as I've been concentrating on
other bits of the puzzle.

Have you any notes about possible problems in following that KB article ?

Are there any places to be extremey careful and is there anything they've
missed in it ?

Any other words of wisdom ? I've seen authentication only of users with
domain addresses mentioned for instance in connection with Project itself as
being a wise move ...

Engelbert

 

[Rolly Perreaux]

Hi Engelbert,

The only thing that I would add from the KB article is that they didn't
create a Project Server web site for PWA. In Step 2 they asked you to
create a web site with the Home Directory at C:\Inetpub\Projectserver.
But this web site is for the Project Server SharePoint Site and not for
Project Web Access. So I would create two IIS web sites and not just one
because you will encounter errors when you finalize the installation of
PWA.

I would make the Home Directory for these sites the following
Project Server PWA = C:\Inetpub\PS2003
Project Server SharePoint = C:\Inetpub\PSWSS

In regards to Authentication...
Windows Authentication will always be faster to logon as it doesn't need
to query the Project Server database to verify the Project Server
Authenticated Username and password. The default is mixed authentication
for PWA, so if you switch to only Windows Authentication It will change
default IIS authentication for the PWA web site to only Windows
Authentication. (removes Anonymous Access)

Also don't go cheap on the hardware? More RAM and Fast SCSI drives is
better for this situation.

Can I safely assume that the SQL Server is on another beefy server
hosting the database for SharePoint Portal Server?

Hope this all makes sense?

--
Rolly Perreaux, PMP, MCSE
Project Server Trainer/Consultant

TriMagna Corporation
Microsoft Gold Partner
http://www.trimagna.com

 

[Engelbert]

The only thing that I would add from the KB article

Great. Just what I needed !!

Can I safely assume that the SQL Server is on another >beefy server

You (and I) can't assume "beefy server" for anything. If I can't find out
their server sizes before we go that'll be one of my first questions
("where's the beef?").

Thanks again,

Engelbert

(How beefy ought the SQL Server server to be? I've been thinking that only
the Project Server / SPS server needs to be beefy with lots of memory and
multi processors and the SQL Server could be normal size.)

 

[Rolly Perreaux]

Hi Engelbert,

Actually with deploying SharePoint Portal Server 2003, you need both
servers to be beefy. Again, depending on how large the deployment you
can anticipate a lot of SQL activity, especially if document versioning
is enabled.

Take a look at the SPS Capacity Planning at:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/assistance/HA011647621033.aspx

I would recommend looking at the medium farm scenario for hardware, but
swap out the Dual Pentium 4 CPUs with Dual Pentium Xeon processors and
doubling the RAM to 4 GB. Also (if you can) off-load the Indexing
Management component onto a separate server.

Hope this helps

Cheers,

--
Rolly Perreaux, PMP, MCSE
Project Server Trainer/Consultant

TriMagna Corporation
Microsoft Gold Partner
http://www.trimagna.com

 

[Engelbert]

I've just in fact read it through (sorry but there you go ...)

I quite fancy that sample configuration 2 is a good match to their
requirements and that (very nicely for my earlier suggestions) suggests
three servers ... (and that with WSS not SPS)

Meanwhile word has come back that instead of the empty third server I wanted
to put SPS on, they suggest a server that has CMS on it already.

Not exactly a great scenario with those two on the same server ... (If it's
at all possible)

Engelbert

 

[Rolly Perreaux]

Anything is possible. But putting SPS and Project Server on a server
that already has Content Management Server would be a BIG stretch.

Good Luck and let us know how it turns out

--
Rolly Perreaux, PMP, MCSE
Project Server Trainer/Consultant

TriMagna Corporation
Microsoft Gold Partner
http://www.trimagna.com

 

[Engelbert]

No it was

1. Server: Proj Server
2. Server: SQL Server
3. Server: SPS and CMS

still a stretch though.

Engelbert

 

[Gary L. Chefetz [MVP]]

Englebert:

What I meant by Virtual Server is a top level web site in IIS

 

[Engelbert]

Thanks Gary. I was confused because in a later message in the same thread
you said you meant by Virtual Server VMWares product - however that was in
reply to a follow-up question and your answer to that.

It's confusing when virtual server can be two different things !

Engelbert