Is PS2007 Ready For Primetime?

P

PG

We have been installing and testing PS2007. To prepare, we sent one person to
MS administrator training and another to WSS training. We also purchased the
new books on Project 2007. We currently run PS 2003. We made a decision to
install 2007 totally separately on a new machine and isolated from our
ongoing work. We are also attending the Project conference.
Here is what we have found.
1. The courses offered by MS are just not very valuable. They are
disorganized. The course on administering PS2007 was far too IT – not really
about the central issues of having a PS.
2. The installation documentation is poor. There are lots of words. But,
having written lots of documentation, it looks to me as if the writers were
not actually sitting in front of a machine doing an install from scratch –
and better yet having someone who has not been involved do the install. The
documentation is not always clear which account to use and in what context.
3. We also found the cube building as described did not work. We found a fix
on a totally different web page not related to PS. The fix worked. We have
posted that.
4. The point of 2 and 3 is to ask MS to do things from scratch to the end.
They could also use screen shots!
5. In 2003 (as borrowed from previous work) there were Project Server
guides. These were not IT manuals on how to install only – but also about how
to configure and run the system. There are really no good books yet. We
bought Marmel but it’s too incomplete on the server configuration. There are
many other people writing books but they aren’t ready. The online help is not
any better. When you are trying to use a system, you want to understand the
logic of the choices you make.
6. The WServices (PSI) view makes total sense from the position of
separation of data from application. But, when you design a web service you
might not be doing the specific one that a specific application needs.
(Remember hailstorm?) MS writes “general†psi services – like they write
general “buttons†for visual studio. They don’t write the best – just working
ones. MS decided not to provide documentation to the structure of the
database(s) nor how they are used or the values or relationships. By doing so
they deny easy development of software for specific use – yes, in violation
of separation – but when done carefully this is OK.
7. Our current experience also suggests that the PSI web services are not
well tested and we just can’t trust them for everything. We have used them
for some things that work and others that don’t.
8. We have specific needs to access the data for a very specific report
where PSI does not work. So, we have studied the database structure – and it
is WAY better than before. The prior version had all the complexities of two
representations of the same thing. Keys had to be remapped between
contexts..thanks for cleaning that up. But, HOW COME you don’t use
referential integrity? Having FK’s would help understand how your tables
relate. This also raises for me the question of where to you enforce
integrity? Gosh, I hope you aren’t doing it in code – but I guess MS is
because I don’t see the FK’s in the database design. I am also surprised the
values in the tables are not controlled by other tables. Instead, like in the
“task values†for enterprise fields you have a PSI enumeration but no table.
How come? Why are you putting values in code? Why don’t you put things in the
DB so that errors can’t be introduced?
9. We have been thoroughly perplexed at the inability of the “importâ€
function of PS2007. It creates duplicate enterprise fields. We think we can
remove them at the db level. This problem has been reported in the discussion
group. This is so basic – how can we then trust the system in more
sophisticated areas? We have found if you create a project new, you won’t get
this issue. We had decided not to use the migrate just because we really
didn’t trust that – but instead wanted to bring down each project from our
current system, save it as mpp, then upload – and check it as we uploaded. We
are really frustrated about this. We also found that during import, if a
calendar is rejected at step 5 – after you have spent lots of times getting
all mappings straight – that the process can find an invalid calendar and
even though you are given the option to change it – that doesn’t work. We
tried to just change our offending calendar to standard – which “has to work’
– but it didn’t.
10. And due to lack of documentation, we are having a hard time figuring out
how to turn things off we don’t need or want. Or, how to fix things.
11. We have experienced repeated crashes of the Fat Client (Project
Professional) on Vista 32. It seems that once something “goes wrong†you are
susceptible to repeated crashing. The only solution was to go into the
directories where MS stores things in your profile and physically delete the
global.mpt and then delete all other subdirectories. The crash stops – we
hope. At least it did for last day.

So, is PS2007 ready for production? Should we wait for SP1 – a much needed
one! Also, is anyone aware of hotfixes yet? We have a comprehensive support
from MS but wonder if its worth trying to get them?

BTW, thanks millions to all those MVP and others who comment on this
board—your work has been invaluable.
 
J

James Fraser

We have been installing and testing PS2007. To prepare, we sent one person to
MS administrator training and another to WSS training. We also purchased the
new books on Project 2007. We currently run PS 2003. We made a decision to
install 2007 totally separately on a new machine and isolated from our
ongoing work. We are also attending the Project conference.
Here is what we have found. ....[many good points removed]
So, is PS2007 ready for production? Should we wait for SP1 - a much needed
one! Also, is anyone aware of hotfixes yet? We have a comprehensive support
from MS but wonder if its worth trying to get them?

