messed up replace function

J

JosypenkoMJ

I took a Word file from a PC to my Mac, OS 9. I am trying to replace 2
carriage returns (^p ^p ) with a page break (^m) . I paste 2 carriage
returns in the find function and it can find 2 carriage returns. But
in the replace function, the find button thinks the 2 carriage returns
are 3, and finds 3 carriage returns. Even worse, if I do a replace for
whatever is found with a page break, Word inserts a picture with the
letters /wEWBAK19Or9C at the location, as a page break. Any ideas
what's going on and why Word is so totally messed up ?{
 
J

John McGhie

Your question is by no means clear.

The answer is either:

"The options were not set correctly in the Search/Replace box" or "The
document is corrupt".

If you can be a lot more clear, and give the version numbers of Word and the
OS on each side of the operation, I may be able to do better.

Cheers


I took a Word file from a PC to my Mac, OS 9. I am trying to replace 2
carriage returns (^p ^p ) with a page break (^m) . I paste 2 carriage
returns in the find function and it can find 2 carriage returns. But
in the replace function, the find button thinks the 2 carriage returns
are 3, and finds 3 carriage returns. Even worse, if I do a replace for
whatever is found with a page break, Word inserts a picture with the
letters /wEWBAK19Or9C at the location, as a page break. Any ideas
what's going on and why Word is so totally messed up ?{

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
J

JosypenkoMJ

To be more clear, with more details :

- on the PC, I was copying Inet pages from IE into a Word file and
separating them with page breaks. Don't presently know the Word
version.
- I copied the file via Email to Mac, OS 9.
- in Word 2001, the file looked ok. I printed the file, but the page
breaks were not printed; the original Inet pages followed each other
with no page breaks between them
- I closed the file and reopened it and the page breaks were gone.
- I tried to replace the missing page breaks by trying to replace 2
carriage returns (^p ^p ), which now separate the Inet pages, with a
page break (^m) . I paste 2 carriage returns in the find function and
it can find 2 carriage returns. But in the replace function, the find
button finds 3 carriage returns instead.
- even worse, if I do a replace for the found 3 carriage returns, with
a page break, Word inserts a picture with the letters /wEWBAK19Or9C
at the found location, instead of a page break. Is this an error code
for some (undefined) state Word cannot handle ?
- if I do the same find and replace 2 carriage returns with a page
break for a Word file made on the Mac, it works ok.

Your answer of a corrupt file seems possible. I would guess the
Email is the corrupting source. I noticed recently our server started
to corrupt Quick Time movie files (.mov ) sent from Mac to PC.
Is incompatability between PC and Mac Word files also possible ?
 
J

John McGhie

OK. I think the one thing it "can't" be is an incompatibility between the
file versions on the PC and the Mac.

The files are not only compatible, they are *exactly the same*, bit-for-bit.
I guess it is possible that the PC file is a Word 2007 .docx. But in that
case, I would expect it not to open at all in an OS 9 version of Word.

I think it is more likely that the "carriage returns" are just that,
carriage returns, and not the "paragraph marks" that Word is expecting.

Try finding the "line break" character ^l and see if the Search finds that.

Text pasted from the internet frequently pastes as one long single paragraph
formatted with line breaks (carriage returns) and not the 0D0A (carriage
return + line feed) that Word is expecting.

The strange letters look like a bit of fractured RTF, which is why I am
suspecting that the document might be corrupt.

You could try these two procedures to see if they fix it:

Save as Web Page

1. Open the document
2. File>Save As... And choose Web Page
3. In the bottom of the dialog, make CERTAIN ³Save entire file² is checked.
4. Save the file and close the document
5. Quit Word and re-start it
6. Open the Web Page version of the file
7. File>Save as and this time choose ³Document²
8. Give the file a different name, so you have the old one to go back to.
9. Check the file for missing bits.

If you choose ³Save Display information only² you strip out the code in the
file that enables Word to re-create a document from it later. By forcing
Word to re-express the file in a different format, you cause it to discard
any code it cannot understand. That fixes the problem, but it can lead to
missing text.

The Maggie:

1. Create a new blank document
2. Carefully select all of the text in the bad document EXCEPT the last
paragraph mark
3. Copy it.
4. Paste in the new document.
5. Save under a new file name and close all, then re-open.

