Mortgage Calculator

[robertt3]

Thanks for reading

I refinance my house at a lower interest rate, I made a amortization
schedule but I'm not comming up with what Chase Bank has.

Here's how I figures it.

Balance *0.0521/365*31 = new balance

Is this correct?

Thanks
Bob

 

[JoeU2004]

I refinance my house at a lower interest rate,
I made a amortization schedule but I'm not
comming up with what Chase Bank has.

If you post the terms of the refinance and what Chase has come up (at least
a few months), I'm sure we can help you. By "terms", I mean: points and
any other up-front fees, new rate, current balance, new term of loan
(months), payment (as Chase determined it), payment frequency (monthly?),
and additional fees paid with the each payment (e.g. PMI).

Balance *0.0521/365*31 = new balance
Is this correct?

Probably not. If anything, that only computes the interest for a period of
31 days. But your formula is probably not correct even for that.

If you are trying to compute the outstanding balance after monthly payment,
the correct formula is:

newBalance = prevBalance * (1 + monthlyIntRate) - payment

where monthlyIntRate is usually annualRate/12. "Payment" is whatever the
bank determines, based on its policies.


----- original message -----

 

[robertt3]

Every mortage calculator i use comes up with a payment of $702.79,
Chase has a payment of 705.34.

Loan $65,623.00
Interest 5.210%
10 year fix
119 payments of 705.34
120th payment of 704.69
No taxes or insurance on loan.

I don't have a schedule from the bank, but when I figuer the
Amortization Schedule my last payment is hundreds of dollars off..
Thanks for helping.
Bob

 

[JoeU2004]

Every mortage calculator i use comes up with a payment
of $702.79, Chase has a payment of 705.34.

Of course, the simplest and best way to answer this is to talk to a loan
officer at Chase. Present the same information, and ask for an explanation
of the difference.

Loan $65,623.00
Interest 5.210%
10 year fix
119 payments of 705.34
120th payment of 704.69

I will continue to reverse-engineer these numbers to see if I can offer an
interpretation that matches the bank's payment schedule.

In the meantime, FYI, this is how you would compute the monthly payment,
assuming the information above is correct.

=ROUND(PMT(5.21%/12, 120, -65623), 2)

But of course, that simply duplicates what the online mortgage calculators
tell you: 702.79.

Based on that, the last payment would be 702.66. This is determined by:

=ROUND(FV(5.21%/12, 119, 702.79, -65623)*(1 + 5.21%/12), 2)

But as I said, this is based on some assumptions, which are obviously
incorrect.

I will post an update later.

One last detail: what is the date of the first payment of the refinanced
loan?


----- original message -----

 

[JoeU2004]

PS....

One last detail: what is the date of the first
payment of the refinanced loan?

Also, I assume we're talking about a US loan. Right?

And what is the refinance loan origination date?


----- original message -----

 

[JoeU2004]

Well, I do believe the best way to get a dispositive answer is to talk to a
loan officer at Chase, as I said before.

I hope you post their explanation here.

There is something inconsistent about the numbers that you posted.

Using the payment schedule that you posted (705.34 monthly with a last
payment of 704.69), I compute an annual rate of about 5.2775% to 5.3475%
under varying assumptions about the structure of the loan, for example:
simple and compounded daily rates using exact days between payments,
365-day-only years as well as 366-day leap years; and US and Canadian
monthly rates. That range of rates is significantly different from 5.210%.

Alternatively, using annual rates between 5.205% and 5.2149...9%, I compute
an original loan of about $65,845.68 to $65,875.92, not even close to
$65,623. (I did not realize until later that your wrote 5.210%, which might
suggest that the annual rate is limited 5.2095% to 5.21049...9%, a narrower
range.)

I have a couple of theories, assuming that your posted numbers are correct.


1. You are overlooking the addition of a periodic maintenance charge that is
added to the payment.

That is not uncommon for loans with special payment schedules, e.g.
biweekly. But yours is a "normal" loan with monthly payments.


