Microsoft Developer web page - bad links, no reference forEntourage applescript

[Bill Bryson]

Hello,

Can someone a bit closer to the inner sanctum at Microsoft report that there
is no Applescript reference guide for Entourage 2004 at:

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/resources/resources.aspx?pid=asforoffice

although there are for the other Office apps.

If no guide is planned, could they at least make a reference that a person
could open the Script Editor, File menu and Open Dictionary to see classes
etc. that Entourage does recognizes.

Also The link on the bottom of the above web page that is used to subscribe
to the newsletter does not work. I was able to subscribe using the link on
the right. However, Microsoft needs to check the linkage of their
newsletter pages since I got the 404 error a bit later as well.

Bill

 

[Paul Berkowitz]

Can someone a bit closer to the inner sanctum at Microsoft report that there
is no Applescript reference guide for Entourage 2004 at:

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/resources/resources.aspx?pid=asforoffice

although there are for the other Office apps.

They are fully aware of that, since they're the ones that provided the other
References. It would be nice to have an Entourage Reference, too, of course,
but it is much less urgent for the following reasons:

1) Office 2004 completely re-implemented AppleScript for Word, Excel and
PowerPoint (but not for Entourage). The AppleScript object model for those
three applications (but not for Entourage) hooks into the same object model
as the Visual Basic for Applications for those 3 apps. (There is no VBA for
Entourage.)

2) The VBA model and syntax is very, very different from the standard
AppleScript model. As a result, the AppleScript syntax for Word, Excel, and
PowerPoint 2004 is very unorthodox. Trying to use the dictionaries without
additional help would have been extremely puzzling and frustrating, even (or
especially) to expert AppleScripters. So help had be provided. None of this
is true for Entourage (see 4 below).

3) Such help already existed in the Help files for VBA. (Check
Word/Tools/Macros/VBE Editor/Help, and browse the Help there.) So all they
had to do was get someone to "translate" the VBA Help into AppleScript
format, plus provide a general introductory section. It was decided to do it
as a .pdf document rather than as Help files, since there was no way to get
into Script Editor's Help. Again, there is no such pre-existing Help for
Entourage AppleScript.

4) Entourage's AppleScript dictionary is one of the very best and clearest
on the Mac. It was built on top of the earlier Outlook Express AppleScript
dictionary, and was logically designed according to the Apple guidelines as
to how to implement AppleScript. (In fact, it's a lot better than the
AppleScript implementation for all the OX X Apple iApps.) It _does_ have a
few quirks, which really should be explained in a Reference, but ask here if
you hit any: there are quite a few Entourage AppleScript experts here.

If no guide is planned, could they at least make a reference that a person
could open the Script Editor, File menu and Open Dictionary to see classes
etc. that Entourage does recognizes.

5) AppleScripters do not need to be told to look in the Entourage dictionary
in Script Editor. It goes without saying that to script any application you
have to look in its dictionary: that's how AppleScript works. If you are
brand new to AppleScript and don't know that, then what you need to do first
is learn AppleScript: and I believe there are links in the Developer section
to the AppleScript page on the Apple site where you will find more links to
books and tutorials. One of the first things you will learn in any such book
or tutorial is to look in the application's dictionary when scripting an
application. But you also need to learn basic AppleScript language syntax
before you can attempt scripting an application. Recommendations for books:

AppleScript: The Missing Manual (Adam Goldstein/O'Reilly): a basic
introduction to get you started, not enough to learn in detail or become
expert

AppleScript: The Definitive Guide, 2nd ed (Matt Neuburg/O'Reilly): the best
book on the language, especially if you've done any programming before

AppleScript: A Comprehensive Guide (Hanaan Rosenthal/friendsOfEd): really
through and comprehensive, step by step, 900 pages, includes some
application scripting

An AppleScript Handbook, 3rd ed (Danny Goodman/toExcel): a good general
introduction, good on the language

Also The link on the bottom of the above web page that is used to subscribe
to the newsletter does not work. I was able to subscribe using the link on
the right. However, Microsoft needs to check the linkage of their
newsletter pages since I got the 404 error a bit later as well.

That's interesting. There are a lot of links not working (like Help/Send
Feedback in each Office app.)

You found the best resource for help right here.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.

 

[Bill Bryson]

Paul,

Thanks for providing info on Applescript and why Entourage is different in
that regard from the other Office apps.

