long scientific document

[Qreg]

Hello,

I'm now writing my Master of Science Thesis and till now I used Master and
Subdocuments for it (all chapters in separate subdocuments). Today I've
come accross several articles that I must say frightened me, saying that
there are major problems with Master documents (on word.MVPS.Org site).

So if there are such problems with them what should I do now? How to write
a long scientific document with loads of equations, figures, bibliography
cross-references. If I keep it all in one document and it becomes larger
than 30 pages (with many equations) work with it becomes very unpleasent

What are other methods of handling large scientific documents without the
problem considering corrupted master documents?

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

What version of Word?

Here's a link to one expert's suggestions on safely using Master Documents:
Steve Hudson [Word Heretic] on how to make Master Documents work safely:
http://www.techwr-l.com/techwhirl/magazine/technical/wordhomepage.html

However, and I don't know enough about Windows to be sure, a document
becoming unpleasantly slow after 30 pages, even with figures and equations,
suggests there might be something else going on with your setup.

 

[Qreg]

Dnia Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:12:23 -0700, Daiya Mitchell napisa³(a):

What version of Word?

Here's a link to one expert's suggestions on safely using Master Documents:
Steve Hudson [Word Heretic] on how to make Master Documents work safely:
http://www.techwr-l.com/techwhirl/magazine/technical/wordhomepage.html

However, and I don't know enough about Windows to be sure, a document
becoming unpleasantly slow after 30 pages, even with figures and equations,
suggests there might be something else going on with your setup.

Hello,

I'm now writing my Master of Science Thesis and till now I used Master and
Subdocuments for it (all chapters in separate subdocuments). Today I've
come accross several articles that I must say frightened me, saying that
there are major problems with Master documents (on word.MVPS.Org site).

So if there are such problems with them what should I do now? How to write
a long scientific document with loads of equations, figures, bibliography
cross-references. If I keep it all in one document and it becomes larger
than 30 pages (with many equations) work with it becomes very unpleasent

What are other methods of handling large scientific documents without the
problem considering corrupted master documents?

Thank You for that link, I've already read it before posting It was one
of the reasons why I decided to ask profesionals about that matter, and how
to avoid future problem (as now I still have some time to change few things
in my project).

Maybe that number of 30 pages is a little to low but believe me when the
number of equations is getting larger the more problems occur
(unfortunatelly I cannot convert them to images at that point because first
it has to be checked by my Profesor, who has to have possibility of editing
them if it is neccesary).

So for now I'll stick to Steve Hudson's tips on how to work with master
documents, but I'm still looking for another solutions to the problem (that
is different from using LaTeX )

Thanks again for Your answer

 

[Robert M. Franz]

Hi Qreg

Maybe that number of 30 pages is a little to low but believe me when the
number of equations is getting larger the more problems occur
(unfortunatelly I cannot convert them to images at that point because first
it has to be checked by my Profesor, who has to have possibility of editing
them if it is neccesary).

MathType (an extension to Word's built-in Equation Editor) might be of
some help to you. Since we use that at my Uni, problems with Equations
have dropped considerably.

I recall a rather short document in Word 97 (you seem to be rather
reluctant to name the version _you_ are using ...) where I could almost
feel the difference after each insertion of a new EqEdit-Object. I had
to recreate way too many of those objects time and again (and after
editing like 5, I had to save, close and reopen the document anyway if I
wanted to edit another one ...).

I don't want to advocate LaTeX since I've never sensibly used it myself,
but for documents with a lot of equations, I'd seriously consider it.
When you use a standard LaTeX package, you lose a lot of flexibility
(unless you _really_ go deep into the specs) for the price of a decent
layout.

2cents
Robert

 

[Jonathan West]

Hello,

I'm now writing my Master of Science Thesis and till now I used Master and
Subdocuments for it (all chapters in separate subdocuments). Today I've
come accross several articles that I must say frightened me, saying that
there are major problems with Master documents (on word.MVPS.Org site).

So if there are such problems with them what should I do now? How to write
a long scientific document with loads of equations, figures, bibliography
cross-references. If I keep it all in one document and it becomes larger
than 30 pages (with many equations) work with it becomes very unpleasent

What are other methods of handling large scientific documents without the
problem considering corrupted master documents?

Hi Wojtek

These two articles may help


How to recover a Master Document
http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/General/RecoverMasterDocs.htm

Creating a Table of Contents Spanning Multiple Documents
http://pubs.logicalexpressions.com/Pub0009/LPMArticle.asp?ID=148


--
Regards
Jonathan West - Word MVP
www.intelligentdocuments.co.uk
Please reply to the newsgroup
Keep your VBA code safe, sign the ClassicVB petition www.classicvb.org

 

[Qreg]

MathType (an extension to Word's built-in Equation Editor) might be of
some help to you. Since we use that at my Uni, problems with Equations
have dropped considerably.

