"Include Page" causes long uploads

[Matthew Schwarz]

The site referenced: http://www.c7f.navy.mil

The site's "main menu" is along the left side. The main menu is a completely
separate .htm page called left-menu.htm, which I "include" on every single
web page using FP 2003 include page tool.

I figured this is extremely handy, because whenever I need to make a change
on the menu it gets automatically changed on every single page.

In this, it does its job well.

The drawback -- when I make a change in the menu, FP goes through and
updates every single page, and I therefore need to re-upload every single
page.

If I had high bandwidth, no problem. But I'm on a ship and I'm lucky if I
get 2 KB/s. So when I do change the menu, I am literally uploading for 8-10
hours, and that's assuming the connection doesn't break off.

Are there any alternatives? I need a menu that is consistent on every single
page, and where one change would get reflected on every single page.

I guess that is where CSS comes in, but I don't really understand that.

 

[Ronx]

You either need FrontPage extensions on the server - then you only need to
Publish the left-menu.htm, the extensions will update the appropriate pages
on the server.
OR
If the server supports it, use server side includes for the menu. This will
probably require that all pages are renamed with an shtml extension - caveat
here is that FrontPage does not recognise any page with .shtml extension as
a home page and will nag because there is no home page in the web.
Alternatively, use a .asp extension IF the server supports ASP (Windows
server usually required, but many UNIX servers also support ASP). FrontPage
will recognise index.asp as a home page. Some (not many) servers will
support SSI with .htm or .html extensions - ask your host. As with the
extended site, changing the menu page only requires the menu page to be
uploaded.
--
Ron Symonds
Microsoft MVP (Expression Web)
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.

 

[Ronx]

There is also PHP includes - again requires a server that supports PHP (most
do) and renaming of every page with a .php extension.

--
Ron Symonds
Microsoft MVP (Expression Web)
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.

 

[Matthew Schwarz]

Ron, thanks for your replies.
Follow-up question: when I do update my left-menu.htm, saving the file takes
a few minutes because my FrontPage goes through and makes changes to every
single page. Then when I connect to my remote server, FrontPage compares and
sees that every single page has been recently updated, and therefore
FrontPage wants to upload every single pagae.

To me, it seems like the behavior that needs to be changed is the fact that
every single page gets updated on the local side.
Does FrontPage Server Extensions change that behavior?

 

[Ronx]

Does FrontPage Server Extensions change that behavior?

No. The include is a "at Save time" method of updating content. When the
Include page is saved, all pages using the include are updated. The time
saving with extensions is that you can right click on the included file, and
choose "Publish Selected Files". This will upload only the include file,
nothing else. The extensions on the server will then rebuild all the pages
on the server with the updated file. At some stage when time is plentiful,
you should publish everything to get back into synch. When Publishing with
FTP, every page has to be uploaded.

When using SSI, the included file is NOT added to the existing pages - a
much faster method for saving, and all the existing pages are smaller,
knocking a second or two per page off the upload time. Again only the
include file needs to be uploaded (even when using FTP) if there are no
other changes. The included file is only added to existing pages when the
page is served to a browser. The caveat here is all the pagename changes
index.htm to index.shtm etc.

--
Ron Symonds
Microsoft MVP (Expression Web)
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.

 

[Matthew Schwarz]

That sounds like it would work if I were the only webmaster. There are others
for whom I need to keep things as simple as possible...adding in the step of
"publish this but not that" may make them scratch their heads.

We connect to our server via WebDav and simply publish all changed files.
This is one thing that I love about Frontpage -- our earlier website always
confused my coworkers as to which files need to be uploaded.

I've read a little about CSS, and it seems like that is what many people are
now using to create their menus. I'm not too clear on it exactly...thoughts?

 

[Ronx]

Using CSS separates presentation from content, and if used correctly leads
to smaller (filesize) pages that work on almost every browser in common use.
CSS menus are definitely easier to maintain than other contructions.
However, using CSS will not solve your upload problems.
Webdav and FTP, in this context, are much of a muchness. Either the menus
are separate files using SSI, or every page has to be uploaded. FrontPage
will only upload the files that have changed - with SSI menus the changed
files are those that have been newly created or edited.

--
Ron Symonds
Microsoft MVP (Expression Web)
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.