MS Office -- About to be a nightmare -- AGAIN??!

[@Goddess]

MS Office -- About to be a nightmare -- AGAIN??!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have been reading that at least some, if not all, MS Office
documents created in the new version 2007 WILL NOT be able to be
opened and/or modified in previous versions of Office prior to 2003.

ARE YOU KIDDING?!!!! Are we back to this AGAIN???

Years ago there were huge compatibility problems every time MS
upgraded a version of something. It was an IT nightmare.

They finally got rid of that problem. NOW THEY ARE REINTRODUCING
IT?!!!

I am now in a small company that has mostly Windows 98 machines. We
have some custom, mission critical software that cannot run on
anything past Windows 98.

The version of MS office on these machines is the one before 2003 (is
it 2002? ... not sure).

Everything works great on these machines. There are no issues. We
CAN'T upgrade to XP or Vista because our critical software won't work
on it.

So now I am going to get a bunch of ticked off users coming to me
saying they can't open the documents they get because they were
created in the new version of Office?

URRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I understand that MS wants to FORCE people to abandon Windows 98 since
that's the only way they have to hype their new stuff and get enough
sales for it. And this is one of the obnoxious ways they have to be
sure that those that are satisfied with a previous OS will be forced
to scrap it anyway. I'm willing to pay them their extortion if it
would get things to work.

But what the heck is a company like ours supposed to do.

The Office version we need won't run on 98, and our other software
won't run on anything else. I am so furious there are no words.

 

[Kelly Cobean]

Settle down.

There is a conversion program that you can add to your existing Office XP
and Office 2003 Office Applications that will open 2007 documents. If you
are using Office 2000 or earlier, you are out of luck.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...70-3AE9-4AEE-8F43-C6BB74CD1466&displaylang=en

The "Nightmare" you refer to is a change of file format that is a HUGE
improvement over previous .doc , .ppt and .xls files. File size is reduced
on the order of 50 to 90 % and an industry standard xml file format is used.

I can appreciate your legacy problem, but you can not realistically expect
Microsoft to permit such "boat anchor" software to retard improvements for
the vast majority of users.

 

[@Goddess]

OK thank you for the information. I will try that converter and hope
my users don't go ballistic.

But I must add that it might be a "boat anchor" to you and Microsoft,
but to us it is an IT problem that could potentially cost us enough
money that we could have to close our doors.

If we have to have our custom software redeveloped, it would be far
more costly than we can afford. We would have to shut down and fire
all of our employees. And there is NO NEED for that from our point of
view. Unlike Microsoft, our budget is NOT unlimited!

I find the term "boat anchor" used this way to be indicative of the
insensitivity MS shows to its customers.

This is a potentially devastating problem to a small non-profit
company like ours.

 

[@Goddess]

Looks like this won't help us.

"Supported Operating Systems: Windows 2000 Service Pack 4; Windows
Server 2003; Windows XP Service Pack 1"

We have Office XP on Windows 98. We cannot upgrade to anything else
because our custom mission critical software will not operate.

 

[David R. Norton MVP]

OK thank you for the information. I will try that converter and
hope my users don't go ballistic.

But I must add that it might be a "boat anchor" to you and
Microsoft, but to us it is an IT problem that could potentially
cost us enough money that we could have to close our doors.

If we have to have our custom software redeveloped, it would be
far more costly than we can afford. We would have to shut down
and fire all of our employees. And there is NO NEED for that from
our point of view. Unlike Microsoft, our budget is NOT unlimited!

I find the term "boat anchor" used this way to be indicative of
the insensitivity MS shows to its customers.

This is a potentially devastating problem to a small non-profit
company like ours.

There's a very easy workaround. You can save documents created with
Office 2007 in the older format and there's a setting available that
will make the older format the default. Now all you need do is to
either remember to save in the older format or set it as default for
Office 2007 users and the problem is solved.

Here's how (thanks to Bob Buckland): "In Office Button=>Options section
of the core (ribboned) apps you can set a default save format in the
'Save' options area. This also limits the feature set available when
you start a new document."

 

[@Goddess]

Thanks for that, I already assumed this could be done. But this
solution is not good for us.

Our users receive many attachments via e-mail from hundreds of outside
parties. It is not possible for us to ask each of them to convert
them before they send them to us, modify them here, then send them
back to many others asking each of them to reconvert them to 2007 when
they receive them back.

We tried that method years ago when MS used to change format with
every new version. It was an incredible nightmare, embarrassed the
heck out of us, sometimes didn't work properly and was far too
cumbersome.

That works fine if you only do it occasionally on internal documents.
But for everyday use when you are exchanging documents with many
people outside of your organization, our experience has shown that it
is not practical.

It is the experiences of the past WITH EXACTLY THIS PROBLEM that left
me dumbfounded that MS would return to this unworkable situation. I
cannot believe it is deja vu all over again!

