Improving Word 2007

[Bob Winkler]

Are there any plans to revise, update, and improve Word 2007? I realize that
Microsoft put a great deal of time and effort into the product.
Unfortunately, the Office 2007 product suffers from numerous flaws and
problems in organization of the user interface. In speaking with my
colleagues in the education field, their verdict has been nearly unanimous,
don't upgrade to Office 2007. They frequently cite the updated menu system
as being confusing and inconsistent. e.g. One goes to the insert tab to
insert a bookmark but one must go to the references tab to insert a table of
contents. Both are insertions.

I appreciate your response.

THANKS!

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/com...d78bd1&dg=microsoft.public.word.docmanagement

 

[Graham Mayor]

There are no plans to change the ribbon in Word 2007. What may happen in
future versions is anyone's guess.
It is possible to edit the ribbon -
http://gregmaxey.mvps.org/Customize_Ribbon.htm and you can always add much
used tools to the QAT (Quick Access Toolbar)

--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>
Graham Mayor - Word MVP


<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>

 

[grammatim]

I've tried reading your Customize Ribbon essay before, and even if I
were to dare to try something, I get hung up on the very first
instruction: "Start the Office 2007 Custom UI Editor application."
There;s no such thing in Microsoft Office 2007 > Office Tools.

The only feature of the Ribbon that I use frequently that is in a very
bad place is the Table Borders button. Can that be moved from Table
Design to Table Layout? (There's even room for it under the two
Distribute buttons.)

 

[Greg Maxey]

Maybe you should try reading from the begining:

"In the examples that follow, I perform the customization using the Office
2007 Custom UI Editor and a Word VBA Template Add-In. I used this approach
because the Custom UI Editor automatically builds the Open Office XML file
relationships and makes them transparent to you the user, the approach
doesn't require any expensive additional developer's software like Visual
Studio, and any specialized customization involving ribbon callbacks can be
done using VBA.

The Office 2007 Custom UI Editor is available for free download from the
OpenXMLDeveloper.org: Custom UI Editor "

You have to download and install the editor before you can use it.

 

[CyberTaz]

Did you notice the prologue information that precedes the step-by-step:

The Office 2007 Custom UI Editor is available for free download from the
OpenXMLDeveloper.org: Custom UI Editor

HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[grammatim]

Nope!

Having it, however, would only make it easier to screw up an attempt
to move the Borders button from Design to Layout.

 

[Greg Maxey]

<Having it, however, would only make it easier to screw up an attempt
<to move the Borders button from Design to Layout.

So that which you do not understand, you scorn?

Yes it can be located on the Layout Tab. It can also be removed from the
Design tab. But since it does no harm there it can stay.

You can not edit built-in groups. You can however, hide built-in groups and
then recreate a custom group that contains the commands you want to show.
There are limitations however. For example, the Borders splitbutton that is
shown on the Design tab as part of the Table Styles group is sized "normall"
and shows a label. If you add a splitButton control e.g., TableBordersMenu
to a custom group using the size attibute "normal" then a label is not
shown. The only way to show a label on a splitButton control is to use the
size attribute "large." That's just the way it is.

The RibbonX is:

<customUI xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/01/customui">
<ribbon>

<contextualTabs>

<tabSet idMso="TabSetTableTools">

<tab idMso="TabTableToolsLayout">

<group idMso="GroupTableCellSize" visible="false" />

<group id="CustGrp" label="Cell Size" insertBeforeMso="GroupTableCellSize" >

<menu idMso="TableAutoFitMenu" size="large" />

<separator id="sep1" />

<box id="box1" boxStyle="vertical" >

<control idMso="TableRowHeight" />

<control idMso="TableColumnWidth" />

</box>

<separator id="sep2" />

<button idMso="TableRowsDistribute" />

<button idMso="TableColumnsDistribute" />

<splitButton idMso="TableBordersMenu" />

</group>

</tab>

</tabSet>

</contextualTabs>

</ribbon>

</customUI>

 

[grammatim]

<Having it, however, would only make it easier to screw up an attempt
<to move the Borders button from Design to Layout.

So that which you do not understand, you scorn?

No; I know that I don't have time to learn a programming language.

Yes it can be located on the Layout Tab.   It can also be removed from the
Design tab.  But since it does no harm there it can stay.

You can not edit built-in groups.  You can however, hide built-in groups and
then recreate a custom group that contains the commands you want to show.
There are limitations however. For example, the Borders splitbutton that is
shown on the Design tab as part of the Table Styles group is sized "normall"
and shows a label.  If you add a splitButton control e.g., TableBordersMenu
to a custom group using the size attibute "normal" then a label is not
shown.  The only way to show a label on a splitButton control is to usethe
size attribute "large."  That's just the way it is.

I have no idea what you just said -- for instance, what a
"splitbutton" is -- since you say it's normal and shows a label, but
also that a splitbutton can only show a label if it's large.

You can't have it both ways!

The RibbonX is:

What is a "RibbonX"?

You seem not to realize how much knowledge is involved in undertaking
this sort of programming. Everything that you mastered years ago is
completely unknown to the ordinary Word user.

<customUI xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/01/customui">
<ribbon>

<contextualTabs>

<tabSet idMso="TabSetTableTools">

<tab idMso="TabTableToolsLayout">

<group idMso="GroupTableCellSize" visible="false" />

<group id="CustGrp" label="Cell Size" insertBeforeMso="GroupTableCellSize" >

<menu idMso="TableAutoFitMenu" size="large" />

<separator id="sep1" />

<box id="box1" boxStyle="vertical" >

<control idMso="TableRowHeight" />

<control idMso="TableColumnWidth" />

</box>

<separator id="sep2" />

<button idMso="TableRowsDistribute" />

<button idMso="TableColumnsDistribute" />

<splitButton idMso="TableBordersMenu" />

</group>

</tab>

</tabSet>

</contextualTabs>

</ribbon>

</customUI>

If I were to copy and paste that -- somewhere -- would I get a Table
Borders button in the Table Layout tab? Where you say "visible =
false," does that mean the Cell Size button would go away?

 

[Greg Maxey]

No; I know that I don't have time to learn a programming language.

