Is this the right newsgroup for IE css questions?

Dave Rado · Mar 30, 2008

Hi

I'm having problems getting with older (v5.5 and 6) versions of IE to render
correctly when using css - is this the right newsgroup to post this
questions about this to? If not, please could someone suggest a better one?
The people at the non-Microsoft css newsgroups don't seem to be interested
in trying to solve IE-specific problems, especially not for IE5.5, which
so0me of them are dismissive of the users of (but there are still quite a
lot of IE5.5 users, so it's a problem).

Dave

Rob Giordano \(Crash\) · Mar 30, 2008

Quite a lot?...like less than 2%.
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

You can ask here someone will help.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression

| Hi
|
| I'm having problems getting with older (v5.5 and 6) versions of IE to
render
| correctly when using css - is this the right newsgroup to post this
| questions about this to? If not, please could someone suggest a better
one?
| The people at the non-Microsoft css newsgroups don't seem to be interested
| in trying to solve IE-specific problems, especially not for IE5.5, which
| so0me of them are dismissive of the users of (but there are still quite a
| lot of IE5.5 users, so it's a problem).
|
| Dave
|
|

Ronx · Mar 30, 2008

Can vary with web sites - Thanks to corporate policy some of my pages
still get a lot of hits (10%) from Netscape 4 users, though IE 5.5 and
earlier is almost zero.

Dave Rado · Mar 30, 2008

Hi Rob

| Quite a lot?...like less than 2%.
| http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Yes, 1.7% of millions of people is still a large number of people. It means
that if I get 1000 visitors a day (and I expect to get a lot more than
that), 17 of them on average will probably be IE5.5 users. There are more
IE5.5 users than Opera users, and almost as many IE5.5 users as Safari users
(Mac and Windows combined).

| You can ask here someone will help.

Thanks - here's my first question.

See my mock-up of a table at http://tinyurl.com/3cvjzc. It displays
correctly in all non-IE browsers and in IE6, 7 and 8; but in IE5.5 the
outside borders of the table don't display, for some reason that I haven't
been able to get to the bottom of. Can anyone work out what it is
specifically about my table that IE5.5 can't cope with, and what I need to
tweak in my css (using conditional comments if necessary) in order to get it
to display correctly in IE5.5?

Dave

Thomas A. Rowe · Mar 30, 2008

I would just do the following with plain HTML:

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="550">
<tr>
<td width="100%" bgcolor="#808080">
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" width="100%">
<tr>
<td width="20%" bgcolor="#FF8700" valign="middle" align="center"><font face="Verdana"
size="2" color="#FFFFFF"><b>Heading</b></font></td>
<td width="60%" bgcolor="#FF8700" valign="middle" align="center"><font face="Verdana"
size="2" color="#FFFFFF"><b>Heading</b></font></td>
<td width="10%" bgcolor="#FF8700" valign="middle" align="center"><font face="Verdana"
size="2" color="#FFFFFF"><b>Heading</b></font></td>
<td width="10%" bgcolor="#FF8700" valign="middle" align="center"><font face="Verdana"
size="2" color="#FFFFFF"><b>Heading</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="20%" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><font face="Verdana" size="2"
color="#000000">Text</font></td>
<td width="60%" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><font face="Verdana" size="2"
color="#000000">text</font></td>
<td width="10%" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" valign="middle" align="center"><font face="Verdana"
size="2" color="#000000">4</font></td>
<td width="10%" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" valign="middle" align="center"><font face="Verdana"
size="2" color="#000000">1</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="20%" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><font face="Verdana" size="2"
color="#000000">Text</font></td>
<td width="25%" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><font face="Verdana" size="2"
color="#000000">text</font></td>
<td width="10%" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" valign="middle" align="center"><font face="Verdana"
size="2" color="#000000">4</font></td>
<td width="10%" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" valign="middle" align="center"><font face="Verdana"
size="2" color="#000000">4</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="20%" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><font face="Verdana" size="2"
color="#000000"><b>Total</b></font></td>
<td width="60%" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> </td>
<td width="10%" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" valign="middle" align="center"><font face="Verdana"
size="2" color="#000000"><b>17</b></font></td>
<td width="10%" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" valign="middle" align="center"><font face="Verdana"
size="2" color="#000000"><b>14</b></font></td>
</tr>
</table></td>
</tr>
</table>

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
http://www.Ecom-Data.com
==============================================

Ronx · Mar 30, 2008

IE5.5 seems to use the table border in preference to the table cell
borders.
Changing the table CSS definition to
table.Bordered {border-collapse: collapse; border: 2px solid grey;
width: 550px}

will have the same effect (in this example) as adding a conditional
comment for IE5:

Dave Rado · Mar 30, 2008

Hi Ron

| 

That works - many thanks!

