Includes - How come...?

[Keith Richards]

How come when you change an "include" that all the pages that reference it
have to be republished too?

For example, at www.northcoastcomputers.com the left hand menu is an
"include". when I change this "include"ed menu and then publish it - the
changes never show until I republish all the other pages (that reference the
"include" menu) on the site.

Is this normal behavior for "include" files or, is it because my "includes"
are in a separate folder or, other?

Thanks in advance for the enlightenment...

 

[Chris Leeds, MVP - FrontPage]

actually, if you have FrontPage server extensions they don't.
just change your include page, find it in your folder pane, right click and
chose "publish selected file". the server will realize it's getting
included in other pages and do the updates for you automatically.
it's one of my favorite aspects of FP Includes.

--
Have you seen ContentSeed (www.contentseed.com)?
--
Chris Leeds
Contact: http://chrisleeds.com/contact

NOTE:
This message was posted from an unmonitored email account.
This is an unfortunate necessity due to high volumes of spam sent to email
addresses in public newsgroups.
Sorry for any inconvenience.

 

[David Berry]

This happens if you're using a disk-based web on your local PC. You have to
change the include, recalculate the hyperlinks and then publish all the
pages. If you were using a server-based web locally (you had IIS installed
and were using http://localhost/webname) then this wouldn't happen. Or if
you were doing it from your live site in FrontPage.

 

[Ronx]

That is not entirely correct. If the remote server has FrontPage
extensions, then publishing Changed Pages Only will only upload the
included file - the extensions on the server will update all pages on
the server.
If there are no extensions on the server (or you publish All Pages),
then every page that has the included file will have to be published.
This applies to both disc based and server based local webs.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

 

[Keith Richards]

and then of course, just to make things way easier there's always GoDaddy
Hosting!

The way I've been doing it is to have the site includes in their own folder
on an FP2003/Vista client.

When I've edited/changed the include then I save and right click - publish
to server - just the one include file.

As mentioned, the main index and other root folder .htm files never get
updated until I republish all the files to the Server - contrary behavior to
what Chris and Ronx's first paragraph's are saying?? - Should I be waiting
longer for the Server files to update?

So, to respond to:

Chris: GoDaddy's Servers do have FP extensions running on a Shared hosting
'nix box but the Server appears not to be updating automatically.

David: I'm using neither disk-based web nor server-based local web but, as
you mention, I do have to publish all pages to GoDaddy's 'nix server based
web.

Ronx: Again, publishing just the one changed include file is not producing
the required results..

Thanks for all your input and, there seems to be weirdness happening. From
what you're all saying then this - the Server file update of the changed
include file - should be happening automatically. It ain't!

I wonder if it's GoD's 'nix implementation of FPSE or, whether I should wait
a little longer to see if the other site files update or, any other ideas?

Thanks for all your input...

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

If you use selective publishing the only page updated is page you have selected to publish, no other
page will be updated. You have to use the Publish Change Pages Only option of the Publish Site
command.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage

http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================

 

[Chris Leeds, MVP - FrontPage]

if you've got any "optimize html" stuff checked in the publishing dialog
it'll mess this up.
it wipes out the information necessary in the files that should get the
include.
other than that, blame godaddy.

--
Have you seen ContentSeed (www.contentseed.com)?
--
Chris Leeds
Contact: http://chrisleeds.com/contact

NOTE:
This message was posted from an unmonitored email account.
This is an unfortunate necessity due to high volumes of spam sent to email
addresses in public newsgroups.
Sorry for any inconvenience.

 

[Ronx]

When you publish changed files or all files, after the files have
uploaded there is a period when a message similar to "processing web
updates" appears. It is during this period that all updates to files
from shared borders, include files, themes and FrontPage navigation, and
other webbots are made. If this fails (usually with an error message)
then the updates may fail.

If you publish with FTP then (apart from corrupting the extensions) all
pages must be uploaded.