Then perhaps you should leave it to those that do. I will be happy to do
your ribbon customizations for you for a fee.

I have no idea what you just said -- for instance, what a "splitbutton"
is -- since you say it's normal and shows a label, but also that a
splitbutton can only show a label if it's large.

That's because you either didn't read the technical atricles linked from my
article on Ribbon Customization or you didn't understand what you did read.
A splitButton is a type of ribbon control. There are built-in splitbuttons
that are incorporated into built-in groups on the ribbon, there are built-in
pre-defined splitButtons that you can put in your own custom groups, and
there are custom splitButtons that you can create yourself (provided you
change your mind and find the time to do it).

There is a size attribute associated with most ribbon controls "normal" and
"large." The built-in splitButton "TableBordersMenu" that appears in the
built-in "Cell Size" group on the Table Design tab is size "normal" and
shows a label "Borders." However, if you put that control in in a custom
group and use the size attribute "normal" (or don't specify a size/normal is
default) then no label shows. You would have to specify size="large" to see
the label. That is just the way it is.

You can't have it both ways!

I'm not asking for it both ways. I'm not the one asking the questions. You
are.

You seem not to realize how much knowledge is involved in undertaking this
sort of programming. Everything that you mastered years ago is
completely unknown to the ordinary Word user.

No, I have a fairly good idea how much knowledge and effort is involved. I
expended that later in order to gain the former. I really haven't mastered
anything.. It is also safe to say that most techniques applied to brain
surgery is probably unknown to the ordinary person that wants to cut a
steak. What is an ordinary Word user?

If I were to copy and paste that -- somewhere -- would I get a Table
Borders button in the Table Layout tab?

Yes, that is the point of this whole exercise. Except you would get a
splitButton and it wouldn't have a label.

<Where you say "visible = > false," does that mean the Cell Size button
would go away?

Yes, the built-in GroupTableCellSize would appear to go away only to be
replaced with a custom group labeled "Cell Size" that contains all of the
controls in the built-in group plus a splitButton for applying table
borders.

The steps for doing that are contained in the article but I will repeat them
here.

Open Word.
Create a new template (call it whatever)
Close Word
Open the CustomUI Editor application
Using the UI Editor, open the template that you just created
Paste in the code. (Note: I am not certain that simply pasting in the code
will work. There may have been some formatting induced by pasting to the
newsgroup. You might try the "Validate" command in the Editor to check)
Save and close the template
Open Word and open the template.

I would e-mail you the template, but since it would come from me and I that
know you delete messages from me (or at least you say that do) I won't
bother.

Good luck.

 

[grammatim]

Then perhaps you should leave it to those that do.  I will be happy to do
your ribbon customizations for you for a fee.


That's because you either didn't read the technical atricles linked from my

Of course not. If they are "technical articles," they are addressed to
people who know how to program in whatever language they are about.

article on Ribbon Customization or you didn't understand what you did read.
A splitButton is a type of ribbon control.  There are built-in splitbuttons
that are incorporated into built-in groups on the ribbon, there are built-in
pre-defined splitButtons that you can put in your own custom groups, and
there are custom splitButtons that you can create yourself (provided you
change your mind and find the time to do it).

There you go again -- "a type of ribbon control."

There is a size attribute associated with most ribbon controls "normal" and
"large."  The built-in splitButton "TableBordersMenu" that appears in the
built-in "Cell Size" group on the Table Design tab is size "normal" and
shows a label "Borders."  However, if you put that control in in a custom
group and use the size attribute "normal" (or don't specify a size/normalis
default) then no label shows.  You would have to specify size="large"to see
the label.  That is just the way it is.

Then i don't know what you mean by "label." The button as it stands
shows the last-chosen Border item (Top, Left Side, whatever), and a
drop-down triangle for choosing the particular border item needed.

I'm not asking for it both ways.  I'm not the one asking the questions. You
are.


No, I have a fairly good idea how much knowledge and effort is involved.  I
expended that later in order to gain the former.  I really haven't mastered
anything..  It is also safe to say that most techniques applied to brain
surgery is probably unknown to the ordinary person that wants to cut a
steak.  What is an ordinary Word user?

One who creates documents by using the tools as provided, without
trying to mess with programming code.

Yes, that is the point of this whole exercise.  Except you would get a
splitButton and it wouldn't have a label.

<Where you say "visible = > false," does that mean the Cell Size button
would go away?

Yes, the built-in GroupTableCellSize would appear to go away only to be
replaced with a custom group labeled "Cell Size" that contains all of the
controls in the built-in group plus a splitButton for applying table
borders.

So it sounds like there would be exactly as many clicks to get at the
Table Borders command, only instead of the first click being on the
Table Design tab, it would be on the CellSize button instead. Thus the
problem would remain exactly the same!

The steps for doing that are contained in the article but I will repeat them
here.

Open Word.
Create a new template (call it whatever)
Close Word
Open the CustomUI Editor application
Using the UI Editor, open the template that you just created
Paste in the code.  (Note: I am not certain that simply pasting in the code
will work.  There may have been some formatting induced by pasting to the
newsgroup.  You might try the "Validate" command in the Editor to check)
Save and close the template
Open Word and open the template.

I would e-mail you the template, but since it would come from me and I that
know you delete messages from me (or at least you say that do) I won't
bother.

That means that either you once repeated a newsgroup posting in email,
or you sent me an insulting email off-list. I probably can't check,
since either way I would have deleted it.

 

[Ben M. Schorr - MVP (OneNote)]

Of course not. If they are "technical articles," they are addressed to
people who know how to program in whatever language they are about.

With all due respect it sounds to me like you're asking for
modifications to be made to the user interface. It's been pointed out
that it can be done; either by doing some programming or hiring somebody
to program for you. You clearly don't want to do the programming, which
is fine, so that leaves you with hiring somebody to do the programming
for you. If you don't want to do that either, then I guess you'll just
have to live with the UI as it is - at least for the time being.