Dave

Dave Rado · Mar 30, 2008

Hi again Ron

I've just read your post more carefully and tested it, and you're quite
right, no conditional comment is required, it's better and simpler to change
the main css definition in the way you suggest.

Many thanks again.

Dave

| Changing the table CSS definition to
| table.Bordered {border-collapse: collapse; border: 2px solid grey;
| width: 550px}
|
| will have the same effect (in this example) as adding a conditional
| comment for IE5:
|
| 
|
| --
| Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
| Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
|
| http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
|
|
|
|
| |
| > Hi Rob
| >
| > | Quite a lot?...like less than 2%.
| > | http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
| >
| > Yes, 1.7% of millions of people is still a large number of people. It
means
| > that if I get 1000 visitors a day (and I expect to get a lot more than
| > that), 17 of them on average will probably be IE5.5 users. There are
more
| > IE5.5 users than Opera users, and almost as many IE5.5 users as Safari
users
| > (Mac and Windows combined).
| >
| >
| > | You can ask here someone will help.
| >
| > Thanks - here's my first question.
| >
| > See my mock-up of a table at http://tinyurl.com/3cvjzc. It displays
| > correctly in all non-IE browsers and in IE6, 7 and 8; but in IE5.5 the
| > outside borders of the table don't display, for some reason that I
haven't
| > been able to get to the bottom of. Can anyone work out what it is
| > specifically about my table that IE5.5 can't cope with, and what I need
to
| > tweak in my css (using conditional comments if necessary) in order to
get it
| > to display correctly in IE5.5?
| >
| > Dave
|

Dave Rado · Mar 30, 2008

Dave Rado · Mar 30, 2008

Sorry, Ron, I spoke to soon! That fixed it for that particular table, but I
have just tried it with a similar one and it isn't working - mock-up at same
address as before, http://tinyurl.com/3cvjzc. Can you see what I'm doing
wrong this time?

Sorry about this.

Dave

| IE5.5 seems to use the table border in preference to the table cell
| borders.
| Changing the table CSS definition to
| table.Bordered {border-collapse: collapse; border: 2px solid grey;
| width: 550px}
|
| will have the same effect (in this example) as adding a conditional
| comment for IE5:
|
| 
|
| --
| Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
| Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
|
| http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
|
|
|
|
| |
| > Hi Rob
| >
| > | Quite a lot?...like less than 2%.
| > | http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
| >
| > Yes, 1.7% of millions of people is still a large number of people. It
means
| > that if I get 1000 visitors a day (and I expect to get a lot more than
| > that), 17 of them on average will probably be IE5.5 users. There are
more
| > IE5.5 users than Opera users, and almost as many IE5.5 users as Safari
users
| > (Mac and Windows combined).
| >
| >
| > | You can ask here someone will help.
| >
| > Thanks - here's my first question.
| >
| > See my mock-up of a table at http://tinyurl.com/3cvjzc. It displays
| > correctly in all non-IE browsers and in IE6, 7 and 8; but in IE5.5 the
| > outside borders of the table don't display, for some reason that I
haven't
| > been able to get to the bottom of. Can anyone work out what it is
| > specifically about my table that IE5.5 can't cope with, and what I need
to
| > tweak in my css (using conditional comments if necessary) in order to
get it
| > to display correctly in IE5.5?
| >
| > Dave
|

Ronx · Mar 31, 2008

Spelling discrepancy:

grey is not the same as gray.

When all the grays are spelt the same, the display in IE5.5 and IE7 are
identical.

It seems that grey (as defined for the table border) is a lighter shade
than gray (as defined for the cell borders).
IE5.5 places the table border over the cell borders, whereas other
browsers place the Cell borders over the table border.

Dave Rado · Mar 31, 2008

Ron, If you were an eagle, all the other eagles would starve!

Damn American spelling imperialism - grrr! I'm going to use hex numbers for
colours from now on, it's much safer.

BTW, I've discovered that I do need to use a conditional comment after all,
because I sometimes want the bottom outside border of a table to be 1px
rather than 2px, in order to indicate that the table continues on the next
page; and if the table.Bordered style is defined in the main stylesheet as
2px, this becomes impossible; whereas with a conditional comment, it is at
least possible for me to do this in all browsers other than IE5.x.

