Incompatibilities with IE7?

[Kangaroo495]

Launched a websote recently - www.rus-res-rev.ru using Publisher. Got some
feedback that in some cases, the site is unviewable in IE7 with disabled
JavaScript, and is very mixed up in FrieFox.

I understand that in "other" browsers the site will encounter problems, but
what's the deal with IE7? For starters, I don't even know what JavaScript is,
so maybe that's affecting it...?

 

[Kangaroo495]

Good answer... Bloody good answer. I'm going to work on that and get right
back to know. I know what you're saying regarding duplicates. I will
republish that. Regarding the "index.htm" and "rus-res-rev.htm" I have them
both in the "Documents" section. Can I simply rename "index" to "rus-res-rev"
without experiencing any problems or is "index" obligatory?

Thanks very much for the help!

 

[DavidF]

This is likely to be a longer answer than you expected, and fixing your site
is going to be more than a one step process.

First of all, you have managed to do something that I have never experienced
before. When I load
http://www.rus-res-rev.ru/RusResRev_files/Aboutus.htm
in IE7 I get a navbar menu that has 7 buttons or links. When I load that
page in FireFox 3 I get 8 buttons or links in the menu. Now, I have no clear
idea of how you managed to do this, but I suppose that you have two
different copies of 'Aboutus.htm' on the server, and you need to clear this
up before you worry about other issues. In the FF navbar you have the extra
'restaurant reviews' link which points to
http://www.rus-res-rev.ru/RusResRev_files/AZ.htm while the A-Z link/button
points to http://www.rus-res-rev.ru/RusResRev_files/Top.htm . As I said, it
appears that you may have more than one set of web files. So, I would
suggest that you need to log on to your web host and delete all the old
Publisher web files that you find and republish. Be very careful to only
delete the Publisher web files. These would include the 'RusResRev_files'
folder and all the files within. It would probably also include the
'RusResRev.htm' file which is apparently your home page file.

Now, also look to see if you have an 'index.htm' file and an 'index_files"
folder. If so, you may also want to eventually delete those. I say 'may'
because Publisher is set up to use index.htm as the default home page name,
and also build an index_files folder to contain all the other pages of your
site, plus all the supporting graphics and images. I can go to
http://www.rus-res-rev.ru/index.htm or
http://www.rus-res-rev.ru/RusResRev.htm and get your home page, which
implies that you have the index.htm file. However, it may be that the
browser cannot find the index.htm file and is opening the RusResRev.htm file
instead. So, for now just look to see if there is an index.htm file on the
server and let me know.

Now as per the issue of the pages not loading in IE7 with javascript
disabled. I somehow doubt that is exactly what is happening. I don't know
how to quickly disable javascript in IE, but I do in FF3, so tested you
pages with javascript disabled. No problem. What I suspect is you sent a set
of HTML files to your 'tester' and they tested your site by opening your
*.htm files for your web from the local computer....not viewing them online.
When you do this you will be a warning bar that IE 'has restricted this
webpage from running scripts or ActiveX controls that could access your
computer...' and you have to click that bar and allow the action. Check with
the person that gave you the feedback and see if that is what they are
experiencing. You do not have any javacript in your code from what I can
tell.

As per the site being 'very mixed up' in FireFox, I did not have time to
look at each page, but usually if you are having problems with the layout
and spacing this is because of the text or paragraph formatting using. In
general you need to avoid special paragraph formatting, line spacing,
indents, tabs, and other 'print formatting' techniques. You need to strip
off any special print formatting to the text and work with just font and
font size initially. You can add other formatting but need to test as you
go. Some things will work in both IE and FF and some things won't. Some
print formatting techniques won't ever work in IE. Print media is different
than web media and you just have to design around the differences.

I am out of time right now, but before you or we deal with any specific
formatting or layout issue, I would suggest that you republish your site,
and make sure we are dealing with only one set of pages. The two different
menu/navbars suggests that you might have some duplication on your site, so
let's make sure that you are dealing with only one set. Once you get those
republished then go through your pages and identify specific example of
where the pages render differently in IE and FF, and post back the details
and we will help you fix it.