Not everything can be changed by an end user without programming. It's
not entirely unlike your car...if you want to put gas in the tank, well
that's an easy task that any driver should be able to readily do. If
you want to change the color of your car well, you can probably do that
too - though it may not look all that good, depending upon your skill at
such things. If you want put in a different transmission though you're
either going to have to learn about cars and transmissions or find a
mechanic you can pay to do it for you. The average driver can fill the
gas tank, many people can change their own oil. Changing a transmission
or engine, however, is best left to professionals or people with a lot
of mechanical ability and the time/interest to learn how to do it
themselves.

Greg's given you instructions on how to make the change you're asking
for. If you'd rather not do it then you can have somebody to do it for
you or...


-Ben-
Ben M. Schorr, MVP
Roland Schorr & Tower
http://www.rolandschorr.com
http://www.officeforlawyers.com
Author - The Lawyer's Guide to Microsoft Outlook 2007:
http://tinyurl.com/5m3f5q

 

[grammatim]

With all due respect it sounds to me like you're asking for
modifications to be made to the user interface.  It's been pointed out
that it can be done; either by doing some programming or hiring somebody
to program for you.  You clearly don't want to do the programming, which
is fine, so that leaves you with hiring somebody to do the programming
for you.  If you don't want to do that either, then I guess you'll just
have to live with the UI as it is - at least for the time being.

I pointed out the ONE aspect of the current UI that I find oppressive
and asked if there's a way to fix it.

Not everything can be changed by an end user without programming.  It's
not entirely unlike your car...if you want to put gas in the tank, well
that's an easy task that any driver should be able to readily do.  If
you want to change the color of your car well, you can probably do that
too - though it may not look all that good, depending upon your skill at
such things.  If you want put in a different transmission though you're
either going to have to learn about cars and transmissions or find a
mechanic you can pay to do it for you.  The average driver can fill the
gas tank, many people can change their own oil.  Changing a transmission
or engine, however, is best left to professionals or people with a lot
of mechanical ability and the time/interest to learn how to do it
themselves.

Greg's given you instructions on how to make the change you're asking
for.  If you'd rather not do it then you can have somebody to do it for
you or...

No, Greg eventually revealed that the change I asked for cannot be
done -- the closest he could come was to move the control I wanted
moved to a different tab, to inside something else in the tab I wanted
it in, which is not an improvement at all: just as many clicks to get
at it. I might as well just put it on the QAT, which will soon enough
get so loaded that it won't all show at once, like a 2003 toolbar.

 

[Greg Maxey]

Of course not. If they are "technical articles," they are addressed to

people who know how to program in whatever language they are about.

No, they are addressed to anyone who wants to customizie thier own ribbon
and with the gumption to read them. I suppose that excludes you.

There you go again -- "a type of ribbon control."

Which of those five words is beyond your comprehension?

Then i don't know what you mean by "label." The button as it stands
shows the last-chosen Border item (Top, Left Side, whatever), and a
drop-down triangle for choosing the particular border item needed.

No. It is not a button. It is a splitButton and it shows a label
"Borders." Unlike the control above it which is a gallery and shows a label
"Shading."

One who creates documents by using the tools as provided, without trying
to mess with programming code.

Is there anything about the current ribbon configuration that prevents you
from creating an ordinary document? Would your definition imply that those
users who wish to become extraordinary need only apply themselves to
learning a new skill. Those "technical articles" are a good place to start.
There I go again.

So it sounds like there would be exactly as many clicks to get at the
Table Borders command, only instead of the first click being on the
Table Design tab, it would be on the CellSize button instead. Thus the
problem would remain exactly the same!

You didn't ask for click reduction. You stated and then asked:

The only feature of the Ribbon that I use frequently that is in a very bad
place is the Table Borders button. Can that be moved
from Table Design to Table Layout? (There's even room for it under the
two Distribute buttons.)

The answer again it yes. The ribbonX I provided you puts it under the two
Distribute buttons.

That means that either you once repeated a newsgroup posting in email, or
you sent me an insulting email off-list. I probably can't check,
since either way I would have deleted it.

If you had a shred of humility you would recognize that you were the
transgressor in that exchange and apologize publicly or privately. While my
tone in this current exchange may appear barbed, I think most would agree
that I have tried to help you. With that, I will leave you figure the
ribbon out for yourself, or continue to stew over it. Either way, I don't
really care.

 

[grammatim]

No, they are addressed to anyone who wants to customizie thier own ribbon
and with the gumption to read them.  I suppose that excludes you.


Which of those five words is beyond your comprehension?

"ribbon control, type of"

No.  It is not a button.  It is a splitButton and it shows a label
"Borders."  Unlike the control above it which is a gallery and shows a label
"Shading."

On my Ribbon, they appear identical: an icon, a word, and a down-
arrow. Hovering over the word "Shading" produces a screentip; hovering
over the word "Borders" produces nothing, but clicking on it would
cause whichever kind of border is shown in the icon to be applied to
the table. (It is, in fact, the last kind of border that was selected
from the dropdown.)

Is there anything about the current ribbon configuration that prevents you
from creating an ordinary document?  

No. But because I use tables very frequently, it would be far more
convenient if the Borders control were on the Layout tab, which I use
constantly, and not on the Design tab, which I use almost never.

Would your definition imply that those
users who wish to become extraordinary need only apply themselves to
learning a new skill.  Those "technical articles" are a good place to start.
There I go again.


You didn't ask for click reduction.  You stated and then asked:


The answer again it yes. The ribbonX I provided you puts it under the two
Distribute buttons.

But either in your last message or in Ben's message [in google groups,
it is not possible to view a posting outside the group of 10 in which
one is currently composing a message], it was stated that the code you
provided (apparently that group of lines, I now deduce, is called a
"ribbonX") would place the Borders control inside the CellSize
control, thus yielding absolutely no improvement in efficiency in
accessing it from the Layout tab when a border needs to be modified.

If you had a shred of humility you would recognize that you were the
transgressor in that exchange and apologize publicly or privately.  While my

You appear to be a grudge-holder. I have no memory whatsoever of the
event in question.

tone in this current exchange may appear barbed, I think most would agree
that I have tried to help you.  With that, I will leave you figure the
ribbon out for yourself, or continue to stew over it.  Either way, I don't
really care.