Dave

| Spelling discrepancy:
|
| grey is not the same as gray.
|
| When all the grays are spelt the same, the display in IE5.5 and IE7 are
| identical.
|
| It seems that grey (as defined for the table border) is a lighter shade
| than gray (as defined for the cell borders).
| IE5.5 places the table border over the cell borders, whereas other
| browsers place the Cell borders over the table border.
|
| --
| Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
| Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
|
| http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
|
|
|
|
| |
| > Sorry, Ron, I spoke to soon! That fixed it for that particular table,
but I
| > have just tried it with a similar one and it isn't working - mock-up at
same
| > address as before, http://tinyurl.com/3cvjzc. Can you see what I'm doing
| > wrong this time?
| >
| > Sorry about this.
| >
| > Dave
| >
| >
| > | > | IE5.5 seems to use the table border in preference to the table cell
| > | borders.
| > | Changing the table CSS definition to
| > | table.Bordered {border-collapse: collapse; border: 2px solid grey;
| > | width: 550px}
| > |
| > | will have the same effect (in this example) as adding a conditional
| > | comment for IE5:
| > |
| > | 
| > |
| > | --
| > | Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
| > | Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
| > |
| > | http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > |
message
| > | | > |
| > | > Hi Rob
| > | >
| > | > | Quite a lot?...like less than 2%.
| > | > | http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
| > | >
| > | > Yes, 1.7% of millions of people is still a large number of people.
It
| > means
| > | > that if I get 1000 visitors a day (and I expect to get a lot more
than
| > | > that), 17 of them on average will probably be IE5.5 users. There are
| > more
| > | > IE5.5 users than Opera users, and almost as many IE5.5 users as
Safari
| > users
| > | > (Mac and Windows combined).
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | You can ask here someone will help.
| > | >
| > | > Thanks - here's my first question.
| > | >
| > | > See my mock-up of a table at http://tinyurl.com/3cvjzc. It displays
| > | > correctly in all non-IE browsers and in IE6, 7 and 8; but in IE5.5
the
| > | > outside borders of the table don't display, for some reason that I
| > haven't
| > | > been able to get to the bottom of. Can anyone work out what it is
| > | > specifically about my table that IE5.5 can't cope with, and what I
need
| > to
| > | > tweak in my css (using conditional comments if necessary) in order
to
| > get it
| > | > to display correctly in IE5.5?
| > | >
| > | > Dave
| > |
|

Dave Rado · Apr 1, 2008

I should have said in my last post - many thanks for your help with this,
Rob- it's greatly appreciated.

Dave

| Spelling discrepancy:
|
| grey is not the same as gray.
|
| When all the grays are spelt the same, the display in IE5.5 and IE7 are
| identical.
|
| It seems that grey (as defined for the table border) is a lighter shade
| than gray (as defined for the cell borders).
| IE5.5 places the table border over the cell borders, whereas other
| browsers place the Cell borders over the table border.
|
| --
| Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
| Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
|
| http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
|
|
|
|
| |
| > Sorry, Ron, I spoke to soon! That fixed it for that particular table,
but I
| > have just tried it with a similar one and it isn't working - mock-up at
same
| > address as before, http://tinyurl.com/3cvjzc. Can you see what I'm doing
| > wrong this time?
| >
| > Sorry about this.
| >
| > Dave
| >
| >
| > | > | IE5.5 seems to use the table border in preference to the table cell
| > | borders.
| > | Changing the table CSS definition to
| > | table.Bordered {border-collapse: collapse; border: 2px solid grey;
| > | width: 550px}
| > |
| > | will have the same effect (in this example) as adding a conditional
| > | comment for IE5:
| > |
| > | 
| > |
| > | --
| > | Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
| > | Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
| > |
| > | http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > |
message
| > | | > |
| > | > Hi Rob
| > | >
| > | > | Quite a lot?...like less than 2%.
| > | > | http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
| > | >
| > | > Yes, 1.7% of millions of people is still a large number of people.
It
| > means
| > | > that if I get 1000 visitors a day (and I expect to get a lot more
than
| > | > that), 17 of them on average will probably be IE5.5 users. There are
| > more
| > | > IE5.5 users than Opera users, and almost as many IE5.5 users as
Safari
| > users
| > | > (Mac and Windows combined).
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | You can ask here someone will help.
| > | >
| > | > Thanks - here's my first question.
| > | >
| > | > See my mock-up of a table at http://tinyurl.com/3cvjzc. It displays
| > | > correctly in all non-IE browsers and in IE6, 7 and 8; but in IE5.5
the
| > | > outside borders of the table don't display, for some reason that I
| > haven't
| > | > been able to get to the bottom of. Can anyone work out what it is
| > | > specifically about my table that IE5.5 can't cope with, and what I
need
| > to
| > | > tweak in my css (using conditional comments if necessary) in order
to
| > get it
| > | > to display correctly in IE5.5?
| > | >
| > | > Dave
| > |
|

