Intermediate/Advanced Table tips/tutorials ?

[Brightbelt]

Hello -
FP 2003, Win XP Pro here. I'm an intermediate (lower intermediate at
least !) user of Frontpage and have regular knowledge of how to use tables.
But yesterday when Jim (Buyens, I believe) gave me advice in this newsgroup
on setting a table in my DWT for non-editable and editable content, it blew
me away. (He recommended setting left vertical navigation in the left cell
set to 1% and the editable content cell to the right at 99%). I realized I
have alot to learn, or at least that my thinking has been mis-directed about
how tables work.
Are there any online tutorials or books that offer these kind of
real-application tips and techniques for tables in FP 2003 ?
I own several books (Jim Buyens' "Frontpage 2003 Inside Out" for one) and
have spot-read on this subject in several other books as well, but alot of
the information tells you how to put a table together, not how you SHOULD
put a table together, given your specific design objectives.
I'd appreciate any direction anyone can give me of where to go learn more
about this subject. Thanks for helping,...Frank
www.frankbright.com

 

[Steve Easton]

The 1% and 99% figures don't sound right to me??
I could see 20% and 80%


--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

 

[Brightbelt]

Hi Steve -
Thanks for replying. You may have to ask Jim on that !! I even stated
that I'd never have thought of it myself. (In case others need a reference,
this is about the 'Brightbelt' post on 6/9 titled "Problem centering tables
after DWT's") Your comments were very helpful as well, but I wasn't exactly
sure how to structure the table from your instructions. I read it again
just now and I think you are talking about one (1) 100% table, split into 2
columns, into which a table is nested into each column/cell: The left cell
gets the left aligned table with the jazzgroupwind photo and the navigation
table below it, centered right. Then a full 100% table goes into the right
column of the 1st main table and that holds my content. Is this right ?
Thanks,...Frank

PS Of course, I'm still open to hearing about good tutorial leads etc

 

[Steve Easton]

That sounds right to me.
A 2 column table. One column at 20% and one at 80% or whatever percentages work for what you are
doing.
1% wouldn't be large enough to display anything.

In a table, the total of the column percentages should not exceed 100%

As for DWT tutorials, I searched MSDN and the Knowledge Base for some info for you and came up empty
handed.
Found a lot of info about how FrontPage incorporates them, but nothing about creating them.

I personally don't use DWT's, I use Include pages.

However, a table is a table no matter how you incorporate it into a page.

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

 

[Ronx]

I use this trick often.
Setting the left column at 1% makes it very small - but it will expand
to accommodate the content placed in it, the extra space being taken
proportionately from other columns in the table. This does slow down
table rendering by a few microseconds, however. This is the sizing
used by FrontPage shared borders (though that is not a *good*
example).
As the browser viewport is made larger, the left column stays at the
same size until 1% of the table width exceeds the width of the
content - effectively creating a fixed width column using percentage
widths, until a very wide browser is used.
The remaining columns, of course, have to add up to 99%.

 

[Stefan B Rusynko]

20% wouldn't work in his site
- He has a 200 px image / nav bar that he wants to keep tight and left aligned
- so at 1000px+ wide the 1st column would be too wide




| The 1% and 99% figures don't sound right to me??
| I could see 20% and 80%
|
|
| --
| Steve Easton
| Microsoft MVP FrontPage
| 95isalive
| This site is best viewed............
| .......................with a computer
|
| > Hello -
| > FP 2003, Win XP Pro here. I'm an intermediate (lower intermediate at
| > least !) user of Frontpage and have regular knowledge of how to use tables.
| > But yesterday when Jim (Buyens, I believe) gave me advice in this newsgroup
| > on setting a table in my DWT for non-editable and editable content, it blew
| > me away. (He recommended setting left vertical navigation in the left cell
| > set to 1% and the editable content cell to the right at 99%). I realized I
| > have alot to learn, or at least that my thinking has been mis-directed about
| > how tables work.
| > Are there any online tutorials or books that offer these kind of
| > real-application tips and techniques for tables in FP 2003 ?
| > I own several books (Jim Buyens' "Frontpage 2003 Inside Out" for one) and
| > have spot-read on this subject in several other books as well, but alot of
| > the information tells you how to put a table together, not how you SHOULD
| > put a table together, given your specific design objectives.
| > I'd appreciate any direction anyone can give me of where to go learn more
| > about this subject. Thanks for helping,...Frank
| > www.frankbright.com
| >
| >
|
|