In my experience, as Chris said, publishing a selected single file that
is included in other files will also fire the updating process - except
navigation changes which does require a full publish (changed pages or
all pages). However the process is not announced as such, but has
completed when the "copying [file] to [file]" dialogue closes.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

 

[Chris Leeds, MVP - FrontPage]

it's a really cool and little known feature isn't it?
IMHO second only to the little known and used ability to publish from one
http:// (server based web) to another. that's been real handy for me in a
few scenarios.

--
Have you seen ContentSeed (www.contentseed.com)?
--
Chris Leeds
Contact: http://chrisleeds.com/contact

NOTE:
This message was posted from an unmonitored email account.
This is an unfortunate necessity due to high volumes of spam sent to email
addresses in public newsgroups.
Sorry for any inconvenience.

When you publish changed files or all files, after the files have uploaded
there is a period when a message similar to "processing web updates"
appears. It is during this period that all updates to files from shared
borders, include files, themes and FrontPage navigation, and other webbots
are made. If this fails (usually with an error message) then the updates
may fail.

If you publish with FTP then (apart from corrupting the extensions) all
pages must be uploaded.

In my experience, as Chris said, publishing a selected single file that is
included in other files will also fire the updating process - except
navigation changes which does require a full publish (changed pages or all
pages). However the process is not announced as such, but has completed
when the "copying [file] to [file]" dialogue closes.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

and then of course, just to make things way easier there's always GoDaddy
Hosting!

The way I've been doing it is to have the site includes in their own
folder
on an FP2003/Vista client.

When I've edited/changed the include then I save and right click -
publish
to server - just the one include file.

As mentioned, the main index and other root folder .htm files never get
updated until I republish all the files to the Server - contrary behavior
to
what Chris and Ronx's first paragraph's are saying?? - Should I be
waiting
longer for the Server files to update?

So, to respond to:

Chris: GoDaddy's Servers do have FP extensions running on a Shared
hosting
'nix box but the Server appears not to be updating automatically.

David: I'm using neither disk-based web nor server-based local web but,
as
you mention, I do have to publish all pages to GoDaddy's 'nix server
based
web.

Ronx: Again, publishing just the one changed include file is not
producing
the required results..

Thanks for all your input and, there seems to be weirdness happening.
From
what you're all saying then this - the Server file update of the changed
include file - should be happening automatically. It ain't!

I wonder if it's GoD's 'nix implementation of FPSE or, whether I should
wait
a little longer to see if the other site files update or, any other
ideas?

Thanks for all your input...




--
__________________________
How hard can it be?
Keith Richards ba mcse
http://www.northcoastcomputers.net

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

When you use Selective Publishing, FP does not update any other file(s) or upload any externally
reference content, such as images, etc., associated with the uploaded file, nor is any meta data
updated on the live/remote server.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage

http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================

When you publish changed files or all files, after the files have uploaded there is a period when
a message similar to "processing web updates" appears. It is during this period that all updates
to files from shared borders, include files, themes and FrontPage navigation, and other webbots
are made. If this fails (usually with an error message) then the updates may fail.

If you publish with FTP then (apart from corrupting the extensions) all pages must be uploaded.

In my experience, as Chris said, publishing a selected single file that is included in other files
will also fire the updating process - except navigation changes which does require a full publish
(changed pages or all pages). However the process is not announced as such, but has completed
when the "copying [file] to [file]" dialogue closes.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

and then of course, just to make things way easier there's always GoDaddy
Hosting!

The way I've been doing it is to have the site includes in their own folder
on an FP2003/Vista client.

When I've edited/changed the include then I save and right click - publish
to server - just the one include file.

As mentioned, the main index and other root folder .htm files never get
updated until I republish all the files to the Server - contrary behavior to
what Chris and Ronx's first paragraph's are saying?? - Should I be waiting
longer for the Server files to update?

So, to respond to:

Chris: GoDaddy's Servers do have FP extensions running on a Shared hosting
'nix box but the Server appears not to be updating automatically.

David: I'm using neither disk-based web nor server-based local web but, as
you mention, I do have to publish all pages to GoDaddy's 'nix server based
web.

Ronx: Again, publishing just the one changed include file is not producing
the required results..