Rob Giordano \(Crash\) · Apr 1, 2008

Mee? I dint do nuttin'.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression

| I should have said in my last post - many thanks for your help with this,
| Rob- it's greatly appreciated.
|
| Dave
|
|
| || Spelling discrepancy:
||
|| grey is not the same as gray.
||
|| When all the grays are spelt the same, the display in IE5.5 and IE7 are
|| identical.
||
|| It seems that grey (as defined for the table border) is a lighter shade
|| than gray (as defined for the cell borders).
|| IE5.5 places the table border over the cell borders, whereas other
|| browsers place the Cell borders over the table border.
||
|| --
|| Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
|| Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
||
|| http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
||
||
||
||
|| ||
|| > Sorry, Ron, I spoke to soon! That fixed it for that particular table,
| but I
|| > have just tried it with a similar one and it isn't working - mock-up at
| same
|| > address as before, http://tinyurl.com/3cvjzc. Can you see what I'm
doing
|| > wrong this time?
|| >
|| > Sorry about this.
|| >
|| > Dave
|| >
|| >
|| > || > | IE5.5 seems to use the table border in preference to the table cell
|| > | borders.
|| > | Changing the table CSS definition to
|| > | table.Bordered {border-collapse: collapse; border: 2px solid grey;
|| > | width: 550px}
|| > |
|| > | will have the same effect (in this example) as adding a conditional
|| > | comment for IE5:
|| > |
|| > | 
|| > |
|| > | --
|| > | Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
|| > | Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
|| > |
|| > | http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
|| > |
|| > |
|| > |
|| > |
| message
|| > | || > |
|| > | > Hi Rob
|| > | >
|| > | > | Quite a lot?...like less than 2%.
|| > | > | http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
|| > | >
|| > | > Yes, 1.7% of millions of people is still a large number of people.
| It
|| > means
|| > | > that if I get 1000 visitors a day (and I expect to get a lot more
| than
|| > | > that), 17 of them on average will probably be IE5.5 users. There
are
|| > more
|| > | > IE5.5 users than Opera users, and almost as many IE5.5 users as
| Safari
|| > users
|| > | > (Mac and Windows combined).
|| > | >
|| > | >
|| > | > | You can ask here someone will help.
|| > | >
|| > | > Thanks - here's my first question.
|| > | >
|| > | > See my mock-up of a table at http://tinyurl.com/3cvjzc. It displays
|| > | > correctly in all non-IE browsers and in IE6, 7 and 8; but in IE5.5
| the
|| > | > outside borders of the table don't display, for some reason that I
|| > haven't
|| > | > been able to get to the bottom of. Can anyone work out what it is
|| > | > specifically about my table that IE5.5 can't cope with, and what I
| need
|| > to
|| > | > tweak in my css (using conditional comments if necessary) in order
| to
|| > get it
|| > | > to display correctly in IE5.5?
|| > | >
|| > | > Dave
|| > |
||
|
|

Dave Rado · Apr 1, 2008

Sorry I meant many thanks for your help with this, Ron! (As in Ron Symonds).

