Keynote Attachments

P

Phil Leahy

I am using Apple's Keynote presentation program on OS 10.3.3. Entourage will
not let me send a Keynote document as an attachment. Keynote file are greyed
Out. Is there any work around for this?

Hopefully this is fixed in 2004?

Thanks



==============================================
Phil Leahy
Associate Network Specialist
BOCES/LHRIC
44 Executive Blvd.
Elmsford, NY 10523
(e-mail address removed)
==============================================
 
D

Dave Cortright

I am using Apple's Keynote presentation program on OS 10.3.3. Entourage will
not let me send a Keynote document as an attachment. Keynote file are greyed
Out. Is there any work around for this?

Keynote "files" are essentially folders. You'll need to enable Stuffit
compression to send them. Drag and drop to attach them should work, though I
don't have keynote so I can't try
 
P

Phil Leahy

Keynote "files" are essentially folders. You'll need to enable Stuffit
compression to send them. Drag and drop to attach them should work, though I
don't have keynote so I can't try


I have Stuffit Standard 8.0 and it is not recognized by Entourage. I am
guessing Entourage does not recognize the .KEY file extension for some
reason.
 
W

Walt Basil

I have Stuffit Standard 8.0 and it is not recognized by Entourage. I am
guessing Entourage does not recognize the .KEY file extension for some
reason.

Stuffit Standard 8 does not really have to be recognized by Entourage.
Just compress it on your own using Stuffit standard, then drag the
resulting compressed file to your Entourage email. I don't know
anything about Keynote, but if David is correct, and they are actually
folders that are given a dot-key extension and Entourage doesn't know
it, then this will be your only way to transmit them (using Entourage).

What version of OS X are you using? If you have Panther, you can right
click on your keynote file and choose "create archive of
<filename>.key," <filename> being whatever your keynote file is named.
It will create a zip archive of your keynote file. No need for Stuffit
then.
--
Walt Basil
www.basilweb.net

Got Unison? The ultimate newsreader IMO for Mac OS X
http://www.panic.com/unison/
 
P

Paul Berkowitz

Stuffit Standard 8 does not really have to be recognized by Entourage.
Just compress it on your own using Stuffit standard, then drag the
resulting compressed file to your Entourage email. I don't know
anything about Keynote, but if David is correct, and they are actually
folders that are given a dot-key extension and Entourage doesn't know
it, then this will be your only way to transmit them (using Entourage).

What version of OS X are you using? If you have Panther, you can right
click on your keynote file and choose "create archive of
<filename>.key," <filename> being whatever your keynote file is named.
It will create a zip archive of your keynote file. No need for Stuffit
then.

The other way to do it (and for people who don't have Stuffit Standard,
Deluxe or DropStuff), would be to drag the attachment into the message, open
the attachment pane, click the long button at the bottom, and click
Compression: Macintosh (Stuffit). That will use the built-in Stuffit Engine
(7.0.3 I think) that comes with Panther, or earlier version with Jaguar. You
don't get the usual alert that you would with a regular folder that _forces_
you to do this, since Entourage is not recognizing the .KEY file extension
as an indicator of a bundle (i.e. folder). But you can do it manually
anyway.

The simplest thing is just to keep a copy of DropStuff (which comes with
Stuffit Standard) in your dock, drag the file to it to stuff, then to the
Entourage message. Or if you have a lot of them, make a single archive first
if you wish in Standard.

Or just zip them, as Walt says. Although I don't think it helps when sending
files to Windows since Panther does not use the same zip format Windows uses
(!), that is highly unlikely to be relevant when sending Keynote files, of
course.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP Entourage
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/toc.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Entourage you are using - 2001 or X.
It's often impossible to answer your questions otherwise.
 
W

Walt Basil

Or just zip them, as Walt says. Although I don't think it helps when sending
files to Windows since Panther does not use the same zip format Windows uses
(!), that is highly unlikely to be relevant when sending Keynote files, of
course.