 

[Bob Buckland ?:-\)]

Hi Goddess,

You haven't mentioned the app you're using, but this is the first file format change for Word in a decade (1996) with Word97,
although there have been feature set changes in the newer versions.

You are correct that it is likely not going to be seen as a reasonable request for a business to ask others to do extra work to
provide files in formats that cannot be supported in today's enviornment. It wouldn't speak well of your business, unfortunately.

The change to the new Office 2007 file formats are partly driven by the need to meet requirement of international and local
governments, partly to allow new features to be added to the MS Office product family (so that the content created in them are not a
'dated', in part to be able to send smaller files than before via email and other electronic networks, and to allow the files to be
easily modified or created programmatically or in apps other than requiring MS Office to be on every computer where those files may
be used.

Without wanting to appear critical, but rather concerned, as a small business owner and advisor, myself, my suggestion would be to
have another look at some sort of progression out of allowing your business possibilities to be controlled by the limitation of
*any* software. Often, older applications were written more compactly, tightly and tested into a fine vintage than many of today's
windows based packages, sad to say, and while I prefer a number of 'older things' to use for myself and have clients that are in
similar situations, it often is resolved that the lower cost path is to move forward at some point, often in parallel scenarios, or
a piece at a time.

As a short term project, you may want to investigate having a newer computer that works as your email portal and that could be setup
to do the document conversions on receipt and then distribute the results or have them available on the network. That will allow
you to continue to use your business software on other computers as needed. If you have not already done so, you may also want to
investigate the ability to use 'Virtual Machine' software on a newer computer or compatability mode of newer version of Windows
where they could run programs as if they were running in Win 98. After that you may want to look at the software you're tied to
see, what would you change to make the business process it's accomplishing even better, and you may be surprised to find that there
could be other software available that would allow you to accomplish much of that in other ways.

Windows 98 (which is one of the ones I still use and still like better than some of the newer ones <g>), was more susceptible to
problems with security than the newer versions and as it's no longer supported by not only MS but newer drivers, software updates
and more by an increasing number of vendors, may be putting your business at risks, as well. Unless your business software writes
directly to hardware devices rather than using what Windows terms 'services' to go to printers, etc, then the software may be
portable in some form to a newer version of Windows. (Heck there are things I can still work out better on paper and scratch paper
or in columnar tabs or graph paper than I can on a computer <g>, but that doesn't often help with collaboration).

MS, and other suppliers, aren't likely to move back, and likely neither will customers. There may be possibilities here that you
hvae not yet had a chance to investigate. Hopefully, in the end your business will grow and be even more prosperous
==================
Thanks for that, I already assumed this could be done. But this
solution is not good for us.

Our users receive many attachments via e-mail from hundreds of outside
parties. It is not possible for us to ask each of them to convert
them before they send them to us, modify them here, then send them
back to many others asking each of them to reconvert them to 2007 when
they receive them back.

We tried that method years ago when MS used to change format with
every new version. It was an incredible nightmare, embarrassed the
heck out of us, sometimes didn't work properly and was far too
cumbersome.

That works fine if you only do it occasionally on internal documents.
But for everyday use when you are exchanging documents with many
people outside of your organization, our experience has shown that it
is not practical.

It is the experiences of the past WITH EXACTLY THIS PROBLEM that left
me dumbfounded that MS would return to this unworkable situation. I
cannot believe it is deja vu all over again! >>
--

Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*

 

[Kelly Cobean]

Have you tried running your legacy application in "Legacy Mode" on one of
the newer operating systems such as Windows XP. That may solve the problem
with your mission critical application and allow you to move forward with
more recent applications at the same time.

Your situation is certainly not unique. Remember Y2K and accounting and
database applications!!

 

[@Goddess]

You are right, of course, about not becoming dependant on potentially
obsoletable software. But that is a compromise we sometimes have to
make here.

Problem here is that we have two strikes against us. We are a very
small staff of people already doing MORE than what other organizations
in our industry do with at least twice the number of people. We have
virtually NO resources for systems. I have done everything here
myself, from web site to network setup and maintenance to everything
that needs to be done on every device from desktops to laptops to cell
phones to blackberrys to actually having written almost all of the
software the organization uses. I've done EVERYTHING for 11 years.

Here is the kicker. I am also the CFO. That alone is a full time
job. When I took my job I replaced both the systems person AND the
head finance guy. And since then business and product offerings have
probably tripled.

The REAL problem is that the organization has only survived because I
have been willing to put in this kind of effort for all these years.
Replacing me would most likely take at least 2 people and the
compensation they would have to pay is unaffordable.

So your points are correct, but I think this is the real issue (that
you had no way to know).