You did attempt to help. But your help is along the lines of handing a
Chilton manual to a driver with a cracked radiator. You seem not to
realize that you do in fact possess specialized knowledge that took
considerable time and effort (and probably instruction, as well as
background familiarity with computer programming) to master. It's as
if you asked me a question about typing Hebrew in Word and I offered
you a phonological analysis of the Hebrew language.

 

[Greg Maxey]

Grammatim,

But either in your last message or in Ben's message [in google groups, it
is not possible to view a posting outside the group of 10 in which
one is currently composing a message], it was stated that the code you
provided (apparently that group of lines, I now deduce, is called a
"ribbonX") would place the Borders control inside the CellSize control,
thus yielding absolutely no improvement in efficiency in
accessing it from the Layout tab when a border needs to be modified.

No, what was stated was:

"Yes, the built-in GroupTableCellSize would appear to go away only to be
replaced with a custom group labeled "Cell Size" that contains all of the
controls in the built-in group plus a
splitButton for applying table borders.'

Think of ribbon like a container that can hold tabs. Tab are container that
hold groups. Groups are containers that hold a variety of ribbon controls
(e.g., menus, buttons, splitButtons, toggleButtons, dropdowns, galleries,
etd).

As it stands, your Ribbon has a tab (actually a contextual tab called
"Layout"). In that tab there is a group labeled "Cell Size." That group
contains five controls 1) a menu named TabelAutoFitMenu, 2) a control named
TableRowHeight, 3) a control named TableColumnWidth, 4) a button named
TableRowsDistribute, and 5) a button named TableColumnsDistribute.

If I understand your original question. You asked: Can the "Table Borders"
button that is currently located on the Design tab be moved to the Table
Layout tab.

The answer is still yes.

You stated: (There's even room for it under the two Distribute buttons.)

I assumed that that is where you would like to see it.

The RibbonX code I posted originally does just that.

1. It hides the existing built-in control GroupTableCellSize. This is the
control that produces the group on your ribbon labeled "Cell Size." We hide
this control because like I said previously, you can't edit built-in
control.

2. It creates a new custom group labeled "Cell Size."

3. In that new group it places "six" controls 1) menu named
TabelAutoFitMenu, 2) a control named TableRowHeight, 3) a control named
TableColumnWidth, 4) a button named TableRowsDistribute, and 5) a button
named TableColumnsDistribute and finally 6) A splitButton named
"TableBordersMenu."

This sixth control is the same control that currently exists on the Design
tab that is labeled "Borders."

The only difference is that the label "Borders" is not shown if the
splitButton is sized "normal" in the RibbonX.

A picture is worth a thousand words. See:
http://gregmaxey.mvps.org/Control_size_normal.png and
http://gregmaxey.mvps.org/Control_size_large.png

You appear to be a grudge-holder. I have no memory whatsoever of the event
in question.

That must be why I am bending over backwards to help you now. You appear to
have a short memory.

You did attempt to help. But your help is along the lines of handing a
Chilton manual to a driver with a cracked radiator. You seem not to
realize that you do in fact possess specialized knowledge that took
considerable time and effort (and probably instruction, as well as
background familiarity with computer programming) to master. It's as
if you asked me a question about typing Hebrew in Word and I offered
you a phonological analysis of the Hebrew language.

No, I helped and I am still helping. The time and effort spent preparing
and publishing the the tips page that you compare to a Chilton's manual was
expended in an attempt to help others and spare them some of the time and
effort that I have spent (including you). I have had no instruction or
formal background familiarity with computer programing. I haven't really
mastered ribbon customization either. I do find it interesting. It was
that interest that motivated me to see if what you wanted on your ribbon
could be done. I like the old saw "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.
Teach a man to fish and eats for a lifetime." The tips page is my attempt
at teaching to fish. I have given you the fish (or I have certainly tried).
Would you like your fish poached, broiled, or fried?

<It's as if you asked me a question about typing Hebrew in Word and I
offered you a phonological analysis of the Hebrew language.

If I had and if you did, I would at least have the grace to say thank you.

No, they are addressed to anyone who wants to customizie thier own
ribbon and with the gumption to read them. I suppose that excludes
you.


Which of those five words is beyond your comprehension?

"ribbon control, type of"

No. It is not a button. It is a splitButton and it shows a label
"Borders." Unlike the control above it which is a gallery and shows
a label "Shading."

On my Ribbon, they appear identical: an icon, a word, and a down-
arrow. Hovering over the word "Shading" produces a screentip; hovering
over the word "Borders" produces nothing, but clicking on it would
cause whichever kind of border is shown in the icon to be applied to
the table. (It is, in fact, the last kind of border that was selected
from the dropdown.)

Is there anything about the current ribbon configuration that
prevents you from creating an ordinary document?

No. But because I use tables very frequently, it would be far more
convenient if the Borders control were on the Layout tab, which I use
constantly, and not on the Design tab, which I use almost never.

Would your definition imply that those
users who wish to become extraordinary need only apply themselves to
learning a new skill. Those "technical articles" are a good place to
start. There I go again.


You didn't ask for click reduction. You stated and then asked:


The answer again it yes. The ribbonX I provided you puts it under
the two Distribute buttons.

But either in your last message or in Ben's message [in google groups,
it is not possible to view a posting outside the group of 10 in which
one is currently composing a message], it was stated that the code you
provided (apparently that group of lines, I now deduce, is called a
"ribbonX") would place the Borders control inside the CellSize
control, thus yielding absolutely no improvement in efficiency in
accessing it from the Layout tab when a border needs to be modified.

If you had a shred of humility you would recognize that you were the
transgressor in that exchange and apologize publicly or privately.
While my

You appear to be a grudge-holder. I have no memory whatsoever of the
event in question.

tone in this current exchange may appear barbed, I think most would
agree that I have tried to help you. With that, I will leave you
figure the ribbon out for yourself, or continue to stew over it.
Either way, I don't really care.