Is PS 2007 ready for production? My answer to that is a qualified
"yes." If someone is currently performing a new installation of
Project Server, I think they should install 2007, and not 2003. Some
of the features (task drivers, change highlighting, out-of-the-box
task level OLAP analysis, and better WAN/slow LAN performance) can
quickly outweigh the issues that are present. Those issues are
present, but I am sure that installing SP1 or other patches to fix
them will be less effort than installing 2003 and then migrating to
2007.

If a company is currently using 2003, then I think the decision is
more complicated, without a clear answer one way or another. If the
company has custom code and relies upon the system for billing, then
take your time with the upgrade.

I'll add my opinions to a few of the issues you raised. If I dropped
one of your issues, it's because I agree completely or don't have the
experience to weigh in.
2. The installation documentation is poor. There are lots of words. But,
having written lots of documentation, it looks to me as if the writers were
not actually sitting in front of a machine doing an install from scratch -
and better yet having someone who has not been involved do the install. The
documentation is not always clear which account to use and in what context.
I strongly agree. Further more, much of the support and testing seems
to have been performed without using the recommended service account
structure. I've personally run into two reproducible bugs that were
resolved if service accounts with local administrator rights are used
for Project Server 2007 instead of the recommended three service
accounts with minimal privileges.

If someone wants a decent install, plan on installing a couple of
times or more as practice. Go in planning to ditch the first
installation once you've got it up. You'll take a lot of pressure off
of yourself and end up with a better server.
8. We have specific needs to access the data for a very specific report
where PSI does not work. So, we have studied the database structure - and it
is WAY better than before. . . .

Another particular issue of mine is the decision to black box all of
the databases except the reporting database. And then the data in the
reporting database is not even close to complete. Many of our clients'
favorite or most needed reports rely on data that MS seems to have
decided no one should report on. No predecessor or successor links? No
task update information? No user security or Group membership info?
argh... Benefit: I am getting pretty good at reverse engineering.
9. . . . We had decided not to use the migrate just because we really
didn't trust that - but instead wanted to bring down each project from our
current system, save it as mpp, then upload - and check it as we uploaded. We
are really frustrated about this. . . .

Having migrated several production 2003 instances, I can say that our
migrations went more smoothly than expected. They were performed as
over-the-weekend cut overs without multiple migrations and we found
very few data problems. We usually performed a test migration on the
prior weekend. Most of our issues are/were because of the usual 2007
bugs.

One hotfix that I strongly recommend is KB 937907 (
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/937907/en-us ). This is a fix for
Project Pro that resolves issues with the custom fields displaying
improperly and not allowing you to select the correct custom field
value. I have run into this issue on almost every 2007 deployment.


my 2 pennies...
James Fraser
 
D

Dale Howard [MVP]

PG --

I like James Fraser's previous comments. His thinking is sound and his
advice is sage.

Although Project Server 2007 seems to have many bugs and has some design
flaws that make it somewhat clumsy to use (the lack of automatic interaction
between the My Timesheet page and the My Tasks page, for example), I think
that the software offers many new powerful and useful features. To address
the bugs, Microsoft has already released three Hotfixes for the software,
two of which are for Project Server 2007, and the other for Project
Professional 2007. You can obtain these Hotfixes by making a support call
to Microsoft, and the support call will be free after you note you need the
Hotfixes.

As to whether it is ready for primetime, that is always up for debate. If
you are using a stable Project Server 2003 environment, you might simply
wait until Microsoft releases SP1 for Project Server 2007 before you
migrate. If you see business value in Project Server 2007 that can help
your organization right now, you could certainly move immediately to Project
Server 2007, knowing that you will face some struggles with the known bugs.
Then when Microsoft releases SP1, I'm sure that will solve a lot of the bug
issues.

Just an additional thought. Hope this helps.
 
B

Ben Howard

I'd tend to agree with much of what you have said, especially re training and
documentation; however, lets not forget that P2002 was much the worse in
terms of documentation, and it took 18 months before P2003 was released,
along with much needed and updated documentation - at least this time we have
some documentation, as well as the "official" blogs, plus a tonne of
unofficial ones.

What I find really frustrating is MS have created all these features, but
no-one out there is really telling us how they envisaged that they should be
used, (some obvious, some not) and this is especially true of some of the
permissions, we're kind of just left to reverse engineer everything to see
how it works.

I'm not a dev, but a comment about the PSI - apparently MS use them for
their interface for the PWA & Pro clients, so they must be working, again
this might be a lack of documenation or perhaps they are relying on code
inbuilt to Project for some of the other functions (eg calendar manipulation).

So yes, I'm frustrated sometimes, but lets not forget that this product is a
big step forward from the last one, and 90% of the improvements are going to
be very useful.
 
G

Gary L. Chefetz [MVP]

I'll bite, here we go:

1 - 5: Help is on the way. Our Implementing and Administering book which
will be available next month addresses your concerns here, and includes the
instructions and illustrations you need to achieve success the first time.
Our courses have been running for months, so "excellence" in training is
available to you. As far as using the software, our Managing Enterprise
Projects book has been available since early July and we've been offering
the training since May. I don't think you'll find a better reference.