I'm now started the trial period for MathType 5.2 and if it helps then I'll
upgrade.

I recall a rather short document in Word 97 (you seem to be rather
reluctant to name the version _you_ are using ...)

Sorry for that, I use word 2003.

to recreate way too many of those objects time and again (and after
editing like 5, I had to save, close and reopen the document anyway if I
wanted to edit another one ...).

Well in my case it is not so drastic, but word slows noticeably (even with
768 MB of Ram onboard).

I don't want to advocate LaTeX since I've never sensibly used it myself,
but for documents with a lot of equations, I'd seriously consider it.

I wanted to write it in LaTeX, but the problem there is that not everybody
can edit LaTeX documents (more knowledge is needed) and the main issue is
that my Profesor uses don't know it.

When you use a standard LaTeX package, you lose a lot of flexibility
(unless you _really_ go deep into the specs) for the price of a decent
layout.

Yeah, You can always tell when a document was writen with LaTeX from its
looks But I think that Word offers decent trade-off between the ease of
use and the quality of documents.

So for now I'll evaluate MathType and stick to Word Heretic's advices on
working with Master Documents, and in the mean time still look for better
solutions.

 

[Bob Mathews]

Yeah, You can always tell when a document was writen with
LaTeX from its looks But I think that Word offers decent
trade-off between the ease of use and the quality of
documents.

If you want your Word document to have a LaTeX look, use Euclid
font for your text, and in MathType set your styles (Style >
Define) to use Euclid font as your Primary font, and use Euclid
Symbol and Euclid Extra as your Greek and Extra Math fonts. (The
Euclid fonts are part of the MathType installation.)
--
Bob Mathews (e-mail address removed)
Director of Training 830-990-9699
http://www.dessci.com/free.asp?free=news
FREE fully-functional 30-day evaluation of MathType 5
Design Science, Inc. -- "How Science Communicates"
MathType, WebEQ, MathPlayer, MathFlow, Equation Editor, TeXaide

 

[Robert M. Franz]

Hi Wojtek

I wanted to write it in LaTeX, but the problem there is that not everybody
can edit LaTeX documents (more knowledge is needed) and the main issue is
that my Profesor uses don't know it.

I see what you mean. Just make sure that your professor knows how to use
Word. Make sure he doesn't use AutoFormatAsYouType options that you
don't like beeing used on that file.

Yeah, You can always tell when a document was writen with LaTeX from its
looks

Unless someone was handling LaTeX badly: I've seen _such_ documents, too!

But I think that Word offers decent trade-off between the ease of
use and the quality of documents.

Yes it does, for some types of documents in any case. Just don't expect
every user who "knows Word beceause he's written a letter before" to be
able to handle your document. At least not if you value your document!

So for now I'll evaluate MathType and stick to Word Heretic's advices on
working with Master Documents, and in the mean time still look for better
solutions.

Then make sure your professor does edit the Subdocuments only. Don't
give them access to the master!

Greetinx
Robert

 

[Qreg]

I see what you mean. Just make sure that your professor knows how to use
Word. Make sure he doesn't use AutoFormatAsYouType options that you
don't like beeing used on that file.

Some thing are beyond our power to influance.

Yes it does, for some types of documents in any case. Just don't expect
every user who "knows Word beceause he's written a letter before" to be
able to handle your document. At least not if you value your document!

Well in my opinion most people doesnt really need word, wordpad would do
just right for them But try explaining this to anyone

Then make sure your professor does edit the Subdocuments only. Don't
give them access to the master!

Well I'm planning for Him to see the master only once When printed ;-)

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

I'm now started the trial period for MathType 5.2 and if it helps then I'll
upgrade.

If you create your equations in MathType, your professor will also need
MathType or MathType Lite to edit the equations. MathType Lite is what you
get after you let the demo program expire, so free.

 

[Qreg]

If you create your equations in MathType, your professor will also need
MathType or MathType Lite to edit the equations. MathType Lite is what you
get after you let the demo program expire, so free.

Thank You for bringing this problem up.

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Thank You for bringing this problem up.

But I should also have said that the Design Science people, who make all
these programs, still consider MT Lite to be a better and more stable
program than Equation Editor. MT and MT Lite also create cross-platform
win/Mac equations while Equation Editor does not.

DMs