2. Chase is disclosing 5.210%, but it is actually charging about 5.2889%
applied monthly.

I think that is unlikely. But it seems to be within my interpretation of
the requirements of the US "Truth in Lending" regulations (aka "Reg Z"),
which states that a disclosed rate need only be within +/- 0.125 percent
points of the actual rate. (I find that surprising in this day and age.)

I used Solver and a complete amortization schedule to determine the annual
rates based on the varying payment schedule. But for the purpose of talking
with Chase, you could use the following approximation based on a regular
monthly rate:

=12*RATE(120, 705.34, -65623)


FYI, for a given annual rate applied monthly and regular monthly payment,
you could use the following to approximate the original loan:

=PV(5.21%/12, 120, -705.34)

Again, I used Solver and a complete amortization schedule so that I could
apply the last payment of $704.69.


Sorry that I could not be more helpful. I hope I am not overlooking
something obvious myself.

I am very interested in what you learn from Chase. If you do not want to
post here, you can send email to joeu2004 "at" hotmail.com.


----- original message -----

 

[JoeU2004]

Every mortage calculator i use comes up with a
payment of $702.79, Chase has a payment of 705.34.

I have two models that come close to explaining the disparity. And the
correct answer could be a combination of the two, possibly in concert with
my speculation elsewhere in this thread that the exact interest rate is
something other than 5.210% (at least anywhere between 5.2095% and
5.21049...9%).


1. The refinance points and any other up-front fees total about $238.83, and
they were taken out of the first monthly payment.

In that case, the regular payment can be computed by the following:

=ROUND(PMT(5.21%/12,120,-(65623 + 238.83*(1-5.21%/12))), 2)

That does result in $705.34.

Likewise, the last payment can be computed by the following:

=ROUNDUP(FV(5.21%/12,119,705.34,-(65623 + 238.83*(1-5.21%/12))) *
(1+5.21%/12), 2)

That does result in $704.69.


2. The first monthly payment includes some days of interest in addition to
the usual month between the loan origination date and the first payment.

For example, suppose the loan origination date is 9/20/2009 and the first
payment is due on 11/15/2009. Thus, the loan would accrue an additional 25
days of interest, which would be taken out of the first payment.

If the annual interest rate is actually about 5.211510706% [*] applied
monthly, the regular payment would indeed be $705.34 with a last payment of
$704.69.

The regular and last payments can be computed in a manner similar to the
formulas in #1, substituting the correct interest rate and replacing 238.83
with the expression (1-r/12)*65623*25*r/365, where "r" is the correct
interest rate.

[*] Elsewhere in this thread, I mentioned that I believe the US "Truth
in Lending" regulations permit the actual interest rate to be within +/-
0.125 percent points of the documented interest rate. However, it seems
unlikely to me that a lender like Chase would do that; and my interpretation
could be wrong, since it seems surprising in this day and age.


As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the best source for a dispositive
answer is the lender.

But the scenarios above might jar your memory of facts that you have not
mentioned yet -- or conditions that you can refute.


----- original message -----

 

[robertt3]

Joe
Thanks for the help, but I am in a total lost of what you wrote. I'll
mail the bank and ask why the difference. The total loan is
$65,623.00 nothing more.

Thanks much
Bob

Every mortage calculator i use comes up with a
payment of $702.79, Chase has a payment of 705.34.

I have two models that come close to explaining the disparity. And the
correct answer could be a combination of the two, possibly in concert with
my speculation elsewhere in this thread that the exact interest rate is
something other than 5.210% (at least anywhere between 5.2095% and
5.21049...9%).


1. The refinance points and any other up-front fees total about $238.83, and
they were taken out of the first monthly payment.

In that case, the regular payment can be computed by the following:

=ROUND(PMT(5.21%/12,120,-(65623 + 238.83*(1-5.21%/12))), 2)

That does result in $705.34.