6: I wouldn't hesitate to hit the database if you need to. But, be careful
not to paint yourself into a corner.

7: I have to agree. Nothing, absolutely nothing in this release could be
characterized as "well tested." It's patently shameful.

8: You are correct that the DB design is much improved, however referential
integrity is handled programatically as it was in prior versions.

9: I feel your pain on this one. I hope this is fixed in SP1.

10: It's much easier to control the features in 2007 than in previous
versions. I think that this is the least of the issues.

11: I've been using it on Vista without problems, so I don't know what might
be going wrong here, other than the local cache, wich is AFU at the moment.
I delete my local cache every day, sometimes more often, so that may be the
difference. Vista has its own boatload of issues, but that's a topic for
another NG.

I think "prime time" has to be defined based on your requirements. There are
certainly some scenarios that aren't deployable with the software in its
current state, yet there are others for which it works fine. Let's hope that
SP1 addresses the show stoppers.

--

Gary L. Chefetz, MVP
MSProjectExperts
For Project Server Consulting: http://www.msprojectexperts.com
For Project Server FAQS: http://www.projectserverexperts.com
 
A

anovak

MS administrator training and another to WSS training. We also purchased the
new books on Project 2007. We currently run PS 2003. We made a decision to
install 2007 totally separately on a new machine and isolated from our
ongoing work. We are also attending the Project conference.
Here is what we have found.

...[many good points removed]
So, is PS2007 ready for production? Should we wait for SP1 - a much needed
one! Also, is anyone aware of hotfixes yet? We have a comprehensive support
from MS but wonder if its worth trying to get them?

Is PS 2007 ready for production? My answer to that is a qualified
"yes." If someone is currently performing a new installation of
Project Server, I think they should install 2007, and not 2003. Some
of the features (task drivers, change highlighting, out-of-the-box
task level OLAP analysis, and better WAN/slow LAN performance) can
quickly outweigh the issues that are present. Those issues are
present, but I am sure that installing SP1 or other patches to fix
them will be less effort than installing 2003 and then migrating to
2007.

If a company is currently using 2003, then I think the decision is
more complicated, without a clear answer one way or another. If the
company has custom code and relies upon the system for billing, then
take your time with the upgrade.

I'll add my opinions to a few of the issues you raised. If I dropped
one of your issues, it's because I agree completely or don't have the
experience to weigh in.> 2. The installation documentation is poor. There are lots of words. But,
having written lots of documentation, it looks to me as if the writers were
not actually sitting in front of a machine doing an install from scratch -
and better yet having someone who has not been involved do the install. The
documentation is not always clear which account to use and in what context.

I strongly agree. Further more, much of the support and testing seems
to have been performed without using the recommended service account
structure. I've personally run into two reproducible bugs that were
resolved if service accounts with local administrator rights are used
for Project Server 2007 instead of the recommended three service
accounts with minimal privileges.

If someone wants a decent install, plan on installing a couple of
times or more as practice. Go in planning to ditch the first
installation once you've got it up. You'll take a lot of pressure off
of yourself and end up with a better server.
8. We have specific needs to access the data for a very specific report
where PSI does not work. So, we have studied the database structure - and it
is WAY better than before. . . .

Another particular issue of mine is the decision to black box all of
the databases except the reporting database. And then the data in the
reporting database is not even close to complete. Many of our clients'
favorite or most needed reports rely on data that MS seems to have
decided no one should report on. No predecessor or successor links? No
task update information? No user security or Group membership info?
argh... Benefit: I am getting pretty good at reverse engineering.
9. . . . We had decided not to use the migrate just because we really
didn't trust that - but instead wanted to bring down each project from our
current system, save it as mpp, then upload - and check it as we uploaded. We
are really frustrated about this. . . .

Having migrated several production 2003 instances, I can say that our
migrations went more smoothly than expected. They were performed as
over-the-weekend cut overs without multiple migrations and we found
very few data problems. We usually performed a test migration on the
prior weekend. Most of our issues are/were because of the usual 2007
bugs.

One hotfix that I strongly recommend is KB 937907 (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/937907/en-us). This is a fix for
Project Pro that resolves issues with the custom fields displaying
improperly and not allowing you to select the correct custom field
value. I have run into this issue on almost every 2007 deployment.

my 2 pennies...
James Fraser

James,

Does 937907 fix the disappearing data? That is, let's say I select a
value from a multi-node custom field
(e.g., Location.Dept.Division.Group.Team), save the project and then
sometime later when I go back in and pull up
the dialog box to display the custom fields, the value in the field
just populated is BLANK?

Also, I noticed when you have a multi-node custom field that forces
you to select the lowest level "child" in the hierarchy,
I gosh-awful ugly grey/black folder is displayed as the parent with
weird looking notches on top and bottom.

What's the deal with this 2nd one (normal?) and is 937907 supposed to
fix either one of these above???

Thanks,
Andy Novak
UNT
 

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