Masterdocument does not save format changes

[ACTG]

Version: 2008 Operating System: Mac OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) Processor: Intel To whom it may concern:

I am using Word's masterdocument feature to work on a large book project, consisting of 17 different chapters. Suddenly my formatting changes (line pitches, page breaks etc.) are not saved any longer: the next time I open the document, everything is back to where it was before. Text, however, can be changed and will keep that way. What is wrong and how can I solve the problem? Needless to say, all subdocuments etc. are unlocked and fully accessible.

Many thanks in advance,

Alexander

 

[CyberTaz]

For now I'll just refer you to this article & its associated links... I'm
sure the author, himself, will be along shortly once the sun again rises
Down Under

http://word.mvps.org/faqs/general/WhyMasterDocsCorrupt.htm

 

[ACTG]

Thank you, Bob, much appreciated! As a matter of fact, I was actually hoping that John would get back to me since he helped me perfectly on an earlier occasion... Will study this now and see whether I can fix the problem.

Best,

Alexander

 

[John_McGhie_[MVP]]

Hi Alexander:

I'm hereeeeee....

1) Master Documents are OK in .docx format. I need to update that article.

2) However, they "are" a little fragile: things like Tracked Changes can be
the kiss of death

3) You should never attempt to create valuable work in .doc format: it's
not strong enough to withstand the demands placed on it by the Master
Documents feature: if the Master, or any of the subdocuments, are in .doc
format, you're just waiting for the accident to happen.

4) Your current problem is probably caused by the way you have attached the
template.

To work successfully with a master document, ALL of the files in the Master
Document MUST be attached to the SAME instance of the SAME template, and
NONE of them must have the "Automatically update styles on open" switched
on.

So: Open each Subdocument individually OUTSIDE the Master Document and
check how its template is attached using Tools>Templates and
Add-Ins>Attach...

The Master Document itself MUST remain closed while you check each file.
You should never open a subdocument directly while its master document is
open.

You must also format only with styles, and you must observe normal
commercial care and attention when setting up the styles.

Check that none of the styles are set to "Automatically update".

Check to see what style each of the styles you are using is "Based On". If
they are all based on Normal style, and change to Normal style will affect
the whole document.

I would avoid using Normal style for "anything". Word uses that
automatically in many places, particularly in tables. So it is best to
leave its formatting all set to zero and let Word do what it wants with
Normal style.

Also: Check which "View" you are working in. If you go into "Draft View"
or "Outline View" by mistake, you won't be able to SEE the formatting even
if it is there.

Check those things and get back to me.

Cheers

Thank you, Bob, much appreciated! As a matter of fact, I was actually hoping
that John would get back to me since he helped me perfectly on an earlier
occasion... Will study this now and see whether I can fix the problem.

Best,

Alexander

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410 | mailto:[email protected]

 

[ACTG]

Hurra, that's good news and already a relief, even if I have not yet started tackling the problem. Again, thanks so much! Will take a day or two to respond and try all this out but I shall certainly get back to you as soon as I can and then report what the outcome was. Once again, your guess was exactly right: some of the subdocuments had the track changes feature still on when I created the masterdocument (as I only noticed afterward and, possibly, too late).

Very best,

a.

 

[John_McGhie_[MVP]]

Hi Alexander:

{Sinking feeling} Tracked Changes will often kill a subdocument stone dead.

Resolve the changes and turn change tracking OFF, and try it. If it works
OK, you got away with it...

If not, you will need to Maggie each subdocument that is playing up...

The Maggie:

1. Create a new blank document
2. Carefully select all of the text in the bad document EXCEPT the last
paragraph mark
3. Copy it.
4. Paste in the new document.
5. Save under a new file name and close all, then re-open.

This technique for de-corrupting is known as "Doing a 'Maggie'", after
Margaret Secara from the TECHWR-L mailing list, who first publicised the
technique.

To Maggie a subdocument, DELETE the subdocument from the Master and close
the Master, then open just the subdocument and Maggie it, then re-open the
master and re-insert the sub.

Cheers

Hurra, that's good news and already a relief, even if I have not yet started
tackling the problem. Again, thanks so much! Will take a day or two to respond
and try all this out but I shall certainly get back to you as soon as I can
and then report what the outcome was. Once again, your guess was exactly
right: some of the subdocuments had the track changes feature still on when I
created the masterdocument (as I only noticed afterward and, possibly, too
late).

Very best,

a.

