Installing 2007 runtime app on Terminal Server 2003- issues?

D

Damon Heron

I have an Access runtime app that a user in another state has attempted to
install on Terminal Server, and the install routine crashes. Not sure what
the
error msgs are at this point, but it appears to be something with "msi" -
anyone
have any experience installing runtime access on terminal server 2003?

Damon
 
R

Rick Brandt

Damon said:
I have an Access runtime app that a user in another state has
attempted to install on Terminal Server, and the install routine
crashes. Not sure what the
error msgs are at this point, but it appears to be something with
"msi" - anyone
have any experience installing runtime access on terminal server 2003?

Damon

I think Office 2007 only runs on Terminal Server if you have the Enterprise
Edition. That might rule out the runtime entirely.
 
D

David W. Fenton

I think Office 2007 only runs on Terminal Server if you have the
Enterprise Edition. That might rule out the runtime entirely.

Hmm. I don't have any facts to offer, but that seems like that just
couldn't possibly be correct.

To run pre-Office 2K7 apps on Terminal Server, you didn't need the
Enterprise Edition of the server, but you *did* need to have the
software installed on the workstation you were running the Terminal
Server app on. It seems to me that, given that MS has always
supported running an Access app with the runtime on a workstation
without having a license to run full Access, it would be logically
inconsistent to disallow A2K7 runtime apps on WTS.

Not that logic ever stopped MS before, though...
 
R

Rick Brandt

David said:
Hmm. I don't have any facts to offer, but that seems like that just
couldn't possibly be correct.

To run pre-Office 2K7 apps on Terminal Server, you didn't need the
Enterprise Edition of the server, but you *did* need to have the
software installed on the workstation you were running the Terminal
Server app on.

Depends on your definition of "need". Clents are supposed to hold a proper
license for any software they run on the TS, but I don't think that is a
technical requirement, only a legal one.
It seems to me that, given that MS has always
supported running an Access app with the runtime on a workstation
without having a license to run full Access, it would be logically
inconsistent to disallow A2K7 runtime apps on WTS.

Not that logic ever stopped MS before, though...

I was only speculating, but I remember reading that for standard (licensed)
copies of Office 2007 apps to work on TS you had to use the Enterprise
version of Office. If full-blown Access 2007 only works if you use the
Enterprise Edition, then it would seem to follow that the runtime does not
qualify. Again, I have heard no claims yet from someone that has tried it
and verified the situation one way or the other.
 
D

Damon Heron

Thank you both for your input. We eventually got it to install and run, but
it was realllllly slow, so ended up
installing it on a Vista pc. Vista may bring another set of problems, but I
have my fingers crossed.

Damon
 
D

David W. Fenton

Depends on your definition of "need". Clents are supposed to hold
a proper license for any software they run on the TS, but I don't
think that is a technical requirement, only a legal one.

Are you certain that a client with no Office programs installed
could run Office programs on a WTS? I thought you had to have *some*
office programs installed for it to work, though the license server
didn't enforce the requirement for the exact application/version you
were running on the Terminal Server. Thus, a user with Office Small
Business installed on the client PC could run an Access app on the
Terminal Server.
I was only speculating, but I remember reading that for standard
(licensed) copies of Office 2007 apps to work on TS you had to use
the Enterprise version of Office.

That part I'm not disputing in any way, as I know that to be a fact
-- Office 2007 requires the Enterprise version of Windows Terminal
Server in order for you to run Office 2007 apps on it.
If full-blown Access 2007 only works if you use the
Enterprise Edition,

Not of Office, but of Windows Server, I think.
then it would seem to follow that the runtime does not
qualify. Again, I have heard no claims yet from someone that has
tried it and verified the situation one way or the other.

I think you're applying the "Enterprise" requirement to the wrong
piece of software -- it is a *Windows Terminal Server* requirement,
not an Office requirement.

But I could be wrong on that, as I have no plans to use any version
of Office 2007 with any of my clients in the foreseeable future, WTS
or not.
 
R

Rick Brandt

David said:
Are you certain that a client with no Office programs installed
could run Office programs on a WTS? I thought you had to have *some*
office programs installed for it to work, though the license server
didn't enforce the requirement for the exact application/version you
were running on the Terminal Server. Thus, a user with Office Small
Business installed on the client PC could run an Access app on the
Terminal Server.

Our company holds volume licensing for just about anything from Microsoft
that's not server software. We have PCs in our factories (users that don't
have Email accounts) where there is pretty much nothing but Windows
installed. These PCs can still run my Access apps over TS along with the
Outlook functionality that the app invokes.

Perhaps it is our volume licensing that allows this to work. My impression
was that except for TS CALS and Citrix licenses that all other license
requirements for running programs over TS are on the honor system. That
they are legally required, but that nothing technical enforces those
requirements. Perhaps the license monitoring is more sophisticated that I
thought though.
I think you're applying the "Enterprise" requirement to the wrong
piece of software -- it is a *Windows Terminal Server* requirement,
not an Office requirement.

Now that is entirely plausible. Until this article I was recalling I had
never even heard of an Enterprise version of Office so I might have gotten
the term applied to the wrong piece. That being said I have never heard of
an Enterprise version of a server OS from Microsoft either. I thought there
was simply "Small Business Edition" and "regular". Perhaps the Office 2007
requirement is simply that you can't use SBE?

Well, enough with this speculation. I just found the document outlining
licensing requirements for TS on Windows Server 2003 at this link...

http://download.microsoft.com/downl...ion_with_windows_server_terminal_services.doc.