For me personally, I don't want this place to fail after all I have
put into it. So I am working on a deal for us to merge with a larger
organization where they can have access to the resources they need
without having to count on me. But that is a year or two away and
this problem is looming right now. I'm going to have to solve it.
UGGGGG.

The second strike against us is that we are a not-for- profit. Like
most non-profits, we just don't have access to the resources we need.
Over the past 5 or six years the trend has been such that we have to
compete in a market that forces us to operate no differently than any
for profit would. We have to be every bit as competitive, every bit
as aggressive, every bit as productive and have a quality product that
is every bit as good. We've been remarkably successful so far, but,
without tooting my own horn, it depends too much on me to make it
that way. So that's our problem.

I appreciate your input, and the input of the others in this thread.

This isn't by far the biggest problem we have had to face here with
systems. It's just one of the more annoying ones because it isn't
something we have any control over, and is going to force a huge
change and expenditure for a barely perceptable gain.

I'm sure we will solve it. It just ticks me off royally.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[@Goddess]

A question.

I notice that you can still find Windows 98 for sale from what seems
to be legitimate sources.

Is this coming from MS? Does MS still sell Windows 98 to anyone who
wants it?

Following this reasoning...will Windows XP (pro) still be available
for sale after Vista comes out into the foreseeable future?

Will MS continue to allow people to buy XP well after Vista is
available? (for weeks? months? years?)

And are there conditions, such as you already have to have XP licenses
in order to buy XP?

Say you buy a machine that has Vista because the vendor will not sell
you one with XP. Will you be able to buy XP to install on that
machine instead if you don't want Vista?

 

[Tom Willett]

No, MS is not selling Windows 98. It's out of lifecycle and they don't
support it any more.

If you review the lifecycle policies at MS, you'll find out all about WinXP
support, which will be around a while.

|A question.
|
| I notice that you can still find Windows 98 for sale from what seems
| to be legitimate sources.
|
| Is this coming from MS? Does MS still sell Windows 98 to anyone who
| wants it?
|
| Following this reasoning...will Windows XP (pro) still be available
| for sale after Vista comes out into the foreseeable future?
|
| Will MS continue to allow people to buy XP well after Vista is
| available? (for weeks? months? years?)
|
| And are there conditions, such as you already have to have XP licenses
| in order to buy XP?
|
| Say you buy a machine that has Vista because the vendor will not sell
| you one with XP. Will you be able to buy XP to install on that
| machine instead if you don't want Vista?
|
| On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 10:19:10 -0500, "@Goddess"
|
| >MS Office -- About to be a nightmare -- AGAIN??!
| >
|

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

| >
| >I have been reading that at least some, if not all, MS Office
| >documents created in the new version 2007 WILL NOT be able to be
| >opened and/or modified in previous versions of Office prior to 2003.
| >
| >ARE YOU KIDDING?!!!! Are we back to this AGAIN???
| >
| >Years ago there were huge compatibility problems every time MS
| >upgraded a version of something. It was an IT nightmare.
| >
| >They finally got rid of that problem. NOW THEY ARE REINTRODUCING
| >IT?!!!
| >
| >I am now in a small company that has mostly Windows 98 machines. We
| >have some custom, mission critical software that cannot run on
| >anything past Windows 98.
| >
| >The version of MS office on these machines is the one before 2003 (is
| >it 2002? ... not sure).
| >
| >Everything works great on these machines. There are no issues. We
| >CAN'T upgrade to XP or Vista because our critical software won't work
| >on it.
| >
| >So now I am going to get a bunch of ticked off users coming to me
| >saying they can't open the documents they get because they were
| >created in the new version of Office?
| >
| >URRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| >
| >I understand that MS wants to FORCE people to abandon Windows 98 since
| >that's the only way they have to hype their new stuff and get enough
| >sales for it. And this is one of the obnoxious ways they have to be
| >sure that those that are satisfied with a previous OS will be forced
| >to scrap it anyway. I'm willing to pay them their extortion if it
| >would get things to work.
| >
| >But what the heck is a company like ours supposed to do.
| >
| >The Office version we need won't run on 98, and our other software
| >won't run on anything else. I am so furious there are no words.

 

[David R. Norton MVP]

If you review the lifecycle policies at MS, you'll find out all
about WinXP support, which will be around a while.

Link:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx

 

[@Goddess]

Thanks
I once read about MS support for XP after Vista. I think they will
support it (if you already own it) for up to 7 years, something like
that.

But I have not seen anything about whether or not you will be able to
buy it, to install on new or existing machines, and if so, what
restrictions there might be on buying it.

