Is using 'Styles' worth the trouble?

[Amund]

Where can I find a GOOD, COMPLETE tutorial on how Word's
styles work?

Do they work?

I've spent the last three days trying to create a
template with about a dozen different paragraph styles
(Normal, Three different types of lists (bulleted,
numbered, alpha) each with three levels of indent, a few
heading styles, and that's pretty much it) I've used the
styles that come with Word as the foundation, making
minor changes, mainly to the fonts. I've figured out how
to not have the dropdown list include all the hundreds of
other included styles that I don't want. Shouldn't be
that hard, right. Well it wasn't. But the end template
doesn't work.

For example:
I create a numbered list, each item one paragraph long,
then I have a para of regular text, then another numbered
list of four items. This second list starts numbering at
4. I don't want that, so I right-click on the first item
in the second list and choose 'Restart numbering.' Should
work, right? Well it doesn't. What happens is that both
the first and the second list get indented.

Now I go back and, instead of using the numbered list I
use the alpha list (A, B, C,...). Everything works fine.

So I go look for differences in the setup of the two
styles but can't find any (There are many, many, MANY
options!). Scratch that. Instead I go back to the
template, copy the alpha list style to a new style and
make ONE change - Instead of a,b,c, it will list 1,2,3.
Save it, open a new documet based on the revised template
and try the above again. Now neither the alpha nor the
numbered list works.

Three days! I give up! How does this work? Does it work?

Until I hear form someone I will recommend we use a
cheaper package than Word and simply format each
paragraph individually. Sure would have been faster on
this project!

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Except for quick throwaway documents, using styles is usually worth the
investment in time and effort, especially if they need to be updated and
maintained over time. But the way you have set up your list styles is
probably not correct. See
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html for
instructions on doing this correctly.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://www.mvps.org/word
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

 

[Charles Kenyon]

Yes, styles are worth learning and using. They are at the heart of how Word
works and if you don't understand them, you'll be mystified and troubled by
the results you get.

I will email you a web page on styles since my site is down. Automatic
numbering is a separate, and very complex, matter.

See: How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your Word
document
<URL: http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html>. This
is based on ...

Word's Numbering Explained
<URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Numbering/WordsNumberingExplained.htm>

How to Create a Template, Part II
<URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/CreateATemplatePart2.htm>

Legal Numbering
<URL: http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/numbering.htm>

Seven Laws of Outline Numbering
<URL: http://www.microsystems.com/fra_sevenlawsofoutlinenumbering.htm>

The following are some discussions on the Microsoft newsgroups on numbering:
Nightmare on ListNumbering Street <URL:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&th=9e790fa7ed2886b3,18&ic=1>
The Joy of Lists <URL:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&th=811287ebce8fc203,15&ic=1>
Relinking ListTemplates <URL:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&th=2350746054c838e,12&ic=1>
Outline numbering: restart doesn't restart <URL:
http://groups.google.com/[email protected]#p>
Format Doesn't "Hold" <URL:
http://groups.google.com/[email protected]#p>
(above list compiled by Dave Rado, Word MVP)

ListNumbering Street Revisited <URL:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&th=57df77857e4993ce>

See the latest numbering discussion I've seen, especially post #4 which
contains Dave Rado's concise instructions for setting up heading numbering.
<URL:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&ic=1&th=bce07d7714769f5c>

--

Charles Kenyon

See the MVP FAQ: <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/> which is awesome!
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[Guest]

As a noted cynic, here's where NOT to use Styles: When you are creating
things for OTHER people to use.

For your own use, absolutely use them, they are wonderful and will save you
time. (Trust us!)

However..... <Getting on my soapbox> We readers of newsgroups like this,
we want to do it right, learn features that save us time and improve our
ability to maintain our documents. Most OTHER people, though, they are not
and will not take the extra time to learn anything more about Word than they
absolutely have to, so things like Styles, "points above" paragraph settings
for perfect spacing, "page break before" section headings, your styles, your
work of art, will summarily be replaced with things like hard page breaks,
centering things with the space bar, and even using multiple carriage
returns to achieve page breaks. I'm not criticizing them, just pointing out
that it is extremely rare that you'll ever persuade a coworker to take the
time to learn styles, so in a situation like that, don't try to persuade
them.

So, use Styles for your own stuff, or to share with your other Word power
user buddies, (academic types probably will be the type who would appreciate
Styles too), but if you have to share or pass along documents to average
people, it may not be worth the effort.

I have a former coworker who inherited my work documents. She was a really
fast typer, and I learned later that she was retyping entire documents,
formatting them all manually, because she couldn't/didn't know how to use
Styles.

So, again, in summary.. Styles are wonderful for the people who take a bit
of time to learn them. For mere mortals.. perhaps don't bother.

-- j

 

[Shauna Kelly]

Hi Amund

It seems to me that there are four reasons to use styles:

1. It's faster. No argument. To apply, say, Heading 1 style to a paragraph, Ctrl-Alt-1. Or, there are several other ways to apply a
style, each only requiring a few clicks or key strokes.