You did attempt to help. But your help is along the lines of handing a
Chilton manual to a driver with a cracked radiator. You seem not to
realize that you do in fact possess specialized knowledge that took
considerable time and effort (and probably instruction, as well as
background familiarity with computer programming) to master. It's as
if you asked me a question about typing Hebrew in Word and I offered
you a phonological analysis of the Hebrew language.

...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 

[grammatim]

Grammatim,

But either in your last message or in Ben's message [in google groups,  it
is not possible to view a posting outside the group of 10 in which
one is currently composing a message], it was stated that the code you
provided (apparently that group of lines, I now deduce, is called a
"ribbonX") would place the Borders control inside the CellSize control,
thus yielding absolutely no improvement in efficiency in
accessing it from the Layout tab when a border needs to be modified.

No, what was stated was:

"Yes, the built-in GroupTableCellSize would appear to go away only to be
replaced with a custom group labeled "Cell Size" that contains all of the
controls in the built-in group plus a
splitButton for applying table borders.'

I never noticed that there was a bottom tab called "Cell Size" -- and
I find that the corner arrow on it just gives "Table Properties,"
which already has a great big button at the left!

Think of ribbon like a container that can hold tabs.  Tab are containerthat
hold groups.  Groups are containers that hold a variety of ribbon controls
(e.g., menus, buttons, splitButtons, toggleButtons, dropdowns, galleries,
etd).

Turns out that "Group" is a technical term for "bottom tab"!

As it stands, your Ribbon has a tab (actually a contextual tab called
"Layout").  In that tab there is a group labeled "Cell Size."  That group
contains five controls 1) a menu named TabelAutoFitMenu, 2) a control named
TableRowHeight, 3) a control named TableColumnWidth, 4) a button named
TableRowsDistribute, and 5) a button named TableColumnsDistribute.

If I understand your original question.  You asked: Can the "Table Borders"
button that is currently located on the Design tab be moved to the Table
Layout tab.

The answer is still yes.

You stated:    (There's even room for it under the two Distribute buttons.)

I assumed that that is where you would like to see it.
Indeed.

The RibbonX code I posted originally does just that.

(I still don't know what "RibbonX" is.)

1.  It hides the existing built-in control GroupTableCellSize.  This is the
control that produces the group on your ribbon labeled "Cell Size."  Wehide
this control because like I said previously, you can't edit built-in
control.

2.  It creates a new custom group labeled "Cell Size."

3.  In that new group it places "six" controls   1) menu named
TabelAutoFitMenu, 2) a control named TableRowHeight, 3) a control named
TableColumnWidth, 4) a button named TableRowsDistribute, and 5) a button
named TableColumnsDistribute and finally 6) A splitButton named
"TableBordersMenu."

This sixth control is the same control that currently exists on the Design
tab that is labeled "Borders."

The only difference is that the label "Borders" is not shown if the
splitButton is sized "normal" in the RibbonX.

A picture is worth a thousand words.  See:http://gregmaxey.mvps.org/Control_size_normal.pngandhttp://gregmaxey.mvps.org/Control_size_large.png

Either one of those would do just fine!

That must be why I am bending over backwards to help you now.  You appear to
have a short memory.


No, I helped and I am still helping.  The time and effort spent preparing
and publishing the the tips page that you compare to a Chilton's manual was
expended in an attempt to help others and spare them some of the time and
effort that I have spent (including you).  I have had no instruction or
formal background familiarity with computer programing.  I haven't really
mastered ribbon customization either.  I do find it interesting.  It was
that interest that motivated me to see if what you wanted on your ribbon
could be done.  I like the old saw "Give a man a fish and he eats for aday.
Teach a man to fish and eats for a lifetime."  The tips page is my attempt
at teaching to fish. I have given you the fish (or I have certainly tried).
Would you like your fish poached, broiled, or fried?

<It's as if you asked me a question about typing Hebrew in Word and I
offered you a phonological analysis of the Hebrew language.

If I had and if you did, I would at least have the grace to say thank you..

Indeed -- thank you for explaining it in an understandable way!

Tomorrow I'll see if I can get that download thing so I can try
implementing your solution.

"ribbon control, type of"

On my Ribbon, they appear identical: an icon, a word, and a down-
arrow. Hovering over the word "Shading" produces a screentip; hovering
over the word "Borders" produces nothing, but clicking on it would
cause whichever kind of border is shown in the icon to be applied to
the table. (It is, in fact, the last kind of border that was selected
from the dropdown.)

No. But because I use tables very frequently, it would be far more
convenient if the Borders control were on the Layout tab, which I use
constantly, and not on the Design tab, which I use almost never.

But either in your last message or in Ben's message [in google groups,
it is not possible to view a posting outside the group of 10 in which
one is currently composing a message], it was stated that the code you
provided (apparently that group of lines, I now deduce, is called a
"ribbonX") would place the Borders control inside the CellSize
control, thus yielding absolutely no improvement in efficiency in
accessing it from the Layout tab when a border needs to be modified.

That means that either you once repeated a newsgroup posting in
email, or you sent me an insulting email off-list. I probably can't
check,
since either way I would have deleted it.
If you had a shred of humility you would recognize that you were the
transgressor in that exchange and apologize publicly or privately.
While my

You appear to be a grudge-holder. I have no memory whatsoever of the
event in question.

You did attempt to help. But your help is along the lines of handing a
Chilton manual to a driver with a cracked radiator. You seem not to
realize that you do in fact possess specialized knowledge that took
considerable time and effort (and probably instruction, as well as
background familiarity with computer programming) to master. It's as
if you asked me a question about typing Hebrew in Word and I offered
you a phonological analysis of the Hebrew language.

...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 

[Greg Maxey]

I never noticed that there was a bottom tab called "Cell Size" -- and I

find that the corner arrow on it just gives "Table Properties,"
which already has a great big button at the left!

"Cell Size" is the label for one of the "groups" on the Table Layout tab.
The "corner arrow" you describe is called a "dialog box launcher."

<Turns out that "Group" is a technical term for "bottom tab"!

Yes, "group" is the term used to describe a top level collection of
controls on a ribbon tab. "Bottom tab" is something that you made up. I
guess? Still, you are learning!

Indeed.

We have a meeting of minds.

Indeed -- thank you for explaining it in an understandable way!