DavidF

 

[Eric James]

Your site doesn't work too well in IE8 either, of course.
You could avoid large amounts of aggravation, both now and in the future, by
simply using a more appropriate tool to build your web pages - Publisher is
best used for print purposes and isn't really meant for making web pages,
which as you have seen it generally makes a terrible hash of.
Try Webplus from http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/
As a more general comment - black text on a graduated grey background isn't
a very good idea - it just makes your pages less legible.

 

[DavidF]

You are welcome...

In regards to the choice between "index.htm" and "rus-res-rev.htm" , I
would suggest that you use the default of index.htm and the index_files
folder. Browsers will look for and recognize 'index.htm' as a default *.htm
file for the home page...can't say they will for rus-res-rev.htm. I suspect
there is far less chance of errors if you use the index.htm for you home
page and let the links reflect that and the index_files folder.

DavidF

 

[Kangaroo495]

David, I've republished the site, using index.htm and index_files.

So in terms of the format. I received feedback in the form of screenshots
from one reader. In IE7, he managed to open the page, but the text was shown
in a wider format, not in the long, thin column format which I used in
publisher. It also seemed that there was no toolbar on the left hand side, as
the text began from the very left of the page in the black-grey phasing area,
making it very difficult to read. However, as you've seen, on the left hand
side, there is a black toolbar, and by the time the text begins, the
background is already grey anough for the black text to be perfectly visible.

In FF, there were problems with the home page and with Contact Us. On the
home page, the picture of food at the bottom of the page was covering up the
last paragraph of text, and the description of the picture was also incurring
on the text. On the contact page, the "Reviews" in "Russian Restaurant
Reviews" was covering up the "Contact Us" heading below, and there was no
black column behind the toolbar. However, the text was perfectly visible.

FYI, my browser IE 6.0 shows the site PERFECTLY. Just as it is intended to
look.

Thanks heaps!

 

[DavidF]

Hi,

I am still seeing two different navbars in IE7 and FF3. In FF3 I have a link
to 'Restaurant reviews' and that is not in the IE7 view. Do you get the two
different navbars? Did you perhaps leave any old Publisher files on the
server? The next time you republish, delete the index.htm file and the
index_files folder from the server before you upload new files. Don't trust
that the old site files are being overwritten. Let's set aside that mystery
for the moment, though I would appreciate it if someone else in the group
would confirm my experience by viewing the home page
http://www.rus-res-rev.ru/ in FF and IE and letting me know if it is only my
experience.

Now as to the reader that is supposedly using IE7 to view you site, I am not
getting the same experience. Your home page looks almost exactly the same in
IE7 and FF3 for me with a slight variation in how large the text and line
spacing is rendered.

I would suggest this general approach to fixing spacing and formatting
issues in text boxes that you might encounter between the different browser
views. Click in the text box and either use the keys Ctrl + A, or go to Edit

Select All to select all the text within a text box. Then > Format >

Styles and Clear formatting. This will strip out any and all special line
spacing or paragraph formatting. Provided that you are using a web friendly
font, this text box will render pretty much the same in all browsers. Test
it in IE and FF to confirm. Once you see how the text is going to render,
then you can adjust your layout accordingly. You can change the font size or
the font to another web friendly font, but if you want to add indents or any
other kind of special formatting, you should test as you go in both IE and
FF. There are things you can do, and some things you can't. Remember that as
I said before there are print formatting techniques that simple will not
translate to cross browser compatible html. However, generally if your pages
look good and work correctly in both IE and FF, then the pages will also
work correctly in Safari, Opera and Chrome which means that the pages will
work in all the major browsers.

So, I would apply this approach to the center column text on your home page
and adjust your layout accordingly, and see if the pages render more closely
in FF and IE.

I also did not see the same thing that your tester did on your Contact Page.
I couldn't see any substantial differences in how the page was rendered in
IE and FF, but once again, you might want to strip out the "styles".

