Lost Emails

[TomWoz]

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: intel

Time Machine does not back up the Entourage main entity or database every hour. Microsoft does not update the "last modified" date when new emails are added, moved, deleted. It only updates it under very particular instances. So, in effect, you do not have a backup of your email messages on Time Machine, even if you do not exclude the main entity or database. I just lost almost one full month of data - the largest loss of data for me ever, because of this. Since May 3, 2008, Time Machine has backed up the Entourage database about 3 times, the last one was in May. So when the power went out for 10 seconds, it appears that the entire end of the database was lost. No rebuild or restore can recover it - spent hours with Apple and Microsoft. Apple clearly understands the Entourage Emails are not backed up - this needs to be clearly defined to everyone. I am moving to Apple Mail, where every message is backed up and I can recover them via Time Machine. I paid a dear price for this error in Entourage. Does anyone know anyway to recover this lost data - it was about 400 emails in various folders plus all the updates to the address book. This is just a terrible omission on both Apple and Microsoft's part. They should at least let you know that you can lose everything and they should fix it. Apple Mail indexes every email and so time machine backs it up.

 

[Diane Ross]

I make daily backups and each one has a new modified date. I'm not sure what
has happened in your case. Has anyone else seen this?

I agree there should be more info about what to add and/or exclude from Time
Machine. It is not recommended to backup to Time Machine unless the
Entourage database is closed and the Microsoft Database daemon is also
closed. It could result in a corrupted database. Since Time Machine does
this hourly it's impossible to do this. I have a tutorial that allows for
Time Machine to backup once daily at night or you can use an Automator
action to create daily backups in a dated folder. These are automated by
iCal. Can be used by Tiger and Leopard users.

Entourage and Time-Machine-like backup (creates chronological backup of
Identity can be used by both Tiger and Leopard)

<http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2008/01/entourage_and_time_machine.html>

Alternative method to use Entourage and Time Machine (does a once a day or
whatever time period you select)

<http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2008/01/alternative_method_to_use_entourage_
and_time_machine.html>

 

[TomWoz]

Hi Diane,

I have sent and received over 50 emails in the last 24 hours and I just looked in finder and the date on my "database" in the Main Entity is still May 30th, 2008. I no backups have been taken by time machine. It is true that I keep Entourage Open at all times - have always done that. I even tried changing some preferences and the modified data does not change. The date on Mailing Lists, Rules, and Signatures (the other files in the Main Identity have today's date and so they get updated, but the actual Database does not. I am just going to Apple Mail. I have tested it out and backup and restore works perfectly. I cannot survive another loss of 400 emails and one months updates to my address book and I don't have the time to fool around with manual stuff when it is done automatically in Mail. I am just upset that this was not made clear to us when we installed time machine and time capsule. My system is just two months old now - I bought top of the line IMAC and 1T time capsule and was smug with the thought that I was completely protected. I even had copies of my IPHONE DVD backups sent off site from my house in case of fire. Never did I imagine that I simple power outage could destroy so much important data. I stayed up all last night trying to recover some stuff and have people sending me copies of all the emails I sent or they sent in june back to me. When I have this fixed, I am moving it to Mail. Then I will sync it with my old IMAC G5 and .mac and never worry again. Until then, I will shut Entourage down unless I am using it. Thanks for you reply - TomWoz

 

[Diane Ross]

I'm not trying to change your mind....I'm just curious as to why your
database does not show a modified date. Could you do this if you can find
the time?

Create a new User in System Preferences. Open Entourage and drag in an MBOX
of files. Check the date before and after.

 

[TomWoz]

Hi Diane,

I will try it - but have a big neighborhood event today - over 400 kids and people for a parade and picnic. I am president of the homeowners association and also do the newsletter for the Michigan cons Gas Co. retirees. Thats why I process so much email. Also in the previous message, I meant IPHOTO not IPHONE = the backups of IPHOTO which are quite large. While I bought my boys and daughter-in-law IPHONES for Christmas, my wife and I are the only people in Michigan without cell phones. I could not imagine someone being able to get a hold of me anywhere, anytime. Once I was also fired because I refused to carry a beeper at work. Ha ha. Tom

 

[TomWoz]

Once again I made a mistake = Once I was ALMOST FIRED - I never really was fired - I said I would carry a beeper if they gave me a letter stating that I would be fired if I did not carry one - Michcon backed down and never gave me the letter. However I still got woke up in the middle of the night many times with problems that needed to be fixed via my home phone. I worked in DP and vendor checks had to be printed by morning.

Tom

 

[Ed Kimball]

I'm not trying to change your mind....I'm just curious as to why your
database does not show a modified date. Could you do this if you can find
the time?

Create a new User in System Preferences. Open Entourage and drag in an MBOX
of files. Check the date before and after.

I'm curious too. I just looked at my Entourage DB and it was last modified
two minutes ago.

 

[Diane Ross]

my wife and I are the only people in Michigan without cell phones.

I don't have a cell phone either.

 

[Barry Wainwright]

I make daily backups and each one has a new modified date. I'm not sure what
has happened in your case. Has anyone else seen this?

I have seen this effect in the past - but only on an older version of
entourage (2004, maybe even vX). It once caused me to beleive I was
throwing away an old, unused database! In 2008, the database is always
time-stamped with the current date - never more than a few minutes old!!

 

[Ed Kimball]

I have seen this effect in the past - but only on an older version of
entourage (2004, maybe even vX). It once caused me to beleive I was
throwing away an old, unused database! In 2008, the database is always
time-stamped with the current date - never more than a few minutes old!!

I've never seen this effect (not that I check the last modified time on my
Entourage DB that often!). Interestingly enough, the last modified time
right now on that DB is a few minutes ago, but the last accessed time is
last night's shutdown! Entourage 2004 appears to affect the system's file
modification and access stamps non-intuitively.

 

[TomWoz]

Hello All,

I have moved everything to Apple Mail and it works well with Time Machine. I have Office 2004 on my old IMAC and I shut down Entourage Mail in early May on that computer. The last modified date on the database in the Main Identity is sometime in October of 2007. The last modified date on the new IMAC with Office 2008 is May 30, 2008, even though hundreds of emails and dozens of address book entries were updated. I have noticed the the metadata for the Office data in Cache is updated - but that is not the actual data - just a description of the data and its location. The Main Identity is located in Microsoft User Data. Here is what is says in Finder:

Office 2008 Identities - date modified June 23
Main Identity = date modified June 23
Database - date modified May 30th
Mailing Lists - date modified June 23
Rules - date modified June 23
Signatures - date modified June 23

June 23rd is the last day I used Entourage and switched to Mail. As I said before, the Database is almost 1GB, the other files are much smaller. I am just giving up on this - not that important when Mail does the job and has some other nice features. I am lazy by nature. I will continue to use WORD, EXCEL, POWERPOINT. But Mail works seamlessly with Time Machine and I have already made the transition. Thanks for everyone's comments and suggestions.

P.S. to Barry - if you thing that the database is always time stamped (is that different from the date modified). Because the date modified on the database has not changed in over 1 month.

Tom Wozniak