 

[Stefan B Rusynko]

It was my response to you other post and yes that structure would work
A 100% 2 row table, split into 2 columns , into which a table is nested into each column/cell
(1st column cells set at 200 px wide, second column cells set at no width (implied 100%)

The top left cell gets the 200px center aligned table jazzgroupwind photo (200px)
The bottom left cell gets the navigation table in it, centered right cells.
Then the top right cell gets your center aligned header
and the bottom right cell gets a 100% width table for your page content



| Hi Steve -
| Thanks for replying. You may have to ask Jim on that !! I even stated
| that I'd never have thought of it myself. (In case others need a reference,
| this is about the 'Brightbelt' post on 6/9 titled "Problem centering tables
| after DWT's") Your comments were very helpful as well, but I wasn't exactly
| sure how to structure the table from your instructions. I read it again
| just now and I think you are talking about one (1) 100% table, split into 2
| columns, into which a table is nested into each column/cell: The left cell
| gets the left aligned table with the jazzgroupwind photo and the navigation
| table below it, centered right. Then a full 100% table goes into the right
| column of the 1st main table and that holds my content. Is this right ?
| Thanks,...Frank
|
| PS Of course, I'm still open to hearing about good tutorial leads etc
|
|
| | > The 1% and 99% figures don't sound right to me??
| > I could see 20% and 80%
| >
| >
| > --
| > Steve Easton
| > Microsoft MVP FrontPage
| > 95isalive
| > This site is best viewed............
| > .......................with a computer
| >
| > | >> Hello -
| >> FP 2003, Win XP Pro here. I'm an intermediate (lower intermediate at
| >> least !) user of Frontpage and have regular knowledge of how to use
| >> tables.
| >> But yesterday when Jim (Buyens, I believe) gave me advice in this
| >> newsgroup
| >> on setting a table in my DWT for non-editable and editable content, it
| >> blew
| >> me away. (He recommended setting left vertical navigation in the left
| >> cell
| >> set to 1% and the editable content cell to the right at 99%). I realized
| >> I
| >> have alot to learn, or at least that my thinking has been mis-directed
| >> about
| >> how tables work.
| >> Are there any online tutorials or books that offer these kind of
| >> real-application tips and techniques for tables in FP 2003 ?
| >> I own several books (Jim Buyens' "Frontpage 2003 Inside Out" for one)
| >> and
| >> have spot-read on this subject in several other books as well, but alot
| >> of
| >> the information tells you how to put a table together, not how you SHOULD
| >> put a table together, given your specific design objectives.
| >> I'd appreciate any direction anyone can give me of where to go learn
| >> more
| >> about this subject. Thanks for helping,...Frank
| >> www.frankbright.com
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|

 

[Rob Giordano \(Crash Gordon®\)]

That sounds like a great trick...thanks!

I use this trick often.
Setting the left column at 1% makes it very small - but it will expand
to accommodate the content placed in it, the extra space being taken
proportionately from other columns in the table. This does slow down
table rendering by a few microseconds, however. This is the sizing
used by FrontPage shared borders (though that is not a *good*
example).
As the browser viewport is made larger, the left column stays at the
same size until 1% of the table width exceeds the width of the
content - effectively creating a fixed width column using percentage
widths, until a very wide browser is used.
The remaining columns, of course, have to add up to 99%.

 

[Cheryl D Wise]

It would work fine in IE because IE will expand a container to hold the
contents by default. Problem is not every browser will do that.

Tina uses includes with DWTs and has a free ebook (registration required)
link at http://starttoweb.com/ebooks/index.php or the direct pageto register
is is at http://tinyurl.com/5br7d