Most file properties not saved if a preview picture is enabled

[Tim Murray]

System is 10.4.7, PowerPoint 2004 + all patches.

Problem is that if I have selected "save preview picture", no properties
other than the title and company are saved. The preview is never saved under
any conditions. If I don't choose to save a preview, then all other
properties are saved.

Anyone else see this, or, is there a fix?

 

[Jim Gordon]

Hi Tim,

I just tried it with 2004 with all updates, but a different version of
MacOSX.

The properties were saved including comments and custom properties. I
was able to see the preview in the Project Gallery as it should be.

To see the preview you need to use the Project Gallery. Are you using
Project Gallery for this purpose?

Is the problem with just one presentation or is it with all of them?

-Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

 

[Tim Murray]

Hi Tim,

I just tried it with 2004 with all updates, but a different version of
MacOSX.

The properties were saved including comments and custom properties. I
was able to see the preview in the Project Gallery as it should be.

To see the preview you need to use the Project Gallery. Are you using
Project Gallery for this purpose?

Is the problem with just one presentation or is it with all of them?

-Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

The Project Gallery shows them for Word, but not PowerPoint -- but then again
none of my PPT files *have* previews, at least that's what implied by the
fact that when a file is reopened the check box is cleared.

The problem is with all presentations.

 

[Tim Murray]

Hi Tim,

I just tried it with 2004 with all updates, but a different version of
MacOSX.

The properties were saved including comments and custom properties. I
was able to see the preview in the Project Gallery as it should be.

To see the preview you need to use the Project Gallery. Are you using
Project Gallery for this purpose?

Is the problem with just one presentation or is it with all of them?

-Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

And some more info (using only primary info fields). Also, I have QuickTime
7.1.3. It's a long story why this may be significant.

WORD - preview OFF - keeps all fields
WORD - preview ON - keeps Title, Subject, Author, Company. Preview works.

EXCEL - preview OFF - keeps all fields
EXCEL - preview ON - keeps Author, Company. No preview saved, but check box
remains checked next time file is opened.

PPT -- preview OFF - keeps all fields
PPT -- preview ON - keeps Title, Company. No preview saved. Check box
cleared next time file is opened

 

[Jim Gordon]

Hi Tim,

FWIW I am not using QuickTime version 7.1.3, although I don't think that
would matter for this problem. Can you give us a mini explanation as to
why you think it's significant?

-Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

 

[Tim Murray]

FWIW I am not using QuickTime version 7.1.3, although I don't think that
would matter for this problem. Can you give us a mini explanation as to
why you think it's significant?

Long ago I discovered -- and then it faded from memory -- that certain
versions of QT would cause Word to not deal properly with certain graphic
types. Presently, there is a problem with QT 7.1.3, Word, and EPS where some
EPS files come in nearly 100% black. Earlier testing found issues like (and
I'm just sort of making this one up from memory) a certain QT version that
caused Word to not import CMYK-based JPEGs at all.

The point is that I wonder if Word relies on QuickTime at a low level for
preview creation or preview viewing.

 

[Jim Gordon MVP]

Hi Tim,

I don't know exactly which file formats Office applications rely on outside
helper applications for.

Certainly all movies files are handled by QuickTime. Sound files other than
WAV are handled by external applications except in Word 2004 Notebook view.

I think Office has its own internal graphic handling routines. I don't think
it relies on QuickTime when dealing with pictures, but I could be wrong.

-Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

Long ago I discovered -- and then it faded from memory -- that certain
versions of QT would cause Word to not deal properly with certain graphic
types. Presently, there is a problem with QT 7.1.3, Word, and EPS where some
EPS files come in nearly 100% black. Earlier testing found issues like (and
I'm just sort of making this one up from memory) a certain QT version that
caused Word to not import CMYK-based JPEGs at all.

The point is that I wonder if Word relies on QuickTime at a low level for
preview creation or preview viewing.

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

Hi Tim,

I don't know exactly which file formats Office applications rely on outside
helper applications for.

Not sure of 2004, but if you look in the Office folder then open Shared
Applications:Graphics Filters, that's where it stores the external stuff. In X,
it's EPS and Metafile.

Recent PC versions handle EPS files quite differently than their predecessors;
rather than simply displaying the preview image, they make an attempt to
interpret the PS and display that. It may be that the preview display is bunged
but the PS portion's ok. The black image might actually print ok to a PostScript
printer (though not a non-PS one, because they use the preview image, not the
PS).

Are we satisfactorily confused now or should I go on? ;-)

Certainly all movies files are handled by QuickTime. Sound files other than
WAV are handled by external applications except in Word 2004 Notebook view.

I think Office has its own internal graphic handling routines. I don't think
it relies on QuickTime when dealing with pictures, but I could be wrong.

-Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

================================================
Steve Rindsberg, PPT MVP
PPT FAQ: www.pptfaq.com
PPTools: www.pptools.com
================================================

 

[Tim Murray]

Recent PC versions handle EPS files quite differently than their
predecessors; rather than simply displaying the preview image, they make
an attempt to interpret the PS and display that. It may be that the
preview display is bunged but the PS portion's ok. The black image might
actually print ok to a PostScript printer (though not a non-PS one,
because they use the preview image, not the PS).