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410 | mailto:[email protected]

 

[ACTG]

Dear John,

Again, thanks so much! Will do later today. Two more things might be of importance:

1. 15 of the 17 subdocuments come from 15 different authors. Some of them have enormous numbers of templates/styles installed that are now available in the masterdocument and might cause trouble. I tried to remove them individually/collectively in both the masterdocument and/or the subdocuments (format/style/organizer) but Word either crashes or does not save the changes, i.e. next time I open the document all the deleted styles are still there.

2. For a number of weeks Word has been very unstable anyway, although I have installed all latest updates and patches. For instance, whenever I try to close the program as such, it will not let me do so correctly. It re-opens automatically after a while and can only be quit at the second attempt. Maybe that plays a role as well?

THANK YOU!!!!

Alexander

 

[John_McGhie_[MVP]]

Hi Alexander:

OK, read the stuff I wrote about Master Documents on the website very
carefully

A Word Document is an extremely complex structure. Including it in a Master
Document multiplies the complexity by the power of the number of
subdocuments you have. In other words, the complexity going on in there is
"frightening".

For that reason, Master Documents are a really bad choice if you have
multiple authors who cannot be disciplined to format correctly using ONLY
the approved styles drawn from the approved template.

One of the secrets is that the styles used in the master document and the
styles used in the subdocuments must match exactly.

If they don't, Word will attempt to switch the style sheet in use from one
to the other: using the style sheet in the master document when the document
is opened as a master document, and using the one embedded in the
subdocument when the subdocument is opened on its own. If the document is
anything but perfect internally, this will rapidly tip it over the edge

I could give you all the information to fix this if you want to persist, but
it is a LOT of work, and it will likely break whenever any of your 15
authors gets hold of one of those documents.

Better, I think, to back out of Master Documents as soon as you have
non-professional authors involved

You can fall back to RD fields and manual printing right now. That enables
you to continue to allow the authors to work on their individual sections,
which being able to generate a table of contents and index for the complete
document. You need to se the starting page number manually at the beginning
of each file.

Once you get your head around RD fields, they're easy enough to do, and they
do not require all the special "considerations" for their use that Master
Documents do. They are stable and rugged.

Of you can use INCLUDETEXT fields, which is a way of having a Master
Document when you are not having a master document

The techniques are discussed here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/253957

Note: On the Mac, use two FORWARD slashes where they use double
back-slashes in their file names

But before we even go down that route, let's stop and ask yourself an
important question: "Why" do you need a Master Document? What for?

If your document is shorter than about five thousand pages in total, simply
make it a normal document. Everything will work, and everything will be
simple.

Just paste the various bits into a clean main document, and edit as normal.
Word will slow down a bit, but it won't break (assuming you have sufficient
memory in the workstation: you need about four gigs of RAM if you're going
to attack large documents).

Either way, we need to clean up your copy of Word, because during the
various fiddlings with broken documents it sounds like Word's preferences
have picked up a disease

To fix it, do this:

Either your preferences or your Normal template have picked up rubbish.

1) Track down all instances of pre-2008 Normal template on your computer,
and drag them to your desktop. The file is called simply "Normal" and has
no extension.

2) Find and delete the file Normal.dotm. Unless you have moved it, it
should be in
~/Library/Application Support/Microsoft/Office/User Templates/

3) If the following files exist, Remove or rename them:

~/Library/Preferences/Microsoft/Word Settings (10)

~/Library/Preferences/Microsoft/Word Settings (11)

~/Library/Preferences/com.Microsoft.Word.plist

~/Library/Preferences/Microsoft/Office 2008 (the whole folder!)

4) Ensure that your copy of OS X is right up-to-date with the latest patches
issued by Apple. Run Software Update until it finds nothing!

5) Apply the Microsoft 12.2.0 and 12.2.3 and 12.2.4 updates, in that order,
if needed.

6) Then Repair Permissions with Disk Utility.

7) Now start Font Book and "Resolve Duplicates". Office installs some later
versions of fonts already in place: you must get the duplicates out, or Word
will crash.

8) Now shut down, wait for the power to go off, then re-start. This fires
the Unix clean-up scripts.

Should be good to go now.

Dear John,

Again, thanks so much! Will do later today. Two more things might be of
importance:

1. 15 of the 17 subdocuments come from 15 different authors. Some of them have
enormous numbers of templates/styles installed that are now available in the
masterdocument and might cause trouble. I tried to remove them
individually/collectively in both the masterdocument and/or the subdocuments
(format/style/organizer) but Word either crashes or does not save the changes,
i.e. next time I open the document all the deleted styles are still there.

2. For a number of weeks Word has been very unstable anyway, although I have
installed all latest updates and patches. For instance, whenever I try to
close the program as such, it will not let me do so correctly. It re-opens
automatically after a while and can only be quit at the second attempt. Maybe
that plays a role as well?