This technique for de-corrupting is known as "Doing a 'Maggie'", after
Margaret Secara from the Word PC-L mailing list who first publicised the
technique.

Hope this helps

To be more clear, with more details :

- on the PC, I was copying Inet pages from IE into a Word file and
separating them with page breaks. Don't presently know the Word
version.
- I copied the file via Email to Mac, OS 9.
- in Word 2001, the file looked ok. I printed the file, but the page
breaks were not printed; the original Inet pages followed each other
with no page breaks between them
- I closed the file and reopened it and the page breaks were gone.
- I tried to replace the missing page breaks by trying to replace 2
carriage returns (^p ^p ), which now separate the Inet pages, with a
page break (^m) . I paste 2 carriage returns in the find function and
it can find 2 carriage returns. But in the replace function, the find
button finds 3 carriage returns instead.
- even worse, if I do a replace for the found 3 carriage returns, with
a page break, Word inserts a picture with the letters /wEWBAK19Or9C
at the found location, instead of a page break. Is this an error code
for some (undefined) state Word cannot handle ?
- if I do the same find and replace 2 carriage returns with a page
break for a Word file made on the Mac, it works ok.

Your answer of a corrupt file seems possible. I would guess the
Email is the corrupting source. I noticed recently our server started
to corrupt Quick Time movie files (.mov ) sent from Mac to PC.
Is incompatability between PC and Mac Word files also possible ?

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
J

JosypenkoMJ

The different types of line breaks makes sense. I've noticed most
Web pages end lines with the Unix LF, not the PC CR LF or Mac CR.
I wish the computer world would settle on one type of line ending.
It's always a pain when tranferring text files between Mac and PC.
It may be a few days before I get back to you on the fixes, because
the Word file is at another location. Thanks.
 
J

John McGhie

Would be nice, wouldn't it :)

Word has a kludge that fixes up line-ends between Mac and PC. It's a little
baffled by Unix line-enders :)

Cheers


The different types of line breaks makes sense. I've noticed most
Web pages end lines with the Unix LF, not the PC CR LF or Mac CR.
I wish the computer world would settle on one type of line ending.
It's always a pain when tranferring text files between Mac and PC.
It may be a few days before I get back to you on the fixes, because
the Word file is at another location. Thanks.

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
J

JosypenkoMJ

(Since this is late, don't know if this will get to you - thus
trying also the CC: on the reply).
I think I've come to conclusion Word can be a confusing mess, if one
does not have the viewpoint of MS who wrote Word (which should be
documented somewhere).
I started to think about what you said about the different line and
page breaks, and turned on viewing nonprintable characters (Edit/
preferences/view/Nonprinting characters/ Hidden text - on). It turns
out the file copied from PC to Mac is not corrupt. This is how the
boundaries between the web pages looks (I was copying web pages into a
Word file and inserting page breaks between the pages) :

web page

little picture with printed code
Bottom of Figure mark
page break
Top of Figure mark
little picture with printed code

web page

It turns out all the stuff between the web pages are of font Effects
hidden, and thus I was inserting page breaks into an area of hidden
fonts. When I copied the file to the Mac, the page breaks were
apparent the first time I opened the file, afterwards they
disappeared, which should be the case since the page breaks were of
font type "Effects hidden". I don't know why they were apparent the
first time the file was opened. When I turn on "view/Nonprinting
characters/ Hidden text", the page breaks are present.
This is not apparent on the PC because the print view shows a view
that doesn't change if the page breaks are visible or hidden.
On the side, technically "Edit/preferences/view/Nonprinting
characters/ Hidden text" is incorrect. Text a printable, not a
"Nonprinting character". Text starts at Ascii code 32. Control
characters range 0 to31; a page break (form feed) is a 12. Thus, a
page break should not be controlled by a "Hidden text" button - it is
not text. Likewise, a page break is not a font, and thus should not be
considered a font that can be made hidden.Ñ
 
J

John McGhie

At 0-dark-five-30 in the morning, which is when you sent that, I am on the
way to WORK.

And all queue-jumping attempts that turn up in my inbox are rewarded with
the dreaded binary middle finger :) Australians REALLY do not like
queue-jumpers :)

I think I've come to conclusion Word can be a confusing mess, if one
does not have the viewpoint of MS who wrote Word (which should be
documented somewhere).