Image was black to native (Quartz) PDF, PosgtScript+Distiller PDF, PostScript
printer, non-PS inkjet, and an HPGL.

 

[Tim Murray]

I think Office has its own internal graphic handling routines. I don't think
it relies on QuickTime when dealing with pictures, but I could be wrong.

There is indeed some kind of relationship, yet one would think that should
not be the case because a relationship (mildly) infers that if you don't have
QuickTime you can't use pictures. The tests I'm referring to went something
like this: Say you have QuickTime versions A, B, C, and so on. I don't have
my notes so I can't tell you if A=6.0.2 or A=7.0.1 or what, but in any case,
if you tried to import a CMYK-based JPEG, you would find that (for example) A
to C work, D and E fail, and then F works. So there is some kind of
relationship somewhere.

The JPEG thing, however, seems to have cleared up in recent versions. Now I'm
messing around with this issue of saving preview pictures, and, at times, EPS
files that come in as black, but that's for another thread.

In case anyone wants to see one, I have uploaded an EPS that comes in black
to http://homepage.mac.com/tlmurray/filechute/Imports_black.zip. It's zipped
with the resource fork preserved.

The file was last Save As'd with Illustrator CS2. It is an RBG mode, but all
grayscale lines. Yet at the same time I have Illustrator EPSs all over the
place, both CMYK and RGB, that work just fine.

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

Image was black to native (Quartz) PDF, PosgtScript+Distiller PDF, PostScript
printer, non-PS inkjet, and an HPGL.

That's after importing the image into PPT and then printing, is that correct?
What happens if you run the EPS through Distiller directly?

================================================
Steve Rindsberg, PPT MVP
PPT FAQ: www.pptfaq.com
PPTools: www.pptools.com
================================================

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

Thanks for making the EPS available. I don't have Mac PPT 2004 so can't help
with that, but can confirm that the EPS is OK. It imports, previews and prints
correctly to PPT 2003/Win, printing to a PS printer.

It imports black but prints correctly to a PS printer in Mac PPT X.

Does your version of Illustrator give you the option of saving different
versions of EPS? See if there'a a more "vanilla" version available than the
Illustrator EPS that includes both stock EPS code for the printer and the
original Illustrator data (this is what's in your zip).

There is indeed some kind of relationship, yet one would think that should
not be the case because a relationship (mildly) infers that if you don't have
QuickTime you can't use pictures. The tests I'm referring to went something
like this: Say you have QuickTime versions A, B, C, and so on. I don't have
my notes so I can't tell you if A=6.0.2 or A=7.0.1 or what, but in any case,
if you tried to import a CMYK-based JPEG, you would find that (for example) A
to C work, D and E fail, and then F works. So there is some kind of
relationship somewhere.

The JPEG thing, however, seems to have cleared up in recent versions. Now I'm
messing around with this issue of saving preview pictures, and, at times, EPS
files that come in as black, but that's for another thread.

In case anyone wants to see one, I have uploaded an EPS that comes in black
to http://homepage.mac.com/tlmurray/filechute/Imports_black.zip. It's zipped
with the resource fork preserved.

The file was last Save As'd with Illustrator CS2. It is an RBG mode, but all
grayscale lines. Yet at the same time I have Illustrator EPSs all over the
place, both CMYK and RGB, that work just fine.

================================================
Steve Rindsberg, PPT MVP
PPT FAQ: www.pptfaq.com
PPTools: www.pptools.com
================================================

 

[Tim Murray]

That's after importing the image into PPT and then printing, is that correct?
What happens if you run the EPS through Distiller directly?

1) Yes.
2) It is fine.

 

[Tim Murray]

Thanks for making the EPS available. I don't have Mac PPT 2004 so can't
help with that, but can confirm that the EPS is OK. It imports, previews
and prints correctly to PPT 2003/Win, printing to a PS printer.

It imports black but prints correctly to a PS printer in Mac PPT X.

Whoops: Earlier I said it printed black when distilling a PS file, but
actually it's okay. A Mac Quartz PDF is black (reversed, actually). I'm
trying both Word and PPT, although I would expect them to behave the same.

Does your version of Illustrator give you the option of saving different
versions of EPS? See if there'a a more "vanilla" version available than
the Illustrator EPS that includes both stock EPS code for the printer and
the original Illustrator data (this is what's in your zip).

Same thing when saved as version 8. I uploaded it to
http://homepage.mac.com/tlmurray/filechute/Imports_blackcs8.zip

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

Whoops: Earlier I said it printed black when distilling a PS file, but
actually it's okay. A Mac Quartz PDF is black (reversed, actually). I'm
trying both Word and PPT, although I would expect them to behave the same.