Here is the relevant section...
-----------------------------------------------
Use of Microsoft desktop applications in a Terminal Services environment
requires that the license acquired for the desktops from which the desktop
application is remotely accessed matches the suite/edition, components,
language, and version of the copy of the application being accessed. For
example:

Product (or suite): Microsoft Office Standard 2007 and Microsoft Office
Professional Plus 2007 are different products (or suites). A desktop
licensed for Office Standard 2007 may not remotely access and use Office
Professional Plus 2007.

Components: A license for a suite (e.g., a Microsoft Office system suite)
for the accessing desktop must have exactly the same components as the copy
of the Microsoft Office suite being remotely accessed.

Language: The English/multilanguage version of the Microsoft Office suite
may not be accessed remotely from a desktop, which is licensed for a single
language version of the Microsoft Office suite. Likewise, remote access to a
licensed copy of Microsoft Office Multi-Language Pack 2007 requires the
accessing desktop be licensed for the Office Multi-Language Pack 2007.

Version: Microsoft Office 2003 and the 2007 Microsoft Office system are
different versions. You may not remotely access the 2007 Microsoft Office
system from a desktop that is licensed for Microsoft Office 2003.

With the release of the 2007 Microsoft Office system, generally only
licenses obtained through the Microsoft Volume Licensing Program can be
deployed to a network server for remote access. Most retail (full packaged
product) and original equipment manufacturer (OEM) licenses for products
released in the 2007 release timeframe do not permit network use.

-----------------------------------------------

So by "Enterprise" what they really mean is that Office 2007 only works over
TS with a volume license key rather than standard or OEM licenses. It is
still not clear to me that the licensing requirements of older Office
versions are legal versus technical, but I did find a discussion on MSDN
forums where the poster could not get Office 2007 to work over TS until he
switched to a volume license so in the case of 2007 the requirement appears
to be a technical one.

The document does not specifically address the runtime. Any of the
following are easy to believe...

1) Runtime works since it has no license requirements.

2) Runtime doesn't work because of volume license requirements and this is
intentionally how MS wants it to behave. IOW they no longer want people
using the runtime in a TS environment.

3) Runtime doesn't work because of volume license requirements and this is
NOT what MS actually intended. They simply forgot to consider the
ramifications to the runtime when they changed the licensing requirements.

I find all three of those believable, but somewhat less so for number 1
until we hear from at least one person who reports using the runtime over TS
successfully (and where they do not have volume licensing in place).
 
D

David W. Fenton

David said:
[]
I think you're applying the "Enterprise" requirement to the wrong
piece of software -- it is a *Windows Terminal Server*
requirement, not an Office requirement.

Now that is entirely plausible. Until this article I was
recalling I had never even heard of an Enterprise version of
Office so I might have gotten the term applied to the wrong piece.
That being said I have never heard of an Enterprise version of a
server OS from Microsoft either. I thought there was simply
"Small Business Edition" and "regular". Perhaps the Office 2007
requirement is simply that you can't use SBE?

Er, no version of SBS has ever allowed you to run Terminal Server,
except for the two default administrative logons. It's one of the
great deficiencies of SBS that has caused me to avoid it for my
clients, even though some of them could have saved a lot of money if
it supported WTS.

I don't know about the editions of Windows Server 2000, but 2003 had
a whole bunch of versions, SBS, Standard, Enterprise and maybe
something in between Standard and Enterprise.
Well, enough with this speculation. I just found the document
outlining licensing requirements for TS on Windows Server 2003 at
this link...

http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/7/7/17745e4a-5d31-4de4-a41
6-07c646336d94/desktop_application_with_windows_server_terminal_ser
vices.doc.
[snip]

So by "Enterprise" what they really mean is that Office 2007 only
works over TS with a volume license key rather than standard or
OEM licenses. It is still not clear to me that the licensing
requirements of older Office versions are legal versus technical,
but I did find a discussion on MSDN forums where the poster could
not get Office 2007 to work over TS until he switched to a volume
license so in the case of 2007 the requirement appears to be a
technical one.

Maybe you're right and the Server version didn't matter (as long as
that version supported WTS, i.e., any version but SBS, except for
the admin logons).
The document does not specifically address the runtime. Any of
the following are easy to believe...

1) Runtime works since it has no license requirements.

2) Runtime doesn't work because of volume license requirements and
this is intentionally how MS wants it to behave. IOW they no
longer want people using the runtime in a TS environment.

3) Runtime doesn't work because of volume license requirements and
this is NOT what MS actually intended. They simply forgot to
consider the ramifications to the runtime when they changed the
licensing requirements.

I find all three of those believable, but somewhat less so for
number 1 until we hear from at least one person who reports using
the runtime over TS successfully (and where they do not have
volume licensing in place).

As an MVP, could you contact someone on the Access team and clarify
this for certain? I think it would be good if there were a
definitive answer, and I'm not in a position to get one.
 
R

Rick Brandt

David said:
As an MVP, could you contact someone on the Access team and clarify
this for certain? I think it would be good if there were a
definitive answer, and I'm not in a position to get one.

I can certainly ask the question.
 
D

David W. Fenton

According to two replies I received, the 2007 runtime is supposed
to work on TS.

That's what I would have expected. Did anyone allude to any special
tricks for making it work?

It would be really helpful if the Access team blogged about it, I
think.
 

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