And by the way, it isn't clear to me that you are testing your site with
both IE and FF yourself. If you have not done so before now, download and
install FF: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/ It is a relatively small
download and an easy install. Just be careful that when you are given the
choice, to opt out of making it your default browser. And once you have it
installed, you do not need to upload your Publisher files to test them with
FF. When you Publish to the Web and produce your web files, direct them to
your local computer where you can easily find them. I put them in a
'TestHTML' folder on my desktop. Then you need only right click the
index.htm file > Open with > and choose FF. You can also open the
index_files folder and test the other .htm files/ pages of your site.

Ok, now that you have FF installed, and know how to direct your web files to
your local computer to make them easy to test as you go, you can go to each
page of your site and view and test them. Use the general technique I
suggested above to strip out all paragraph, line and text formatting out of
each text box that does not render as you expect or want. Work through your
publication and you should be able to resolve most of the formatting issues.
As you discover anything that you cannot fix, then post back with the
specifics and we will help.

Also be sure to run the Design Checker under Tools at some point. This will
help identify some potential problems.

One more comment before I go on. I would not use the gradient background if
I were you. Publisher chokes a bit with gradients and you should notice when
you test your site in both IE and FF that while it is acceptable in IE, it
is too dark in FF and makes the text difficult to read. If you want to keep
the black and gray theme, just switch to a sold light gray background. It
may not be as "cool" but it will be a whole lot easier to read and that is
really more important. Sometimes it is better to keep your pages simple...vs
cool.

Now as to your tester that was supposedly testing with IE7. I suspect that
they are actually testing with IE8, because of the comment about not being
able to view the navbar. If you have been reading other posts in the group,
you will know that IE8 does not render any 'grouped' design elements, and
this includes the navbars. That is why I suspect your tester is actually
using IE8. I am running out of time this morning so I am going to paste some
boilerplate about this issue and how to resolve it. If it isn't clear we can
discuss it more later but I hope this at least gets you started on tweaking
your layout and formatting. It may sound like a lot of work, but it really
is not going to take that long to tweak your pages so that you get good
cross browser compatibility.

-----------

The only compatibility issues with Publisher 2003 and 2007 and IE8 RTW
reported thus far are problems associated with 'grouping'. Any design
elements that are 'grouped' together, which includes the Publisher wizard
built navbars, do not render when you view the web page in IE8 . The fix in
general is to ungroup the elements. There is both a manual fix to these
issues and a Service Patch that has been issued to fix it.

Reference: Navigation bars and other content is missing from Publisher HTML
output in Internet Explorer 8: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/969705

A manual method of fixing this grouping issue:

Prior to uploading your pages find all text boxes and other design elements
that are grouped together and ungroup. You can save those changes to your
publication. Then make a copy of your publication by doing a 'File > Save
As' and in this copy go to each page > Edit > Select All > Arrange >
Ungroup. This will ungroup the Publisher built navbar and disconnect it from
the wizard, and the navbars will render correctly in IE8. 'Publish to the
Web' from this copy of your publication. When you want to make further
changes in your web, go back to the original Publisher file, make the
corrections there, save your changes, and again make a copy, ungroup the
navbars and produce new web files for uploading. The advantage of this
workflow is that you will not have to rebuild the navbar if you choose to
add a page to the navbar. If you do not need to add a page, you can leave
the navbar ungrouped and skip the step of saving a copy.

This is also fixed with the Office 2007 SP2:

Reference: Description of 2007 Microsoft Office Suite Service Pack 2 (SP2)
and of Microsoft Office Language Pack 2007 SP2:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=953195

The usual caveat also applies. While I would never recommend to anyone that
they not install any security or service patch, when you install service
patches there can be unintended consequences. You might fix one thing only
to break something else. While I have not had any problems on my test
partition there have been other people who have posted about problems
opening Pub 2007 files after installing the Office 2007 SP2.
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=953195
also lists some of the known issues along with some of the things this patch
fixes in Office 2007 applications.

If it were me, I would probably ungroup the navbars manually rather than
install the SP2 for the short term, and wait until MSFT debugs the Office
2007 SP2, rather than risk not being able to open pre-existing Publisher
files. I have not installed SP2 on my production machines...