Looking for feedback on what I think I've learned...

R

Randy Morgan

I like FP and want to keep using it, but my host is killing me. At
least, I *think* it's my host and not any fundamental limitation of a
Windows hosting platform vs. a Linux (or any "nix", I suppose, but I'll
just call it Linux for simplicity) hosting platform. So, I'm hoping to
tap the wisdom of the various Very Learned And Powerful People that
offer such sage advice in this newsgroup to validate what I think I've
learned in researching the matter.

I believe the following statements to be true, and would be grateful for
any comments either agreeing or disagreeing with them, or flat-out
explaining why I'm wrong.

1. You can build a good-looking, professional, data-driven, interactive
website on either platform.

2. You can have a secure and stable website on either platform. It's
the competency and interest of you and your host, not the fundamental
nature of the hosting platform, that matters.

3. You have to make a fundamental decision as to the hosting platform:
Windows or Linux.

4. If you want to use an Access database, you must go with a Windows
platform.

5. You should be deeply skeptical of the myriad websites that offer host
reviews and assessments. Some are genuinely unbiased reviews, others
are no more than shills for certain hosts (and possibly even owned or
operated by them), and, practically speaking, there's no way to tell the
difference.

6. FP can interact with either hosting platform just fine, thank you.

7. If you choose to go with technologies like CSS, PHP, or MySQL, FP
allows you to configure editors (e.g., PSPad, TopStyle) for those
technologies that are perhaps a little more helpful than FP or Notepad
as editors. With that said, there's nothing you absolutely cannot do
with FP.

8. You can register a domain name with one outfit and host it with
another, so if you host you like charges $20 to register a domain name
and somebody else charges $5, you may as well register with the $5
outfit even though you're not going to use them as a host.

9. Assuming ethical conduct on the part of your current host and
registrar, moving to a new host is not *that* big of a deal, but you're
going to have a period of up to 48 hours while DNS changes are
propagated in which you can't know which host is actually serving your
pages. If you allow visitors to make additions to a database (by, for
example, submitting a contact form), you may have some work to sync up
the databases after the DNS changes are complete.

10. If you want to develop ASP pages and use a Linux host, that host
must support something like Chilisoft, but even then you still can't
have an Access database.

11. It is possible on a Windows platform to have full support and
functionality (defined as whatever support and functionality you get on
a Linux host) for PHP and MySQL.

12. FP extensions are available for both Windows and Linux and work
equally well on both if the host manages them properly.

13. There's no such thing as a Windows host with both IIS and Apache.
It's one or the other (and probably will be IIS).

14. If you use FP and want to use PHP/MySQL you'll have to know more
about the underlying technology than you will if you use ASP/Access, as
FP can't manage PHP/MySQL for you anything like as well it can ASP/Access.

15. There's no reason a host can't give you access to the raw logs for
your site, even if you have a shared hosting account.

16. <potentiallyinflammatoryremark> The open-source (i.e., free code)
community offers more choices in PHP than ASP. You can certainly find
free ASP code, but the choices *tend* to be a subset of what's available
in PHP. </potentiallyinflammatoryremark>.

17. If you want a host the supports "everything", you're either not
going to find one or you're going to pay astronomical prices or you're
going to have to build and host it yourself.

18. When it comes to choosing a host, you do all the research you want,
but at the end of the day you won't know how you like them, or if they
misrepresented themselves to you, until you try them. "You pays your
money and you takes your chances."

OK, that should be enough to either bore or offend just about anybody.
Thanks to those of you that read this far!
 
M

Murray

See below -

--
Murray
============

Randy Morgan said:
I like FP and want to keep using it, but my host is killing me. At least,
I *think* it's my host and not any fundamental limitation of a Windows
hosting platform vs. a Linux (or any "nix", I suppose, but I'll just call
it Linux for simplicity) hosting platform. So, I'm hoping to tap the
wisdom of the various Very Learned And Powerful People that offer such sage
advice in this newsgroup to validate what I think I've learned in
researching the matter.

I believe the following statements to be true, and would be grateful for
any comments either agreeing or disagreeing with them, or flat-out
explaining why I'm wrong.

1. You can build a good-looking, professional, data-driven, interactive
website on either platform.
Certainly.


2. You can have a secure and stable website on either platform. It's the
competency and interest of you and your host, not the fundamental nature
of the hosting platform, that matters.
Certainly.


3. You have to make a fundamental decision as to the hosting platform:
Windows or Linux.

The hosting environment would determine which server technologies would be
available to you, e.g.,
PHP v. ASP, Access v. MySQL, IIS v. Apache, etc.
4. If you want to use an Access database, you must go with a Windows
platform.
Yes.


5. You should be deeply skeptical of the myriad websites that offer host
reviews and assessments. Some are genuinely unbiased reviews, others are
no more than shills for certain hosts (and possibly even owned or operated
by them), and, practically speaking, there's no way to tell the
difference.

This is always a prudent approach. The best source is peer recommendation,
I believe.
6. FP can interact with either hosting platform just fine, thank you.
Yes.


7. If you choose to go with technologies like CSS, PHP, or MySQL, FP
allows you to configure editors (e.g., PSPad, TopStyle) for those
technologies that are perhaps a little more helpful than FP or Notepad as
editors. With that said, there's nothing you absolutely cannot do with
FP.