The reason I was researching Applescript was because Entourage is not
handling the message filing for shared mailboxes as we want. For example,
if a user has access to a shared mailbox, messages sent by the user on
behalf of the account are being placed in the "Sent Items" of the main
Exchange account and not in the "Sent Items" of the shared mailbox. This
can be worked around by creating an outgoing rule that moves any message
with a "From" containing the shared mailbox email address to the "Sent
Items" of the shared mailbox.

However, when the user deletes a message from the shared mailbox (connected
to via the Delegates tab in Account setup), the deleted message is placed in
the main account's "Deleted Items" folder not in the shared mailbox's
"Deleted Items" folder. Is there a rule or applescript that would move
deleted messages between "Deleted Items" folders when a message is deleted?

Here is our scenario:

User X is set up using Entourage 11.2.1 with Exchange 2003 server.
The user has been granted access to a shared mailbox named PCRepair.
The user has connected to the shared mailbox using
Tools/Accounts/Edit/Delegate tab, etc/

Entourage is NOT using the "Sent Items", "Deleted Items" or "Drafts" (I
assume J-Email as well) of the shared mailbox but those of the user's
personal account. Thus messages sent, deleted or saved as draft are
counting against the person's mailbox quota and not the shared resource.

This may make sense since Entourage has only one account but from an
organization standpoint, the user expects things that are sent, saved or
deleted to be stored in the shared mailbox area if the "From" is the shared
mailbox as chosen on the pop-down list.


Bill

 

[Paul Berkowitz]

Paul,

Thanks for providing info on Applescript and why Entourage is different in
that regard from the other Office apps.

The reason I was researching Applescript was because Entourage is not
handling the message filing for shared mailboxes as we want. For example,
if a user has access to a shared mailbox, messages sent by the user on
behalf of the account are being placed in the "Sent Items" of the main
Exchange account and not in the "Sent Items" of the shared mailbox. This
can be worked around by creating an outgoing rule that moves any message
with a "From" containing the shared mailbox email address to the "Sent
Items" of the shared mailbox.

However, when the user deletes a message from the shared mailbox (connected
to via the Delegates tab in Account setup), the deleted message is placed in
the main account's "Deleted Items" folder not in the shared mailbox's
"Deleted Items" folder. Is there a rule or applescript that would move
deleted messages between "Deleted Items" folders when a message is deleted?

Here is our scenario:

User X is set up using Entourage 11.2.1 with Exchange 2003 server.
The user has been granted access to a shared mailbox named PCRepair.
The user has connected to the shared mailbox using
Tools/Accounts/Edit/Delegate tab, etc/

Entourage is NOT using the "Sent Items", "Deleted Items" or "Drafts" (I
assume J-Email as well) of the shared mailbox but those of the user's
personal account. Thus messages sent, deleted or saved as draft are
counting against the person's mailbox quota and not the shared resource.

This may make sense since Entourage has only one account but from an
organization standpoint, the user expects things that are sent, saved or
deleted to be stored in the shared mailbox area if the "From" is the shared
mailbox as chosen on the pop-down list.

That's an interesting question. I do not have a full-featured Exchange
account (just a simple one for testing) and no delegation, so I can't really
test.

To some degree, the Exchange accounts are like other server accounts (IMAP),
but in some ways they differ. For example you cannot specify which folders
to use as Sent Items, Deleted Items, etc. They're built in.

I can see why you might want a deleted message from a delegated Inbox to
move to the true owner's Deleted Items rather than the delegate's Deleted
Items, but there are no options to control that. AppleScript will not help
much you since there are no "event-driven" commands - no way to intercept
the Delete button or key or menu item. The best you could do by AppleScript
would be to run a Schedule every minute or two that runs a script which
looks at every message inside your Deleted Items and moves it to the
sender's Deleted Items if the sender is one of those for whom you are a
delegate. (And this is one of those things I can test, but I can give you a
script to test yourself if you think this might be worth trying.)

Personally, I think it would be preferable just to tell the person with
delegate rights to MOVE the message from the sender's Sent Items (or Inbox)
to that same person's Deleted Items folder instead of clicking the Delete
button or pressing the Delete key. As far as I know (again without being
able to test) she should be able to move the message to the correct folder
either by dragging it in the Folder list or by pressing the Move button and
choosing the correct Deleted Items folder. In all cases (including the
script method) this presumes that the delegate has rights over that Deleted
Items folder.

Second question: since the Exchange server is going to purge ALL the Deleted
Items folders on its maintenance schedule anyway (yes?), without either user
being able to control that schedule from Entourage (or elsewhere?), what
difference does it make? The message will soon be purged no matter what.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.