A friendly FYI for future reference...

It is the same format. I send them all the time that way to Windows
users when I have to send multiiple files, or leave multiple files for
ftp grabbing. Usually, it names it Archive.zip, and they have no
problems at all opening them with various PC zip utilities. I'm not
sure of the actual "version" it zips as though.

I for one was really happy this was implemented in Panther. since I
refuse to update my Stuffit Deluxe. ;-)
--
Walt Basil
www.basilweb.net

Got Unison? The ultimate newsreader IMO for Mac OS X
http://www.panic.com/unison/
 
W

Walt Basil

"Apple uses its own vaguely proprietary way of storing resource forks inside
zip files. StuffIt doesn't yet recognize those forks..."
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20031023155808534

Thanks for the link Dave.

That got me searching macosxhints.com and they have an entire thread
dedicated to this zip capability of Panther, and how it works (or
doesn't, in the case of Stuffit) with other compression utilities.

To anyone that is interested, here is a link to it:
<http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=88029>
There are two pages worth.

Short version for Phil Leahy, since you are most likely sending to
fellow Mac users, be aware that someone unzipping a file made from
Panther's zip utility with a pre-version 8 of stuffit, they will most
likely destroy your Keynote document. With version 8 of Stuffit, they
will open it, but the resource fork will not be there, or if it is
there, it will contain nothing. How this will affect your Keynote
document I don't know.

Maybe someone else can explain why a resource fork is so important. I
have never really understood. I have deleted that fork from several
files (and file types) and have never noticed anything different about
the document once I open it again. It seems kind of redundant to me.
When someone sends me a PC Office document, it opens and displays just
fine without that resource fork. When I give it back to them, it hasn't
changed at all on my end as far as what I saw when I first opened it.
But now my Word has added a resource fork.
--
Walt Basil
www.basilweb.net

Got Unison? The ultimate news-reader IMO for Mac OS X
http://www.panic.com/unison/
 
D

Dave Cortright

I guess the point is they shouldn't have to be compressed. But thanks for
the workaround.

I don't think that is the point. Keynote files are "packages" which is just
a special type of folder in Mac OS. That means they contain a hierarchy of
other files and possibly other nested folders. There's no standard way to
encode/represent a folder hierarchy so it will send successfully over
e-mail. I don't know of any other mail app that could take a folder and send
it without compressing it to a single file first. If you find an example,
I'd be very interested to know about it.
 
P

Phil Leahy

I don't think that is the point. Keynote files are "packages" which is just
a special type of folder in Mac OS. That means they contain a hierarchy of
other files and possibly other nested folders. There's no standard way to
encode/represent a folder hierarchy so it will send successfully over
e-mail. I don't know of any other mail app that could take a folder and send
it without compressing it to a single file first. If you find an example,
I'd be very interested to know about it.


Actually... Apple's Built in Mail program (v1.37) - Panther provides this
functionality without user intervention. The document is attached without
using a compression scheme, known to the user. It appears as a normal
document in the file choice dialog. We use the Entourage in rare instances
for the calendar function/ or with semi-compliance with MS Exchange. I still
think .key is just another file type that should be recognized.



(e-mail address removed)
 
W

Walt Basil

Actually... Apple's Built in Mail program (v1.37) - Panther provides this
functionality without user intervention. The document is attached without
using a compression scheme, known to the user. It appears as a normal
document in the file choice dialog. We use the Entourage in rare instances
for the calendar function/ or with semi-compliance with MS Exchange. I still
think .key is just another file type that should be recognized.



(e-mail address removed)

It sure does Phil. I just tried it with many of the applications of OS
X that are really "packages" such as iCal, Address Book, etc. When you
try to send something like that with Entourage they are just grayed
out, but with Mail you are able to attach them to an email. Mozilla
variants are also able to select these applications.