 

[Tom Willett]

Until XP is out of lifecycle, you'll be able to by it somewhere.

| Thanks
| I once read about MS support for XP after Vista. I think they will
| support it (if you already own it) for up to 7 years, something like
| that.
|
| But I have not seen anything about whether or not you will be able to
| buy it, to install on new or existing machines, and if so, what
| restrictions there might be on buying it.
|
| On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:26:20 -0600, "Tom Willett"
|
| >No, MS is not selling Windows 98. It's out of lifecycle and they don't
| >support it any more.
| >
| >If you review the lifecycle policies at MS, you'll find out all about
WinXP
| >support, which will be around a while.
| >
| >| >|A question.
| >|
| >| I notice that you can still find Windows 98 for sale from what seems
| >| to be legitimate sources.
| >|
| >| Is this coming from MS? Does MS still sell Windows 98 to anyone who
| >| wants it?
| >|
| >| Following this reasoning...will Windows XP (pro) still be available
| >| for sale after Vista comes out into the foreseeable future?
| >|
| >| Will MS continue to allow people to buy XP well after Vista is
| >| available? (for weeks? months? years?)
| >|
| >| And are there conditions, such as you already have to have XP licenses
| >| in order to buy XP?
| >|
| >| Say you buy a machine that has Vista because the vendor will not sell
| >| you one with XP. Will you be able to buy XP to install on that
| >| machine instead if you don't want Vista?
| >|
| >| On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 10:19:10 -0500, "@Goddess"
| >|
| >| >MS Office -- About to be a nightmare -- AGAIN??!
| >| >
| >|
| >

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

| >| >
| >| >I have been reading that at least some, if not all, MS Office
| >| >documents created in the new version 2007 WILL NOT be able to be
| >| >opened and/or modified in previous versions of Office prior to 2003.
| >| >
| >| >ARE YOU KIDDING?!!!! Are we back to this AGAIN???
| >| >
| >| >Years ago there were huge compatibility problems every time MS
| >| >upgraded a version of something. It was an IT nightmare.
| >| >
| >| >They finally got rid of that problem. NOW THEY ARE REINTRODUCING
| >| >IT?!!!
| >| >
| >| >I am now in a small company that has mostly Windows 98 machines. We
| >| >have some custom, mission critical software that cannot run on
| >| >anything past Windows 98.
| >| >
| >| >The version of MS office on these machines is the one before 2003 (is
| >| >it 2002? ... not sure).
| >| >
| >| >Everything works great on these machines. There are no issues. We
| >| >CAN'T upgrade to XP or Vista because our critical software won't work
| >| >on it.
| >| >
| >| >So now I am going to get a bunch of ticked off users coming to me
| >| >saying they can't open the documents they get because they were
| >| >created in the new version of Office?
| >| >
| >| >URRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| >| >
| >| >I understand that MS wants to FORCE people to abandon Windows 98 since
| >| >that's the only way they have to hype their new stuff and get enough
| >| >sales for it. And this is one of the obnoxious ways they have to be
| >| >sure that those that are satisfied with a previous OS will be forced
| >| >to scrap it anyway. I'm willing to pay them their extortion if it
| >| >would get things to work.
| >| >
| >| >But what the heck is a company like ours supposed to do.
| >| >
| >| >The Office version we need won't run on 98, and our other software
| >| >won't run on anything else. I am so furious there are no words.
| >

 

[Dan Marinø]

In data Tue, 26 Dec 2006 10:19:10 -0500, @Goddess ha scritto:

MS Office
documents created in the new version 2007 WILL NOT be able to be
opened and/or modified in previous versions of Office prior to 2003.

please, this happens with 90% of commercial software. the newest file
formats cannot be read by older releases. or you can save in a "compatible"
file format where the latest features cannot be saved.

if you create a smartart object in excel 2007, how can you think to open it
in excel 2003? and for this reason, should software producer stop to
introduce new features?

d.

 

[@Goddess]

Yes.

All versions of a file should be backward compatible.

If new features are added in a newer format, those new features would
not be expected to be available when a file is opened in an older
version, but the file should still be able to be viewed (at a minimum)
in an older version.

 

[Ron P]

As a stop-gap measure, you might want to take a look at OpenOffice at
http://www.openoffice.org/

 

[Dan Marinø]

In data Wed, 27 Dec 2006 09:35:16 -0500, @Goddess ha scritto:

Yes.

All versions of a file should be backward compatible.

uhm

if you create a .swf with features of flash 8, you'll need player v8.0 to
see it. you'll not see it "truncated".

if you create a excel 2007 file with 1.000 columns and 300.000 rows, what
can excel 2003 do with it? you want to see the first 256 columns and 65.535
rows?

if you create a powerpoint presentation with smartart inside 10 slides, you
really think it'll be useful to see it with some blank slide?

what are the softwares you use that are future-compatible?

i do prefer to have a "non readable" message than to see and use a document
that is different from its actual behavior. and please: i do prefer too to
have applications that, by aging, release after release, acquire some new
feature! don't you?

c ya
d.