Likewise, the last payment can be computed by the following:

=ROUNDUP(FV(5.21%/12,119,705.34,-(65623 + 238.83*(1-5.21%/12))) *
(1+5.21%/12), 2)

That does result in $704.69.


2. The first monthly payment includes some days of interest in addition to
the usual month between the loan origination date and the first payment.

For example, suppose the loan origination date is 9/20/2009 and the first
payment is due on 11/15/2009. Thus, the loan would accrue an additional 25
days of interest, which would be taken out of the first payment.

If the annual interest rate is actually about 5.211510706% [*] applied
monthly, the regular payment would indeed be $705.34 with a last payment of
$704.69.

The regular and last payments can be computed in a manner similar to the
formulas in #1, substituting the correct interest rate and replacing 238.83
with the expression (1-r/12)*65623*25*r/365, where "r" is the correct
interest rate.

[*] Elsewhere in this thread, I mentioned that I believe the US "Truth
in Lending" regulations permit the actual interest rate to be within +/-
0.125 percent points of the documented interest rate. However, it seems
unlikely to me that a lender like Chase would do that; and my interpretation
could be wrong, since it seems surprising in this day and age.


As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the best source for a dispositive
answer is the lender.

But the scenarios above might jar your memory of facts that you have not
mentioned yet -- or conditions that you can refute.


----- original message -----

Every mortage calculator i use comes up with a payment of $702.79,
Chase has a payment of 705.34.

Loan $65,623.00
Interest 5.210%
10 year fix
119 payments of 705.34
120th payment of 704.69
No taxes or insurance on loan.

I don't have a schedule from the bank, but when I figuer the
Amortization Schedule my last payment is hundreds of dollars off..
Thanks for helping.
Bob

 

[JoeU2004]

The total loan is $65,623.00 nothing more.

No points?(!) Or are you saying the points were paid up-front, not part of
the first loan payment?

Can you at least tell us the loan origination date and the date of the first
payment?

Thanks for the help, but I am in a total lost of what
you wrote.

Understandable. The math got a little hairy. I actually could explain it,
and I could explain how you integrate it into an amortization schedule,
which is much easier to understand. But it's not worth the trouble for
either of us if its a red-herring.

However, for posterity, I do want to correct my formulas. They should
be....

For scenario #1, the regular payment is:

=ROUND(PMT(5.21%/12,120,-(65623 + 238.83/(1+5.21%/12))), 2)

The last payment:

=ROUND(FV(5.21%/12,119,705.34,-(65623 + 238.83/(1+5.21%/12)))
* (1+5.21%/12), 2)

For scenario #2, replace 5.21% with the correct interest rate ("r"), namely
about 5.211510706%, and replace 238.83 with the expression 65623*25*r/365.

I'll mail the bank and ask why the difference.

Good luck with that.

I do hope you post an update in this thread or send me email when you get
the explanation.


----- original message -----

Joe
Thanks for the help, but I am in a total lost of what you wrote. I'll
mail the bank and ask why the difference. The total loan is
$65,623.00 nothing more.

Thanks much
Bob

Every mortage calculator i use comes up with a
payment of $702.79, Chase has a payment of 705.34.

I have two models that come close to explaining the disparity. And the
correct answer could be a combination of the two, possibly in concert with
my speculation elsewhere in this thread that the exact interest rate is
something other than 5.210% (at least anywhere between 5.2095% and
5.21049...9%).


1. The refinance points and any other up-front fees total about $238.83,
and
they were taken out of the first monthly payment.

In that case, the regular payment can be computed by the following:

=ROUND(PMT(5.21%/12,120,-(65623 + 238.83*(1-5.21%/12))), 2)

That does result in $705.34.

Likewise, the last payment can be computed by the following:

=ROUNDUP(FV(5.21%/12,119,705.34,-(65623 + 238.83*(1-5.21%/12))) *
(1+5.21%/12), 2)

That does result in $704.69.


