Keep with Next overdoes it

[HONYAKUKA]

Word2000

Example: A paragraph of, say, 10 lines introduces a bulleted list of items. I
want at least some of the paragraph to appear on the same page as the list (or,
at least, the first line of the list). I.e., I don't like the looks of the
layout if a page break falls between the paragraph and the list, especially
when moving from a right-hand page to a left-hand page. Thus, if a soft page
break happens to come immediately after this paragraph, I format the paragraph
using Paragraph > Keep with Next.

Problem: Keep with Next forces the soft page break to come before the
paragraph. But, I don't necessarily want the WHOLE paragraph forced onto the
next page. The last two lines of the paragraph would suffice. The result is a
large block of white space on the page preceding the paragraph.

Is there any way around this, short of hard page breaks? (In this one respect,
WordPerfect actually seems superior to Word.)

Thanks for any advice.

Jay

 

[Bill Foley]

Keep with next applies to the entire paragraph. If you want part of your
paragraph on the next page, make that part a separate paragraph.

 

[HONYAKUKA]

Well, yes, I suppose. But usually a paragraph is a meaningful unit in its own
right, so you don't want to artificially break it up. Something like what I
was asking should be automated. Has the feature been enhanced in versions of
Word after Word2000?

Jay

 

[Charles Kenyon]

But, you are saying you do want to artificially break it up. There is also
the option for Widow-Orphan protection.

 

[HONYAKUKA]

I don't want to artificially break up the paragraph in the sense that I have to
split it into 2 paragraphs or add a hard page break. That defeats the purpose
of an automated word processing program. What I'd like is a feature (or
someone to tell me if it exists already) that, instead of forcing the WHOLE
"introductory" paragraph onto the next page (which is what Keep with Next
does), finds a compromise between (a) keeping at least two lines of the
"introductory" paragraph with the following paragraph or bulleted list and (b)
decent layout without unnecessary white space. (This may be "artificial" in
some sense, but it's automated.)

Widow-orphan protection, either alone or in combination with Keep with Next,
does not solve the problem.

As far as I can tell, Word (Word 2000 at least) doesn't do this. WordPerfect,
which I don't like otherwise, allows you to select, e.g., the last two lines of
one paragraph and the first line of the following bulleted list and force them
to stay together.

Thanks again.

Jay

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

"Keep with next" alone should not cause the entire paragraph to move. A
paragraph will move as a block only if (a) you also have it formatted as
"Keep lines together" or (b) it is only three lines long and you have the
default "Widow/orphan control" enabled.

 

[HONYAKUKA]

Suzanne:

Thanks. But Keep with Next, on my system (Word 2000) at least, the soft page
mark jumps to the beginning of the paragraph when it is formatted with Keep
with Next.

If you don't mind, I'll email you a sample document. (Check for viruses, etc.
It will be fine.) It illustrates what I mean. If you get a different result,
let me know.

Thanks. Jay

 

[Charles Kenyon]

I just tested this in Word 2003 and confirm that is how it works on my
system.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

I've looked at Jay's document, and it does indeed behave as he describes (in
Word 2003). I've done everything I can think of, including several attempts
to remove putative corruption, without success, and have escalated it to my
MVP Lead for inspection.