The Microsoft Word Document Object Model is documented in the Help. If you
want to get serious with Word, you need to know it. It's here:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb225019.aspx

I think the mistake was trying to dumb-down the user interface for people
who do not have any interest in creating complex documents. That's a bit
like taking controls out of the cockpit off a Boeing 747: people who do not
know how to fly will find it "easy to use", but the Airline Captain trying
to get to London will be distinctly unamused...
It turns out all the stuff between the web pages are of font Effects
hidden,

Seriously: It's up to you to know whether you are working with "Hidden"
text. If you are, you need to know whether your hidden text is revealed or
not. If it is not revealed, you need to know whether you are in a paginated
view or not. If you are in a paginated view and you hide the page breaks,
you will get no page breaks :)
This is not apparent on the PC because the print view shows a view
that doesn't change if the page breaks are visible or hidden.

Well it is supposed to. Sounds like the PC guys might have a bug :)
On the side, technically "Edit/preferences/view/Nonprinting
characters/ Hidden text" is incorrect. Text a printable, not a
"Nonprinting character". Text starts at Ascii code 32. Control
characters range 0 to31; a page break (form feed) is a 12. Thus, a
page break should not be controlled by a "Hidden text" button - it is
not text. Likewise, a page break is not a font, and thus should not be
considered a font that can be made hidden.

What you say makes sense. But the clueless idiots in charge of dumbing down
Word decided that "ordinary users" would not understand the term "Control
Characters", so they changed it...

Word is massively more difficult to learn than it was when I learned it.
Not because Word got harder, but because the Help got castrated at the
behest of the Marketing 'droids who have never known how to make documents
in the first place.

{Sigh}

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
J

JosypenkoMJ

I'm not sure what queue jumping is. Sorry if I should not have used
CC: - I'm not sure how this Google interface works. Is it like Email,
or does a person have to manually check for a reponse every day by
looking at the thread ? If I respond a couple weeks later, the person
may think I forgot to respond and stop checking.
I wasn't aware of hidden text. It seems to be a strange thing to
have in a word processor - someone wants to say something, but then
wants noone to know about it. Now I have to check received Word
documents for hidden text - confusing.
However, in a graphic modeling program, hiding objects makes sense
because often one wants to see whats inside, eg.
 
J

John McGhie

Sorry, I was being evil :)

Outside of America, it is considered polite to wait in line for service at
places like supermarkets and bus-stops. And very offensive to push to the
front of the line without waiting your turn.

The likely response varies, but in places like Sydney or London, you would
need good health insurance cover if you jump the queue often {Giggle}.

Sending a drop-copy email in this forum is the equivalent of queue-jumping.
The problem is that if I responded to the email, then only you get to see
the answer. The whole idea of a "forum" is that everyone gets to benefit
and everyone gets to contribute. Private emails break the cycle.

I don't know anything about the Google interface either. The text you read
here originates on the Microsoft news server at msnews.microsoft.com

It then appears all over the Internet as various slime-ball companies
attempt to surround it with their own advertising. Sometimes the responses
you make there are seen by the rest of us, sometimes not. Some of the web
interfaces send you an email when you get a response, most don't.

So yes, you need to keep checking back. That's a lot easier of you use a
newsreader such as Entourage to keep track of us:
http://word.mvps.org/Mac/AccessNewsgroups.html

Hidden text is used regularly in corporate work to do things like hide the
instructions in a template until you need them, or to hide the comments
before printing a document. Its sole purpose is to provide optional text
that can be hidden before printing. Its use is dying out now, since the
majority of text is not designed to appear on paper these days.

You shouldn't need to check incoming documents for it: it's up to the Author
to do that. But you should indeed check outgoing documents to make sure you
haven't left any that you have forgotten about :)

Cheers

I'm not sure what queue jumping is. Sorry if I should not have used
CC: - I'm not sure how this Google interface works. Is it like Email,
or does a person have to manually check for a reponse every day by
looking at the thread ? If I respond a couple weeks later, the person
may think I forgot to respond and stop checking.
I wasn't aware of hidden text. It seems to be a strange thing to
have in a word processor - someone wants to say something, but then
wants noone to know about it. Now I have to check received Word
documents for hidden text - confusing.
However, in a graphic modeling program, hiding objects makes sense
because often one wants to see whats inside, eg.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 

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