Thanks for all your input and, there seems to be weirdness happening. From
what you're all saying then this - the Server file update of the changed
include file - should be happening automatically. It ain't!

I wonder if it's GoD's 'nix implementation of FPSE or, whether I should wait
a little longer to see if the other site files update or, any other ideas?

Thanks for all your input...




--
__________________________
How hard can it be?
Keith Richards ba mcse
http://www.northcoastcomputers.net

 

[Ronx]

Inline

--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

When you use Selective Publishing, FP does not update any other file(s)

Not correct
Using FP2003, selective publishing tested with a file in a disc based
web published to a server based web running on Windows 2003. The file
is included in most pages.

The included file used for this test was included into all files on the
server, replacing the original included content.

or upload any externally
reference content, such as images, etc., associated with the uploaded file,
Correct

nor is any meta data
updated on the live/remote server.

Not correct.

Lines are added to _vti_cnf/filename.ext on the server indicating
source of update, and date and time updated. In this case menu.htm the
following lines were added/modified:

vti_timelastmodified:TW|08 Apr 2007 17:42:14 -0000
vti_nexttolasttimemodified:TW|08 Apr 2007 17:42:14 -0000
vti_syncwith_localhost\\e\:\\documents\\my documents\\my web
sites\\ewd-4-ftp4/e\:/documents/my documents/my web
sites/ewd-4-ftp4:TW|08 Apr 2007 17:42:14 -0000

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage

http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================

When you publish changed files or all files, after the files have uploaded there is a period when
a message similar to "processing web updates" appears. It is during this period that all updates
to files from shared borders, include files, themes and FrontPage navigation, and other webbots
are made. If this fails (usually with an error message) then the updates may fail.

If you publish with FTP then (apart from corrupting the extensions) all pages must be uploaded.

In my experience, as Chris said, publishing a selected single file that is included in other files
will also fire the updating process - except navigation changes which does require a full publish
(changed pages or all pages). However the process is not announced as such, but has completed
when the "copying [file] to [file]" dialogue closes.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

and then of course, just to make things way easier there's always GoDaddy
Hosting!

The way I've been doing it is to have the site includes in their own folder
on an FP2003/Vista client.

When I've edited/changed the include then I save and right click - publish
to server - just the one include file.

As mentioned, the main index and other root folder .htm files never get
updated until I republish all the files to the Server - contrary behavior to
what Chris and Ronx's first paragraph's are saying?? - Should I be waiting
longer for the Server files to update?

So, to respond to:

Chris: GoDaddy's Servers do have FP extensions running on a Shared hosting
'nix box but the Server appears not to be updating automatically.

David: I'm using neither disk-based web nor server-based local web but, as
you mention, I do have to publish all pages to GoDaddy's 'nix server based
web.

Ronx: Again, publishing just the one changed include file is not producing
the required results..

Thanks for all your input and, there seems to be weirdness happening. From
what you're all saying then this - the Server file update of the changed
include file - should be happening automatically. It ain't!

I wonder if it's GoD's 'nix implementation of FPSE or, whether I should wait
a little longer to see if the other site files update or, any other ideas?

Thanks for all your input...


How come when you change an "include" that all the pages that reference it
have to be republished too?

For example, at www.northcoastcomputers.com the left hand menu is an
"include". when I change this "include"ed menu and then publish it - the
changes never show until I republish all the other pages (that reference
the "include" menu) on the site.

Is this normal behavior for "include" files or, is it because my
"includes" are in a separate folder or, other?

Thanks in advance for the enlightenment...

--
__________________________
How hard can it be?
Keith Richards ba mcse
http://www.northcoastcomputers.net


--
__________________________
How hard can it be?
Keith Richards ba mcse
http://www.northcoastcomputers.net

 

[Chris Leeds, MVP - FrontPage]

my testing results were the same.

--
Have you seen ContentSeed (www.contentseed.com)?
--
Chris Leeds
Contact: http://chrisleeds.com/contact

NOTE:
This message was posted from an unmonitored email account.
This is an unfortunate necessity due to high volumes of spam sent to email
addresses in public newsgroups.
Sorry for any inconvenience.