But, to get the same "look" in direct formatting, you have to change the font, font size, bold/italics/underlined etc, the spacing
before and after the paragraph, the language, border, keep with next .... etc etc. And you have to remember each time which
formatting to apply (eg, did I decide that sub-headings would be 12pt or 14pt?).

2. It gives you a document that you *know* is consistently formatted. If you try to do it manually, you inevitably find yourself
going back to check, for example, that all the captions have the same indent.

3. It gives you access to all kinds of really useful things. For example, if you want the current heading on the top of every page,
use the STYLEREF field in the header. Or, if you want to refer to a table or a heading, use the cross reference functionality. Or,
you can create a table of contents in four mouse clicks--and if you later add some more headings, you can update your table of
contents with one keystroke.

4. But for me the most important reason is that it makes your documents robust. As an example (and try this on a *copy* of a
document, not the real thing), take a document that's formatted poorly. Ctrl-a, ctrl-q, ctrl-spacebar. In three keystrokes you can
destroy all the formatting in the document. I don't want my documents to be that fragile. But if the document is formatted by
applying appropriate styles then, using those three keystrokes, you'll probably lose a little bit of formatting. But the basic
format is still there.

So what are the downsides of formatting a document using styles?

Well, first it requires a bit of planning (though hopefully not as much pain as you've been through!).

Second, it requires that an author think about the *structure* of the document, and not just whether some words should be big or
bold or blue. That is, the writer has to decide that this document will have, say, 3 levels of headings, and captions to tables or
figures will be numbered in such and such a way. It's important for people to see that styles should be named for their function (eg
"Heading 1") and *not* their format (eg "big bold blue"). When they get over that hurdle, then they're on their way to seeing how
their document is structured. And then they can apply styles effectively.

Hope this helps.

Shauna Kelly. Microsoft MVP.
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word
Melbourne, Australia

 

[Amund]

I'm using the List styles that come with Word as the
basis for my, in my mind, minor changes (Alpha-to-
number). That's all I change! Why don't the edited styles
behave the same way as the parent? Why does the behaviour
of the parent change?
Wher can I find a document that explains, in english,
what the 49 different options do and how and why and
where they are intended to be used?

 

[Amund]

Shauna,
In thory I agree with you and understand, and agree, with
your points. But ony if the styles work in an intuitive
way. And can, easily and reliably be changed. I'm still
looking for a document that explains, in english, what
the 49 different options do, and what problems they are
supposed to solve.
If the styles included with Word behave differently from
one application to the next, in the same document(!) that
does not build confidence!

-----Original Message-----
Hi Amund

It seems to me that there are four reasons to use styles:

1. It's faster. No argument. To apply, say, Heading 1

style to a paragraph, Ctrl-Alt-1. Or, there are several
other ways to apply a

style, each only requiring a few clicks or key strokes.

But, to get the same "look" in direct formatting, you

have to change the font, font size,
bold/italics/underlined etc, the spacing

before and after the paragraph, the language, border,

keep with next .... etc etc. And you have to remember
each time which

formatting to apply (eg, did I decide that sub-headings would be 12pt or 14pt?).

2. It gives you a document that you *know* is

consistently formatted. If you try to do it manually, you
inevitably find yourself

going back to check, for example, that all the captions have the same indent.

3. It gives you access to all kinds of really useful

things. For example, if you want the current heading on
the top of every page,

use the STYLEREF field in the header. Or, if you want to

refer to a table or a heading, use the cross reference
functionality. Or,

you can create a table of contents in four mouse clicks--

and if you later add some more headings, you can update
your table of

contents with one keystroke.

4. But for me the most important reason is that it makes

your documents robust. As an example (and try this on a
*copy* of a

document, not the real thing), take a document that's

formatted poorly. Ctrl-a, ctrl-q, ctrl-spacebar. In three
keystrokes you can

destroy all the formatting in the document. I don't want

my documents to be that fragile. But if the document is
formatted by

applying appropriate styles then, using those three

keystrokes, you'll probably lose a little bit of
formatting. But the basic

format is still there.

So what are the downsides of formatting a document using styles?

Well, first it requires a bit of planning (though

hopefully not as much pain as you've been through!).

Second, it requires that an author think about the

*structure* of the document, and not just whether some
words should be big or

bold or blue. That is, the writer has to decide that

this document will have, say, 3 levels of headings, and
captions to tables or

figures will be numbered in such and such a way. It's

important for people to see that styles should be named
for their function (eg

"Heading 1") and *not* their format (eg "big bold

blue"). When they get over that hurdle, then they're on
their way to seeing how

 

[Dee]

I have just spent all day trying to format a 70 page
document using styles, and not only the doc but also the
styles in brand new documents using the default styles are
corrupt...

My answer: stay away from Word, and especially stay away
from its styles.

 

[Charles Kenyon]

I guess my advice would be to stay away from Word if you are not willing to
spend the time to learn how it works, especially styles. Use WordPad
instead, or if you have it, Word Perfect. To learn about styles, take a look
at <URL: http://addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm>.

Any chance your document is on a floppy disk? This causes corruption.

--

Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory:
<URL: http://addbalance.com/word/index.htm>

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide)
<URL: http://addbalance.com/usersguide/index.htm>

See also the MVP FAQ: <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/> which is awesome!
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.