You're welcome.

Grammatim,

But either in your last message or in Ben's message [in google
groups, it is not possible to view a posting outside the group of
10 in which
one is currently composing a message], it was stated that the code
you provided (apparently that group of lines, I now deduce, is
called a "ribbonX") would place the Borders control inside the
CellSize control, thus yielding absolutely no improvement in
efficiency in
accessing it from the Layout tab when a border needs to be modified.

No, what was stated was:

"Yes, the built-in GroupTableCellSize would appear to go away only
to be
replaced with a custom group labeled "Cell Size" that contains all
of the
controls in the built-in group plus a
splitButton for applying table borders.'

I never noticed that there was a bottom tab called "Cell Size" -- and
I find that the corner arrow on it just gives "Table Properties,"
which already has a great big button at the left!

Think of ribbon like a container that can hold tabs. Tab are
container that
hold groups. Groups are containers that hold a variety of ribbon
controls (e.g., menus, buttons, splitButtons, toggleButtons,
dropdowns, galleries,
etd).

Turns out that "Group" is a technical term for "bottom tab"!

As it stands, your Ribbon has a tab (actually a contextual tab called
"Layout"). In that tab there is a group labeled "Cell Size." That
group
contains five controls 1) a menu named TabelAutoFitMenu, 2) a
control named
TableRowHeight, 3) a control named TableColumnWidth, 4) a button
named
TableRowsDistribute, and 5) a button named TableColumnsDistribute.

If I understand your original question. You asked: Can the "Table
Borders"
button that is currently located on the Design tab be moved to the
Table
Layout tab.

The answer is still yes.

You stated: (There's even room for it under the two Distribute
buttons.)

I assumed that that is where you would like to see it.
Indeed.

The RibbonX code I posted originally does just that.

(I still don't know what "RibbonX" is.)

1. It hides the existing built-in control GroupTableCellSize. This
is the
control that produces the group on your ribbon labeled "Cell Size."
We hide
this control because like I said previously, you can't edit built-in
control.

2. It creates a new custom group labeled "Cell Size."

3. In that new group it places "six" controls 1) menu named
TabelAutoFitMenu, 2) a control named TableRowHeight, 3) a control
named
TableColumnWidth, 4) a button named TableRowsDistribute, and 5) a
button
named TableColumnsDistribute and finally 6) A splitButton named
"TableBordersMenu."

This sixth control is the same control that currently exists on the
Design
tab that is labeled "Borders."

The only difference is that the label "Borders" is not shown if the
splitButton is sized "normal" in the RibbonX.

A picture is worth a thousand words.
See:http://gregmaxey.mvps.org/Control_size_normal.pngandhttp://gregmaxey.mvps.org/Control_size_large.png

Either one of those would do just fine!

That must be why I am bending over backwards to help you now. You
appear to
have a short memory.


No, I helped and I am still helping. The time and effort spent
preparing
and publishing the the tips page that you compare to a Chilton's
manual was
expended in an attempt to help others and spare them some of the
time and
effort that I have spent (including you). I have had no instruction
or
formal background familiarity with computer programing. I haven't
really
mastered ribbon customization either. I do find it interesting. It
was
that interest that motivated me to see if what you wanted on your
ribbon
could be done. I like the old saw "Give a man a fish and he eats for
a day.
Teach a man to fish and eats for a lifetime." The tips page is my
attempt
at teaching to fish. I have given you the fish (or I have certainly
tried).
Would you like your fish poached, broiled, or fried?

<It's as if you asked me a question about typing Hebrew in Word and I
offered you a phonological analysis of the Hebrew language.

If I had and if you did, I would at least have the grace to say
thank you.

Indeed -- thank you for explaining it in an understandable way!

Tomorrow I'll see if I can get that download thing so I can try
implementing your solution.

On Dec 8, 8:05 am, "Greg Maxey"
Of course not. If they are "technical articles," they are
addressed to people who know how to program in whatever language
they are about.

No, they are addressed to anyone who wants to customizie thier own
ribbon and with the gumption to read them. I suppose that excludes
you.

There you go again -- "a type of ribbon control."

Which of those five words is beyond your comprehension?

"ribbon control, type of"

Then i don't know what you mean by "label." The button as it
stands shows the last-chosen Border item (Top, Left Side,
whatever), and a drop-down triangle for choosing the particular
border item needed.

No. It is not a button. It is a splitButton and it shows a label
"Borders." Unlike the control above it which is a gallery and shows
a label "Shading."

On my Ribbon, they appear identical: an icon, a word, and a down-
arrow. Hovering over the word "Shading" produces a screentip;
hovering over the word "Borders" produces nothing, but clicking on
it would
cause whichever kind of border is shown in the icon to be applied to
the table. (It is, in fact, the last kind of border that was
selected from the dropdown.)

One who creates documents by using the tools as provided, without
trying to mess with programming code.

Is there anything about the current ribbon configuration that
prevents you from creating an ordinary document?

No. But because I use tables very frequently, it would be far more
convenient if the Borders control were on the Layout tab, which I
use constantly, and not on the Design tab, which I use almost never.

Would your definition imply that those
users who wish to become extraordinary need only apply themselves
to learning a new skill. Those "technical articles" are a good
place to start. There I go again.

So it sounds like there would be exactly as many clicks to get at
the Table Borders command, only instead of the first click being
on the Table Design tab, it would be on the CellSize button
instead. Thus the problem would remain exactly the same!

You didn't ask for click reduction. You stated and then asked:

The only feature of the Ribbon that I use frequently that is in a
very bad place is the Table Borders button. Can that be moved
from Table Design to Table Layout? (There's even room for it under
the two Distribute buttons.)

The answer again it yes. The ribbonX I provided you puts it under
the two Distribute buttons.

But either in your last message or in Ben's message [in google
groups,
it is not possible to view a posting outside the group of 10 in
which
one is currently composing a message], it was stated that the code
you provided (apparently that group of lines, I now deduce, is
called a "ribbonX") would place the Borders control inside the
CellSize
control, thus yielding absolutely no improvement in efficiency in
accessing it from the Layout tab when a border needs to be modified.