Dave

| Mee? I dint do nuttin'.
|
|
| --
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Rob Giordano
| Microsoft MVP Expression
|
|
|
|
|
|
| || I should have said in my last post - many thanks for your help with this,
|| Rob- it's greatly appreciated.
||
|| Dave
||
||
|| ||| Spelling discrepancy:
|||
||| grey is not the same as gray.
|||
||| When all the grays are spelt the same, the display in IE5.5 and IE7 are
||| identical.
|||
||| It seems that grey (as defined for the table border) is a lighter shade
||| than gray (as defined for the cell borders).
||| IE5.5 places the table border over the cell borders, whereas other
||| browsers place the Cell borders over the table border.
|||
||| --
||| Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
||| Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
|||
||| http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
|||
|||
|||
|||
||| |||
||| > Sorry, Ron, I spoke to soon! That fixed it for that particular table,
|| but I
||| > have just tried it with a similar one and it isn't working - mock-up
at
|| same
||| > address as before, http://tinyurl.com/3cvjzc. Can you see what I'm
| doing
||| > wrong this time?
||| >
||| > Sorry about this.
||| >
||| > Dave
||| >
||| >
||| > ||| > | IE5.5 seems to use the table border in preference to the table cell
||| > | borders.
||| > | Changing the table CSS definition to
||| > | table.Bordered {border-collapse: collapse; border: 2px solid grey;
||| > | width: 550px}
||| > |
||| > | will have the same effect (in this example) as adding a conditional
||| > | comment for IE5:
||| > |
||| > | 
||| > |
||| > | --
||| > | Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
||| > | Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
||| > |
||| > | http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
||| > |
||| > |
||| > |
||| > |
|| message
||| > | ||| > |
||| > | > Hi Rob
||| > | >
||| > | > | Quite a lot?...like less than 2%.
||| > | > | http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
||| > | >
||| > | > Yes, 1.7% of millions of people is still a large number of people.
|| It
||| > means
||| > | > that if I get 1000 visitors a day (and I expect to get a lot more
|| than
||| > | > that), 17 of them on average will probably be IE5.5 users. There
| are
||| > more
||| > | > IE5.5 users than Opera users, and almost as many IE5.5 users as
|| Safari
||| > users
||| > | > (Mac and Windows combined).
||| > | >
||| > | >
||| > | > | You can ask here someone will help.
||| > | >
||| > | > Thanks - here's my first question.
||| > | >
||| > | > See my mock-up of a table at http://tinyurl.com/3cvjzc. It
displays
||| > | > correctly in all non-IE browsers and in IE6, 7 and 8; but in IE5.5
|| the
||| > | > outside borders of the table don't display, for some reason that I
||| > haven't
||| > | > been able to get to the bottom of. Can anyone work out what it is
||| > | > specifically about my table that IE5.5 can't cope with, and what I
|| need
||| > to
||| > | > tweak in my css (using conditional comments if necessary) in order
|| to
||| > get it
||| > | > to display correctly in IE5.5?
||| > | >
||| > | > Dave
||| > |
|||
||
||
|
|

Dave Rado · Apr 4, 2008

Hi Ron

I've found a better solution that doesn't require me to use conditional
comments:

table.Bordered {border-collapse: collapse; border: medium none}

.... works in all browsers, including IE5.

I discovered this by pasting a table from Word into FrontPage and looking at
the code it generated.

Dave

| IE5.5 seems to use the table border in preference to the table cell
| borders.
| Changing the table CSS definition to
| table.Bordered {border-collapse: collapse; border: 2px solid grey;
| width: 550px}
|
| will have the same effect (in this example) as adding a conditional
| comment for IE5:
|
| 
|
| --
| Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
| Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
|
| http://www.rxs-enterprises.org/fp
|
|
|
|
| |
| > Hi Rob
| >
| > | Quite a lot?...like less than 2%.
| > | http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
| >
| > Yes, 1.7% of millions of people is still a large number of people. It
means
| > that if I get 1000 visitors a day (and I expect to get a lot more than
| > that), 17 of them on average will probably be IE5.5 users. There are
more
| > IE5.5 users than Opera users, and almost as many IE5.5 users as Safari
users
| > (Mac and Windows combined).
| >
| >
| > | You can ask here someone will help.
| >
| > Thanks - here's my first question.
| >
| > See my mock-up of a table at http://tinyurl.com/3cvjzc. It displays
| > correctly in all non-IE browsers and in IE6, 7 and 8; but in IE5.5 the
| > outside borders of the table don't display, for some reason that I
haven't
| > been able to get to the bottom of. Can anyone work out what it is
| > specifically about my table that IE5.5 can't cope with, and what I need
to
| > tweak in my css (using conditional comments if necessary) in order to
get it
| > to display correctly in IE5.5?
| >
| > Dave
|

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Is this the right newsgroup for IE css questions?

Dave Rado

Rob Giordano \(Crash\)

Ronx

Dave Rado

Thomas A. Rowe

Ronx

Dave Rado

Dave Rado

Dave Rado

Dave Rado

Ronx

Dave Rado

Dave Rado

Rob Giordano \(Crash\)

Dave Rado

Dave Rado

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