OK, that makes more sense then. As I understand it, Mac's "native" PDFs don't
go through a PS distillation process, so they'd "see" the preview image from
the EPS, not the real PS content; Distiller would convert the real PS content
of the EPS and wouldn't ever see the preview image, unless PPT/Word were
screwing up (not that that'd be a first, esp. where EPS is concerned! <g>)

And as it turns out, I was mistaken. I'd been playing some games swapping
older and newer EPS filter versions, and had an older version in place. Now
that I have the supplied version for Win/2003 installed, it imports your
original EPS as ... nada. An invisible "thing". The EPS/8 version of your
file works fine though.

One thing you might try that'll help nail down what's going on:

If you can, export an EPS of a simple color drawing, but make sure it has a
pure b/w TIFF preview image, not a color one.

I can email you a simple EPS like this if you can't easily produce one.

Use Insert, Picture, From File to bring it into PPT. If you get a b/w preview,
then the current EPS filter is doing the normal, expected thing: displaying
the preview IN the EPS itself.

If you see a color image instead, it means that the Office EPS import filter is
actually interpreting the PS content of the EPS and rasterizing its own bitmap
preview image or creating a metafile instead of using the one IN the EPS (as
called for in the Adobe EPS spec). Win Office 2002 and up do this. Not all
that bad an idea when it works, since it gives you a nicer looking preview and
better printouts/PDFs when you use a method that doesn't distill PS to make
PDFs.

If it does that at your end too, I'd guess that the built in interpreter is in
this case a Mis-interpreter; it's screwing up and giving you a black image.
That'd explain why the built=in Mac PDFs are coming out black (they use the
preview image) and the Distilled ones are not (they use the PS and interpret it
correctly).

If some of this doesn't make sense, stop me. I'm bouncing past some of the
basis pretty quickly here. ;-)

Same thing when saved as version 8. I uploaded it to
http://homepage.mac.com/tlmurray/filechute/Imports_blackcs8.zip

================================================
Steve Rindsberg, PPT MVP
PPT FAQ: www.pptfaq.com
PPTools: www.pptools.com
================================================

 

[Tim Murray]

One thing you might try that'll help nail down what's going on:

If you can, export an EPS of a simple color drawing, but make sure it has
a pure b/w TIFF preview image, not a color one.

I can email you a simple EPS like this if you can't easily produce one.

They already were. But anyway, I've just completed a new set of tests. I've
saved out a color image as an EPS with 22 combinations of:
- RGB or CMYK color model
- CS2 or Illustrator 8
- BW TIFF, color TIFF, or color PICT preview
- Transparent or opaque preview
- Language level 2 or 3

and imported each into Word. Then I wrote a PS file and distilled (all were
okay) and created a Quartz PDF (looks just like what I see on the screen in
Word).

http://homepage.mac.com/tlmurray/filechute/CMYK_RGB_tests.zip

Use Insert, Picture, From File to bring it into PPT. If you get a b/w
preview, then the current EPS filter is doing the normal, expected thing:
displaying the preview IN the EPS itself.

Some combinations had no preview at all, but otherwise, BW preview = bw
image, color preview = color image.

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

I

They already were. But anyway, I've just completed a new set of tests. I've
saved out a color image as an EPS with 22 combinations of:
- RGB or CMYK color model
- CS2 or Illustrator 8
- BW TIFF, color TIFF, or color PICT preview
- Transparent or opaque preview
- Language level 2 or 3

and imported each into Word. Then I wrote a PS file and distilled (all were
okay) and created a Quartz PDF (looks just like what I see on the screen in
Word).

OK, some basics to explain that. I figure you know this stuff, but in case
somebody's watching and wondering ...

An EPS is a special form of PostScript. Most applications can't do anything
with it, and they're not really expected to ... they just read a short header
that tells them how big the graphic is, display some kind of box at that size,
then at print time, IF you're printing to a PS printer, they pass the PS inside
the EPS off to the printer as-is.

Since a plain gray box isn't really useful for doing layout, EPS can include an
optional preview image. That's what you see on screen ... IF it's acceptable
to the app importing the EPS. If the app can't understand the preview image,
it's "back to the box" .. typically a rectangle with the name of the file and a
few other bits of header info from the EPS.

Recent versions of Office apps take this a step further: if they don't
understand the preview or think they can do it better, they interpret the
PostScript and produce their own preview image. Pretty cool when it works.

I think you've run into a situation where it doesn't, so you're getting bad
previews.

I mentioned printing to a PS printer ... since a NON-PS printer can't do
anything with the PostScript inside an EPS, when an app works out that it's
printing to non-PS, it sends the preview image instead of the PS.

If the preview image is bad, so's the printout.

Mac's native PDF is, effectively, a non-PS printer, so you get bad PDFs when
you see bad previews on screen, where PS sent to Distiller works as you'd want
it to.

I'm hoping someone from MS will pop up here and grab your tests; with luck,
this'll get fixed in the next update.

http://homepage.mac.com/tlmurray/filechute/CMYK_RGB_tests.zip


Some combinations had no preview at all, but otherwise, BW preview = bw
image, color preview = color image.

================================================
Steve Rindsberg, PPT MVP
PPT FAQ: www.pptfaq.com
PPTools: www.pptools.com
================================================