That means that either you once repeated a newsgroup posting in
email, or you sent me an insulting email off-list. I probably
can't check,
since either way I would have deleted it.

If you had a shred of humility you would recognize that you were
the transgressor in that exchange and apologize publicly or
privately. While my

You appear to be a grudge-holder. I have no memory whatsoever of the
event in question.

tone in this current exchange may appear barbed, I think most would
agree that I have tried to help you. With that, I will leave you
figure the ribbon out for yourself, or continue to stew over it.
Either way, I don't really care.

You did attempt to help. But your help is along the lines of
handing a Chilton manual to a driver with a cracked radiator. You
seem not to realize that you do in fact possess specialized
knowledge that took considerable time and effort (and probably
instruction, as well as background familiarity with computer
programming) to master. It's as
if you asked me a question about typing Hebrew in Word and I offered
you a phonological analysis of the Hebrew language.

grammatim wrote:
On Dec 7, 5:29 pm, "Greg Maxey"
No; I know that I don't have time to learn a programming
language.

Then perhaps you should leave it to those that do. I will be
happy to do your ribbon customizations for you for a fee.

I have no idea what you just said -- for instance, what a
"splitbutton" is -- since you say it's normal and shows a label,
but also that a splitbutton can only show a label if it's large.

That's because you either didn't read the technical atricles
linked from my

Of course not. If they are "technical articles," they are
addressed to people who know how to program in whatever language
they are about.

article on Ribbon Customization or you didn't understand what you
did read. A splitButton is a type of ribbon control. There are
built-in splitbuttons that are incorporated into built-in groups
on the ribbon, there are built-in pre-defined splitButtons that
you can put in your own custom groups, and there are custom
splitButtons that you can create yourself (provided you change
your mind and find the time to do it).

There you go again -- "a type of ribbon control."

...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 

[Greg Maxey]

Oops,

Yes you are right. There is a dialog box launcher associated with the "Cell
Size" group. I overlooked that. The revised RibbonX that will include the
dialog box launcher is shown below:

<customUI xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/01/customui">
<ribbon>
<contextualTabs>
<tabSet idMso="TabSetTableTools">
<tab idMso="TabTableToolsLayout">
<group idMso="GroupTableCellSize" visible="false" />
<group id="CustGrp" label="Cell Size"
insertBeforeMso="GroupTableCellSize" >
<menu idMso="TableAutoFitMenu" size="large" />
<separator id="sep1" />
<box id="box1" boxStyle="vertical" >
<control idMso="TableRowHeight" />
<control idMso="TableColumnWidth" />
</box>
<separator id="sep2" />
<button idMso="TableRowsDistribute" />
<button idMso="TableColumnsDistribute" />
<splitButton idMso="TableBordersMenu" />
<dialogBoxLauncher >
<button idMso="TablePropertiesDialog" />
</dialogBoxLauncher >
</group>
</tab>
</tabSet>
</contextualTabs>
</ribbon>
</customUI>

I don't know all of the background, but RibbonX is just a name used for the
XML script that is written to define ribbon customization.

Grammatim,

But either in your last message or in Ben's message [in google
groups, it is not possible to view a posting outside the group of
10 in which
one is currently composing a message], it was stated that the code
you provided (apparently that group of lines, I now deduce, is
called a "ribbonX") would place the Borders control inside the
CellSize control, thus yielding absolutely no improvement in
efficiency in
accessing it from the Layout tab when a border needs to be modified.

No, what was stated was:

"Yes, the built-in GroupTableCellSize would appear to go away only
to be
replaced with a custom group labeled "Cell Size" that contains all
of the
controls in the built-in group plus a
splitButton for applying table borders.'

I never noticed that there was a bottom tab called "Cell Size" -- and
I find that the corner arrow on it just gives "Table Properties,"
which already has a great big button at the left!

Think of ribbon like a container that can hold tabs. Tab are
container that
hold groups. Groups are containers that hold a variety of ribbon
controls (e.g., menus, buttons, splitButtons, toggleButtons,
dropdowns, galleries,
etd).

Turns out that "Group" is a technical term for "bottom tab"!

As it stands, your Ribbon has a tab (actually a contextual tab called
"Layout"). In that tab there is a group labeled "Cell Size." That
group
contains five controls 1) a menu named TabelAutoFitMenu, 2) a
control named
TableRowHeight, 3) a control named TableColumnWidth, 4) a button
named
TableRowsDistribute, and 5) a button named TableColumnsDistribute.

If I understand your original question. You asked: Can the "Table
Borders"
button that is currently located on the Design tab be moved to the
Table
Layout tab.

The answer is still yes.

You stated: (There's even room for it under the two Distribute
buttons.)

I assumed that that is where you would like to see it.
Indeed.

The RibbonX code I posted originally does just that.

(I still don't know what "RibbonX" is.)

1. It hides the existing built-in control GroupTableCellSize. This
is the
control that produces the group on your ribbon labeled "Cell Size."
We hide
this control because like I said previously, you can't edit built-in
control.

2. It creates a new custom group labeled "Cell Size."

3. In that new group it places "six" controls 1) menu named
TabelAutoFitMenu, 2) a control named TableRowHeight, 3) a control
named
TableColumnWidth, 4) a button named TableRowsDistribute, and 5) a
button
named TableColumnsDistribute and finally 6) A splitButton named
"TableBordersMenu."

This sixth control is the same control that currently exists on the
Design
tab that is labeled "Borders."

The only difference is that the label "Borders" is not shown if the
splitButton is sized "normal" in the RibbonX.

A picture is worth a thousand words.
See:http://gregmaxey.mvps.org/Control_size_normal.pngandhttp://gregmaxey.mvps.org/Control_size_large.png

Either one of those would do just fine!

That must be why I am bending over backwards to help you now. You
appear to
have a short memory.