2. The first monthly payment includes some days of interest in addition to
the usual month between the loan origination date and the first payment.

For example, suppose the loan origination date is 9/20/2009 and the first
payment is due on 11/15/2009. Thus, the loan would accrue an additional
25
days of interest, which would be taken out of the first payment.

If the annual interest rate is actually about 5.211510706% [*] applied
monthly, the regular payment would indeed be $705.34 with a last payment
of
$704.69.

The regular and last payments can be computed in a manner similar to the
formulas in #1, substituting the correct interest rate and replacing
238.83
with the expression (1-r/12)*65623*25*r/365, where "r" is the correct
interest rate.

[*] Elsewhere in this thread, I mentioned that I believe the US "Truth
in Lending" regulations permit the actual interest rate to be within +/-
0.125 percent points of the documented interest rate. However, it seems
unlikely to me that a lender like Chase would do that; and my
interpretation
could be wrong, since it seems surprising in this day and age.


As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the best source for a dispositive
answer is the lender.

But the scenarios above might jar your memory of facts that you have not
mentioned yet -- or conditions that you can refute.


----- original message -----

Every mortage calculator i use comes up with a payment of $702.79,
Chase has a payment of 705.34.

Loan $65,623.00
Interest 5.210%
10 year fix
119 payments of 705.34
120th payment of 704.69
No taxes or insurance on loan.

I don't have a schedule from the bank, but when I figuer the
Amortization Schedule my last payment is hundreds of dollars off..
Thanks for helping.
Bob

I refinance my house at a lower interest rate,
I made a amortization schedule but I'm not
comming up with what Chase Bank has.

If you post the terms of the refinance and what Chase has come up (at
least
a few months), I'm sure we can help you. By "terms", I mean: points
and
any other up-front fees, new rate, current balance, new term of loan
(months), payment (as Chase determined it), payment frequency
(monthly?),
and additional fees paid with the each payment (e.g. PMI).


Balance *0.0521/365*31 = new balance
Is this correct?

Probably not. If anything, that only computes the interest for a period
of
31 days. But your formula is probably not correct even for that.

If you are trying to compute the outstanding balance after monthly
payment,
the correct formula is:

newBalance = prevBalance * (1 + monthlyIntRate) - payment

where monthlyIntRate is usually annualRate/12. "Payment" is whatever
the
bank determines, based on its policies.


----- original message -----

Thanks for reading

I refinance my house at a lower interest rate, I made a amortization
schedule but I'm not comming up with what Chase Bank has.

Here's how I figures it.

Balance *0.0521/365*31 = new balance

Is this correct?

Thanks
Bob

 

[robertt3]

This was a re-finance at a lower interest rate, I didn't pay points.
The total loan amount I finance was $65,623.00 nothing more.
I just sign papers Friday 10/2/09 so don't think I can get any info
from Chase Bank until the grace period is over.
I'll get the answer of the difference and let you know.

The total loan is $65,623.00 nothing more.

No points?(!) Or are you saying the points were paid up-front, not part of
the first loan payment?

Can you at least tell us the loan origination date and the date of the first
payment?

Thanks for the help, but I am in a total lost of what
you wrote.

Understandable. The math got a little hairy. I actually could explain it,
and I could explain how you integrate it into an amortization schedule,
which is much easier to understand. But it's not worth the trouble for
either of us if its a red-herring.

However, for posterity, I do want to correct my formulas. They should
be....

For scenario #1, the regular payment is:

=ROUND(PMT(5.21%/12,120,-(65623 + 238.83/(1+5.21%/12))), 2)

The last payment:

=ROUND(FV(5.21%/12,119,705.34,-(65623 + 238.83/(1+5.21%/12)))
* (1+5.21%/12), 2)

For scenario #2, replace 5.21% with the correct interest rate ("r"), namely
about 5.211510706%, and replace 238.83 with the expression 65623*25*r/365.