Inline

--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

When you use Selective Publishing, FP does not update any other file(s)

Not correct
Using FP2003, selective publishing tested with a file in a disc based web
published to a server based web running on Windows 2003. The file is
included in most pages.

The included file used for this test was included into all files on the
server, replacing the original included content.

or upload any externally
reference content, such as images, etc., associated with the uploaded
file,
Correct

nor is any meta data
updated on the live/remote server.

Not correct.

Lines are added to _vti_cnf/filename.ext on the server indicating source
of update, and date and time updated. In this case menu.htm the following
lines were added/modified:

vti_timelastmodified:TW|08 Apr 2007 17:42:14 -0000
vti_nexttolasttimemodified:TW|08 Apr 2007 17:42:14 -0000
vti_syncwith_localhost\\e\:\\documents\\my documents\\my web
sites\\ewd-4-ftp4/e\:/documents/my documents/my web sites/ewd-4-ftp4:TW|08
Apr 2007 17:42:14 -0000

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage

http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================

When you publish changed files or all files, after the files have
uploaded there is a period when
a message similar to "processing web updates" appears. It is during
this period that all updates
to files from shared borders, include files, themes and FrontPage
navigation, and other webbots
are made. If this fails (usually with an error message) then the
updates may fail.

If you publish with FTP then (apart from corrupting the extensions) all
pages must be uploaded.

In my experience, as Chris said, publishing a selected single file that
is included in other files
will also fire the updating process - except navigation changes which
does require a full publish
(changed pages or all pages). However the process is not announced as
such, but has completed
when the "copying [file] to [file]" dialogue closes.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp




and then of course, just to make things way easier there's always
GoDaddy
Hosting!

The way I've been doing it is to have the site includes in their own
folder
on an FP2003/Vista client.

When I've edited/changed the include then I save and right click -
publish
to server - just the one include file.

As mentioned, the main index and other root folder .htm files never
get
updated until I republish all the files to the Server - contrary
behavior to
what Chris and Ronx's first paragraph's are saying?? - Should I be
waiting
longer for the Server files to update?

So, to respond to:

Chris: GoDaddy's Servers do have FP extensions running on a Shared
hosting
'nix box but the Server appears not to be updating automatically.

David: I'm using neither disk-based web nor server-based local web
but, as
you mention, I do have to publish all pages to GoDaddy's 'nix server
based
web.

Ronx: Again, publishing just the one changed include file is not
producing
the required results..

Thanks for all your input and, there seems to be weirdness happening.
From
what you're all saying then this - the Server file update of the
changed
include file - should be happening automatically. It ain't!

I wonder if it's GoD's 'nix implementation of FPSE or, whether I
should wait
a little longer to see if the other site files update or, any other
ideas?

Thanks for all your input...


How come when you change an "include" that all the pages that
reference it
have to be republished too?

For example, at www.northcoastcomputers.com the left hand menu is an
"include". when I change this "include"ed menu and then publish it -
the
changes never show until I republish all the other pages (that
reference
the "include" menu) on the site.

Is this normal behavior for "include" files or, is it because my
"includes" are in a separate folder or, other?

Thanks in advance for the enlightenment...

--
__________________________
How hard can it be?
Keith Richards ba mcse
http://www.northcoastcomputers.net


--
__________________________
How hard can it be?
Keith Richards ba mcse
http://www.northcoastcomputers.net

 

[Keith Richards]

okie dokie... I can do that. Thnaks..

If you use selective publishing the only page updated is page you have
selected to publish, no other page will be updated. You have to use the
Publish Change Pages Only option of the Publish Site command.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage

http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================

 

[Keith Richards]

yea, I have 'optimize' stuff going on. I'll dbl. check where exactly. Thanks
for the FP 101 warning. I should have known! Thank you.

 

[Chris Leeds, MVP - FrontPage]

You're very welcome.
I wouldn't have known about it if I didn't have a customer totally stymied
by the issue. it took me several hours to realize what was happening.