No, I helped and I am still helping. The time and effort spent
preparing
and publishing the the tips page that you compare to a Chilton's
manual was
expended in an attempt to help others and spare them some of the
time and
effort that I have spent (including you). I have had no instruction
or
formal background familiarity with computer programing. I haven't
really
mastered ribbon customization either. I do find it interesting. It
was
that interest that motivated me to see if what you wanted on your
ribbon
could be done. I like the old saw "Give a man a fish and he eats for
a day.
Teach a man to fish and eats for a lifetime." The tips page is my
attempt
at teaching to fish. I have given you the fish (or I have certainly
tried).
Would you like your fish poached, broiled, or fried?

<It's as if you asked me a question about typing Hebrew in Word and I
offered you a phonological analysis of the Hebrew language.

If I had and if you did, I would at least have the grace to say
thank you.

Indeed -- thank you for explaining it in an understandable way!

Tomorrow I'll see if I can get that download thing so I can try
implementing your solution.

On Dec 8, 8:05 am, "Greg Maxey"
Of course not. If they are "technical articles," they are
addressed to people who know how to program in whatever language
they are about.

No, they are addressed to anyone who wants to customizie thier own
ribbon and with the gumption to read them. I suppose that excludes
you.

There you go again -- "a type of ribbon control."

Which of those five words is beyond your comprehension?

"ribbon control, type of"

Then i don't know what you mean by "label." The button as it
stands shows the last-chosen Border item (Top, Left Side,
whatever), and a drop-down triangle for choosing the particular
border item needed.

No. It is not a button. It is a splitButton and it shows a label
"Borders." Unlike the control above it which is a gallery and shows
a label "Shading."

On my Ribbon, they appear identical: an icon, a word, and a down-
arrow. Hovering over the word "Shading" produces a screentip;
hovering over the word "Borders" produces nothing, but clicking on
it would
cause whichever kind of border is shown in the icon to be applied to
the table. (It is, in fact, the last kind of border that was
selected from the dropdown.)

One who creates documents by using the tools as provided, without
trying to mess with programming code.

Is there anything about the current ribbon configuration that
prevents you from creating an ordinary document?

No. But because I use tables very frequently, it would be far more
convenient if the Borders control were on the Layout tab, which I
use constantly, and not on the Design tab, which I use almost never.

Would your definition imply that those
users who wish to become extraordinary need only apply themselves
to learning a new skill. Those "technical articles" are a good
place to start. There I go again.

So it sounds like there would be exactly as many clicks to get at
the Table Borders command, only instead of the first click being
on the Table Design tab, it would be on the CellSize button
instead. Thus the problem would remain exactly the same!

You didn't ask for click reduction. You stated and then asked:

The only feature of the Ribbon that I use frequently that is in a
very bad place is the Table Borders button. Can that be moved
from Table Design to Table Layout? (There's even room for it under
the two Distribute buttons.)

The answer again it yes. The ribbonX I provided you puts it under
the two Distribute buttons.

But either in your last message or in Ben's message [in google
groups,
it is not possible to view a posting outside the group of 10 in
which
one is currently composing a message], it was stated that the code
you provided (apparently that group of lines, I now deduce, is
called a "ribbonX") would place the Borders control inside the
CellSize
control, thus yielding absolutely no improvement in efficiency in
accessing it from the Layout tab when a border needs to be modified.

That means that either you once repeated a newsgroup posting in
email, or you sent me an insulting email off-list. I probably
can't check,
since either way I would have deleted it.

If you had a shred of humility you would recognize that you were
the transgressor in that exchange and apologize publicly or
privately. While my

You appear to be a grudge-holder. I have no memory whatsoever of the
event in question.

tone in this current exchange may appear barbed, I think most would
agree that I have tried to help you. With that, I will leave you
figure the ribbon out for yourself, or continue to stew over it.
Either way, I don't really care.

You did attempt to help. But your help is along the lines of
handing a Chilton manual to a driver with a cracked radiator. You
seem not to realize that you do in fact possess specialized
knowledge that took considerable time and effort (and probably
instruction, as well as background familiarity with computer
programming) to master. It's as
if you asked me a question about typing Hebrew in Word and I offered
you a phonological analysis of the Hebrew language.

grammatim wrote:
On Dec 7, 5:29 pm, "Greg Maxey"
No; I know that I don't have time to learn a programming
language.

Then perhaps you should leave it to those that do. I will be
happy to do your ribbon customizations for you for a fee.

I have no idea what you just said -- for instance, what a
"splitbutton" is -- since you say it's normal and shows a label,
but also that a splitbutton can only show a label if it's large.

That's because you either didn't read the technical atricles
linked from my

Of course not. If they are "technical articles," they are
addressed to people who know how to program in whatever language
they are about.

article on Ribbon Customization or you didn't understand what you
did read. A splitButton is a type of ribbon control. There are
built-in splitbuttons that are incorporated into built-in groups
on the ribbon, there are built-in pre-defined splitButtons that
you can put in your own custom groups, and there are custom
splitButtons that you can create yourself (provided you change
your mind and find the time to do it).

There you go again -- "a type of ribbon control."

...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 

[grammatim]

Oops,

Yes you are right.  There is a dialog box launcher associated with the "Cell
Size" group.  I overlooked that.  The revised RibbonX that will include the
dialog box launcher is shown below:

<customUI xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/01/customui">
<ribbon>
  <contextualTabs>
    <tabSet idMso="TabSetTableTools">
      <tab idMso="TabTableToolsLayout">
        <group idMso="GroupTableCellSize" visible="false" />
        <group id="CustGrp" label="Cell Size"
insertBeforeMso="GroupTableCellSize" >
          <menu idMso="TableAutoFitMenu" size="large" />
          <separator id="sep1" />
          <box id="box1" boxStyle="vertical" >
            <control idMso="TableRowHeight" />
            <control idMso="TableColumnWidth" />
          </box>
          <separator id="sep2" />
          <button idMso="TableRowsDistribute" />
          <button idMso="TableColumnsDistribute" />
          <splitButton idMso="TableBordersMenu" />
          <dialogBoxLauncher >
            <button idMso="TablePropertiesDialog" />
          </dialogBoxLauncher >
         </group>
       </tab>
    </tabSet>
  </contextualTabs>
</ribbon>
</customUI>

I don't know all of the background, but RibbonX is just a name used for the
XML script that is written to define ribbon customization.

It worked!! Thank you!