I'll mail the bank and ask why the difference.

Good luck with that.

I do hope you post an update in this thread or send me email when you get
the explanation.


----- original message -----

Joe
Thanks for the help, but I am in a total lost of what you wrote. I'll
mail the bank and ask why the difference. The total loan is
$65,623.00 nothing more.

Thanks much
Bob

Every mortage calculator i use comes up with a
payment of $702.79, Chase has a payment of 705.34.

I have two models that come close to explaining the disparity. And the
correct answer could be a combination of the two, possibly in concert with
my speculation elsewhere in this thread that the exact interest rate is
something other than 5.210% (at least anywhere between 5.2095% and
5.21049...9%).


1. The refinance points and any other up-front fees total about $238.83,
and
they were taken out of the first monthly payment.

In that case, the regular payment can be computed by the following:

=ROUND(PMT(5.21%/12,120,-(65623 + 238.83*(1-5.21%/12))), 2)

That does result in $705.34.

Likewise, the last payment can be computed by the following:

=ROUNDUP(FV(5.21%/12,119,705.34,-(65623 + 238.83*(1-5.21%/12))) *
(1+5.21%/12), 2)

That does result in $704.69.


2. The first monthly payment includes some days of interest in addition to
the usual month between the loan origination date and the first payment.

For example, suppose the loan origination date is 9/20/2009 and the first
payment is due on 11/15/2009. Thus, the loan would accrue an additional
25
days of interest, which would be taken out of the first payment.

If the annual interest rate is actually about 5.211510706% [*] applied
monthly, the regular payment would indeed be $705.34 with a last payment
of
$704.69.

The regular and last payments can be computed in a manner similar to the
formulas in #1, substituting the correct interest rate and replacing
238.83
with the expression (1-r/12)*65623*25*r/365, where "r" is the correct
interest rate.

[*] Elsewhere in this thread, I mentioned that I believe the US "Truth
in Lending" regulations permit the actual interest rate to be within +/-
0.125 percent points of the documented interest rate. However, it seems
unlikely to me that a lender like Chase would do that; and my
interpretation
could be wrong, since it seems surprising in this day and age.


As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the best source for a dispositive
answer is the lender.

But the scenarios above might jar your memory of facts that you have not
mentioned yet -- or conditions that you can refute.


----- original message -----

Every mortage calculator i use comes up with a payment of $702.79,
Chase has a payment of 705.34.

Loan $65,623.00
Interest 5.210%
10 year fix
119 payments of 705.34
120th payment of 704.69
No taxes or insurance on loan.

I don't have a schedule from the bank, but when I figuer the
Amortization Schedule my last payment is hundreds of dollars off..
Thanks for helping.
Bob

I refinance my house at a lower interest rate,
I made a amortization schedule but I'm not
comming up with what Chase Bank has.

If you post the terms of the refinance and what Chase has come up (at
least
a few months), I'm sure we can help you. By "terms", I mean: points
and
any other up-front fees, new rate, current balance, new term of loan
(months), payment (as Chase determined it), payment frequency
(monthly?),
and additional fees paid with the each payment (e.g. PMI).


Balance *0.0521/365*31 = new balance
Is this correct?

Probably not. If anything, that only computes the interest for a period
of
31 days. But your formula is probably not correct even for that.

If you are trying to compute the outstanding balance after monthly
payment,
the correct formula is:

newBalance = prevBalance * (1 + monthlyIntRate) - payment

where monthlyIntRate is usually annualRate/12. "Payment" is whatever
the
bank determines, based on its policies.


----- original message -----

Thanks for reading

I refinance my house at a lower interest rate, I made a amortization
schedule but I'm not comming up with what Chase Bank has.

Here's how I figures it.

Balance *0.0521/365*31 = new balance

Is this correct?

Thanks
Bob