Hmm - that's a bit broad. But generally speaking (although I can't speak to
the PHP/MySQL part) it's correct. With regard to CSS, there's no reason why
you cannot use TopStyle (for example) in conjunction with FP.
8. You can register a domain name with one outfit and host it with
another, so if you host you like charges $20 to register a domain name and
somebody else charges $5, you may as well register with the $5 outfit even
though you're not going to use them as a host.
Certainly.


9. Assuming ethical conduct on the part of your current host and
registrar, moving to a new host is not *that* big of a deal, but you're
going to have a period of up to 48 hours while DNS changes are propagated
in which you can't know which host is actually serving your pages. If you
allow visitors to make additions to a database (by, for example,
submitting a contact form), you may have some work to sync up the
databases after the DNS changes are complete.

Yes. I just disable that functionality while the changes propagate, and put
up a polite "Sorry" message.
10. If you want to develop ASP pages and use a Linux host, that host must
support something like Chilisoft, but even then you still can't have an
Access database.

I believe that's correct. I also believe that Chilisoft is a poor mirror of
ASP (and since it has been bought by Sun, I think it might even get poorer,
but have no first-hand experience with it). I believe that you cannot use
an Access database on *nix at all.
11. It is possible on a Windows platform to have full support and
functionality (defined as whatever support and functionality you get on a
Linux host) for PHP and MySQL.

I honestly don't know.
12. FP extensions are available for both Windows and Linux and work
equally well on both if the host manages them properly.

Yes. That seems to be the case.
13. There's no such thing as a Windows host with both IIS and Apache. It's
one or the other (and probably will be IIS).

You can install Apache on a Windows box - but I don't know about using it as
a webserver on a host server.
14. If you use FP and want to use PHP/MySQL you'll have to know more about
the underlying technology than you will if you use ASP/Access, as FP can't
manage PHP/MySQL for you anything like as well it can ASP/Access.

Yes, I believe that's correct.
15. There's no reason a host can't give you access to the raw logs for
your site, even if you have a shared hosting account.

That's correct.
16. <potentiallyinflammatoryremark> The open-source (i.e., free code)
community offers more choices in PHP than ASP. You can certainly find free
ASP code, but the choices *tend* to be a subset of what's available in
PHP. </potentiallyinflammatoryremark>.

Yes, most likely true. You can also find more 'scruff', too.
17. If you want a host the supports "everything", you're either not going
to find one or you're going to pay astronomical prices or you're going to
have to build and host it yourself.

No, I don't think that's correct. Most hosts now offer hosting on either
Windows or *nix. Many will switch you between them (well, not on a weekly
basis).
18. When it comes to choosing a host, you do all the research you want,
but at the end of the day you won't know how you like them, or if they
misrepresented themselves to you, until you try them. "You pays your
money and you takes your chances."

I think that's always the case.
 
J

JIMCO Software

Randy said:
13. There's no such thing as a Windows host with both IIS and Apache.
It's one or the other (and probably will be IIS).

You can get Apache for Windows.

You left off the best reason for choosing a Windows host; ASP.NET support.
:)

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO Software
http://www.jimcosoftware.com

FrontPage add-ins for FrontPage 2000 - 2003
 
R

Randy Morgan

I'm sure that's true, but ASP.NET is way over my head right now. :)
It's all I can do to keep up with the simple stuff. From Murray's
feedback it seems that I'm mostly correct in my assumptions. And, I
wrote one of my statements poorly. By "having it all" I really meant
"having it all at the same time".

Randy
 
C

Cheryl D Wise

C

Cheryl D Wise

Inline:

Murray said:
I honestly don't know.

Yes, but not everyone who offers PHP & MySQL on IIS install all the
libraries on it that they typically install on Linux. Most notably the GD
libraries for resizing images.
Yes. That seems to be the case.
Agreed


You can install Apache on a Windows box - but I don't know about using it
as a webserver on a host server.

You and some people do in the name of 'security' but it is rare since IIS
tends to work much better than Apache on Windows. I know some who install
both on the local testing machines and run one or the other on port 8080.


--
Cheryl D. Wise
MS FrontPage MVP
http://mvp.wiserways.com
http://starttoweb.com
Online instructor led web design training in FrontPage,
Dreamweaver and more!
 
M

Murray

You and some people do in the name of 'security' but it is rare since IIS
tends to work much better than Apache on Windows. I know some who install
both on the local testing machines and run one or the other on port 8080.

Well, I don't really use Apache, although I have installed it on a machine I
later shot with a 12 guage shotgun. When I get around to learning PHP, I
suppose I'll have to try again.
 
J

JIMCO Software

Cheryl said:
While more limited than ASP.NET on Windows servers you can indeed run
ASP.NET on Linux machines, Mac OS X (10.2 and later) or FreeBSD.

Mac OS X 10.2.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...FA-7462-47D0-8E56-8DD34C6292F0&displaylang=en



Linux - Mono Project http://www.mono-project.com/about/index.html

The CLI (first link) does not support ASP.NET development and is not meant
for running deployed code anyway. It's a learning tool and nothing more.

Mono is an interesting project and is a testament to the power of the Common
Language Runtime architecture, but its implementation of ASP.NET is beyond
crippled.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO Software
http://www.jimcosoftware.com

FrontPage add-ins for FrontPage 2000 - 2003
 

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