With a little experimentation, here is what I found. Mail actually zips
the file before sending it. I tried sending these programs. I sent one
from Mail and received it with Entourage, and then I sent one with Mail
and received it with Mail.

When Mail received it, It must have done everything behind the scene
because I didn't notice anything happening. It sent the application,
and when it received the application it was "MacJanitor.app." When I
drug it to the desktop, it became just "MacJanitor" without any
intervention on my part.

When Entourage received it, the name of the file was
"MacJanitor.app.zip." When I drug it to the desktop, it stayed in it's
zipped state of course. I did a Get Info on the resulting zip file, and
for the "open with" field it says "BOMArchivhelper." This is the
Panther zip utility.

I double clicked the zip file, and no application opened that I could
tell, at least by observing the dock, but it did unzip to the original
file. Trashed and emptied the unzipped file.

Next, I right clicked on the zipped file and chose "open with" Stuffit
Deluxe (version 7.03). MacJanitor appeared on the desktop when I drug
it from the Stuffit Deluxe window to the desktop. I double clicked
MacJanitor and it opened right up without any problems and ran as it
should. Trashed and emptied the unzipped file.

Finally, I right clicked and chose "open with" Stuffit Expander
(version 7.03). MacJanitor appeared on the desktop again, fully
functional.

I think with this information, we can assume that Apple has refined
Panther's zip capability since the original links from MacOSXhints.com
were authored. If you look at the dates of those links, they are from
the early days of Panther, October through December 2003. The link Dave
provided being October 28, 2003.

With this in mind Phil, using Panther 10.3.3, you can compress your
Keynote files using Panther's zip without fear that your documents will
become unreadable by Mac users. I know this is just a workaround, and
not a solution. Maybe this will be addressed in future versions of
Entourage.

In my opinion, you could argue all day long about the fact that these
files are really some type of folder. We are on an Apple platform. MS
writes software for this platform. If Apple says that their Keynote
documents will be in some folder format (as they have for their
applications) then that's the bottom line. They will be folder format.
If MS wants to maintain the ability to send Keynote files easily, they
will have to change the way their program looks at files.

My suggestion to Phil is this: If you would rather not manually
compress your files before sending them, then use Mail or some Mozilla
varient to send your keynote files. In the meantime, you could give MS
feedback about it.

Testing configuration:
iBook 700MHz, 640 MB RAM
OS X 10.3.3
Mail 1.3.7 (v615/613)
Entourage 10.1.4 (030702)
2 separate POP email accounts, one for sending, one for receiving.
ISP: RoadRunner Cable
--
Walt Basil
www.basilweb.net

Got Unison? The ultimate newsreader IMO for Mac OS X
http://www.panic.com/unison/
 
D

Dave Cortright

Actually... Apple's Built in Mail program (v1.37) - Panther provides this
functionality without user intervention. The document is attached without
using a compression scheme, known to the user. It appears as a normal
document in the file choice dialog. We use the Entourage in rare instances
for the calendar function/ or with semi-compliance with MS Exchange. I still
think .key is just another file type that should be recognized.

I just tried it myself and what Mail is doing is converting the file to a
..zip archive. So in fact it is using a compression scheme, though you got
the part about "not known to the user" right.

I agree with you that attaching packages to Entourage messages should be
more seamless, and I would hope Entourage 2004 makes this easier. You should
check it out.

From the source of the Mail message I created:
--Apple-Mail-2--291364367
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Type: application/zip;
name="Family.key.zip"
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename=Family.key.zip
 
P

Phil Leahy

========
---->>


Walt,

Thanks for the in-depth testing on this matter, hopefully Microsoft will
"hear" our/your results. The 2004 edition will need testing. But I
hope the .zip built-in function to the OS will be "smoother" with the
2004 Entourage "CREW".


n 4/29/04 10:28 AM, in article 2004042908281616807%firstname@lastnamewebnet,
 

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