THANK YOU!!!!

Alexander

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410 | mailto:[email protected]

 

[ACTG]

Dear John,

I hate to repeat myself but I must: thanks so very much for your help! It is truly appreciated, and Word now works just fine -- again.

While I also understand your advice with regard to the masterdocument feature, what would you suggest as an alternative? I have been sticking to it since it allows precisely what I need: the possibility to edit and work on the entire document while being able to exchange revised versions of the 15 chapters with their authors on an individual basis. If I create one large document (as you suggest) I could not do that without having to copy, paste, format and reformat all the time, right? Or is there another, possibly better, more elegant and safer way to do this? Of course I would not want to overburden Word but this is precisely what I need it to do...

As ever,

Alexander

 

[Rob Schneider]

Alexander,

John has a *lot* more experience and knowledge than I.

That being said, I've had good success at doing very large writing
projects like with people who were less proficient or even interested
than me. My role was to pull it all together and deliver the documents.

1. I used Windows Word to prove a process over the years. No
experience with large document project with Mac version of Word (which
I'm using now pretty much exclusively but on small individual projects).
I'm not saying Mac version won't work; just don't have any experience.

2. We *required* authors to learn and use a simple set of styles (Body
Text, Heading 1, Heading 2, Heading 3, Bullet List, etc.). These
delivered in templates. If they didn't cooperator or couldn't figure it
out--a signal they were not sufficiently capable to be part of our team.

2. We had a robust way of managing versions. Before using Microsoft
SharePoint, we had a staff member whose job was to take and manage
nightly backups of the shared folder on the file server. We often had
to "go back" to previous versions (not only due to Word acting up but
also bad writing). Since we had a way to go back we took advantage of
that. It's a *good thing* to have frequent backups of previous versions.

3. When SharePoint became available, we used that (c. 2003). It's
terrific. Simple fit for purpose. Low cost. There we *required* authors
to learn and use check out and check in. Again, required this.
Versioning and recovery to past versions becomes trivial.

4. In SharePoint, we store the templates, the sub documents, and the
master documents. We link to the SP copies (using HTTP:// file URLs).
It just works and it makes no difference if the SP server is inside the
company, or using a third party service. If you don't have SP, find
something that does same.

5. Sometimes people messed up and didn't use styles right. So the
folks in the "center" of these project teams checked the doc's out and
fixed them ... using a collaborative approach. Pulling together the
master document was hard work; but the work was associated with the
writing and not the word processing.

The process works.


--rms

www.rmschneider.com

 

[John_McGhie_[MVP]]

I use a single large document if there are very few authors.

I use RD (Referenced Document) fields and separate documents for huge
documents or where there are multiple authors.

For smaller projects, I use separate files and INCLUDETEXT fields.

Here is part of a VERY old post by me in 2001 when I was still across the
Dark Side, that tells you how to do it...

Each page of the master must be sequentially
page numbered.

You will need to set the starting number on each page.  You can do this by
opening each document, looking to see what the last page number is, then
setting the starting page number of the next file to be one more than that.

Or you can use "Folio by Chapter", there you set the starting number of the
Heading 1 in each file, then the page numbers can run from 1 to last, and
your page field produces "Page 3-27" where 3 is the starting number of the
first Heading 1 in the file.

 And the master must have a  TOC.

That's easy:  Use RD fields.  Look these up in the Help under RD Filed
(Referenced Document).  Take great care with the syntax: note the need to
double the back-slashes and quote the whole string if it contains any
spaces.


Here's an example:

{ TOC }
{ RD "Hard Drive:My Documents:Chapter 1" }
{ RD "Hard Drive:My Documents:Chapter 2" }
{ RD "Hard Drive:My Documents:Chapter 3" }


The idiots who wrote the Word 2008 Help left all documentation of Fields out
of it {Sigh...} The topic they should have included is here:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word/HP051861871033.aspx

Note: COLONS, not back-slashes in Mac Word. (I think forward slashes will
also work in Word 2008).

Hope this helps.

Dear John,

I hate to repeat myself but I must: thanks so very much for your help! It is
truly appreciated, and Word now works just fine -- again.

While I also understand your advice with regard to the masterdocument feature,
what would you suggest as an alternative? I have been sticking to it since it
allows precisely what I need: the possibility to edit and work on the entire
document while being able to exchange revised versions of the 15 chapters with
their authors on an individual basis. If I create one large document (as you
suggest) I could not do that without having to copy, paste, format and
reformat all the time, right? Or is there another, possibly better, more
elegant and safer way to do this? Of course I would not want to overburden
Word but this is precisely what I need it to do...

As ever,

Alexander

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410 | mailto:[email protected]