--
Have you seen ContentSeed (www.contentseed.com)?
--
Chris Leeds
Contact: http://chrisleeds.com/contact

NOTE:
This message was posted from an unmonitored email account.
This is an unfortunate necessity due to high volumes of spam sent to email
addresses in public newsgroups.
Sorry for any inconvenience.

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

My answer is based on a reply directly from Microsoft regarding how the FP Selective Publishing
function works.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage

http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================

Inline

--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp

When you use Selective Publishing, FP does not update any other file(s)

Not correct
Using FP2003, selective publishing tested with a file in a disc based web published to a server
based web running on Windows 2003. The file is included in most pages.

The included file used for this test was included into all files on the server, replacing the
original included content.

or upload any externally
reference content, such as images, etc., associated with the uploaded file,
Correct

nor is any meta data
updated on the live/remote server.

Not correct.

Lines are added to _vti_cnf/filename.ext on the server indicating source of update, and date and
time updated. In this case menu.htm the following lines were added/modified:

vti_timelastmodified:TW|08 Apr 2007 17:42:14 -0000
vti_nexttolasttimemodified:TW|08 Apr 2007 17:42:14 -0000
vti_syncwith_localhost\\e\:\\documents\\my documents\\my web sites\\ewd-4-ftp4/e\:/documents/my
documents/my web sites/ewd-4-ftp4:TW|08 Apr 2007 17:42:14 -0000

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage

http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================

When you publish changed files or all files, after the files have uploaded there is a period
when
a message similar to "processing web updates" appears. It is during this period that all
updates
to files from shared borders, include files, themes and FrontPage navigation, and other webbots
are made. If this fails (usually with an error message) then the updates may fail.

If you publish with FTP then (apart from corrupting the extensions) all pages must be uploaded.

In my experience, as Chris said, publishing a selected single file that is included in other
files
will also fire the updating process - except navigation changes which does require a full
publish
(changed pages or all pages). However the process is not announced as such, but has completed
when the "copying [file] to [file]" dialogue closes.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp




and then of course, just to make things way easier there's always GoDaddy
Hosting!

The way I've been doing it is to have the site includes in their own folder
on an FP2003/Vista client.

When I've edited/changed the include then I save and right click - publish
to server - just the one include file.

As mentioned, the main index and other root folder .htm files never get
updated until I republish all the files to the Server - contrary behavior to
what Chris and Ronx's first paragraph's are saying?? - Should I be waiting
longer for the Server files to update?

So, to respond to:

Chris: GoDaddy's Servers do have FP extensions running on a Shared hosting
'nix box but the Server appears not to be updating automatically.

David: I'm using neither disk-based web nor server-based local web but, as
you mention, I do have to publish all pages to GoDaddy's 'nix server based
web.

Ronx: Again, publishing just the one changed include file is not producing
the required results..

Thanks for all your input and, there seems to be weirdness happening. From
what you're all saying then this - the Server file update of the changed
include file - should be happening automatically. It ain't!

I wonder if it's GoD's 'nix implementation of FPSE or, whether I should wait
a little longer to see if the other site files update or, any other ideas?

Thanks for all your input...


How come when you change an "include" that all the pages that reference it
have to be republished too?

For example, at www.northcoastcomputers.com the left hand menu is an
"include". when I change this "include"ed menu and then publish it - the
changes never show until I republish all the other pages (that reference
the "include" menu) on the site.

Is this normal behavior for "include" files or, is it because my
"includes" are in a separate folder or, other?

Thanks in advance for the enlightenment...

--
__________________________
How hard can it be?
Keith Richards ba mcse
http://www.northcoastcomputers.net


--
__________________________
How hard can it be?
Keith Richards ba mcse
http://www.northcoastcomputers.net

 

[Keith Richards]

Don'cha just love learning from your Customers

 

[Chris Leeds, MVP - FrontPage]

it was more learning "cuz" of them, not from them. ;-)

--
Chris Leeds
Contact: http://chrisleeds.com/contact
Have you seen ContentSeed (www.contentseed.com)?
NOTE:
This message was posted from an unmonitored email account.
This is an unfortunate necessity due to high volumes of spam sent to email
addresses in public newsgroups.
Sorry for any inconvenience.