MS Project 2003 Demo

[Jason]

I see on the MS Project website that there is a demo version of 2003 available, but that it must be mail ordered. Does anyone know where this demo might be downloaded instead? Wouldn't you think that the largest software company would offer something other than snail mail?...especially when Primavera has demos available for download.

 

[JackD]

I see on the MS Project website that there is a demo version of 2003

available, but that it must be mail ordered. Does anyone know where this
demo might be downloaded instead? Wouldn't you think that the largest
software company would offer something other than snail mail?...especially
when Primavera has demos available for download.

You would think so, but at a few hundred megabytes for a download and 90-95%
of the market for scheduling software that would be a lot of downloads.

Are you certain that Primavera has trial version downloads? I only see
presentations and documentation, not trial versions.
One also needs to consider that P3 cost is a number of times higher than
that of project.

-Jack

 

[Steve House]

It's rather large to download. I don't know what the demo for Primavera
contains but the Project demo is actually the full retail version of
Project Standard. It has all the functionality of the full product but
times out after the evaluation period expires.

--
Steve House
MS Project MVP
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

I see on the MS Project website that there is a demo version of 2003

available, but that it must be mail ordered. Does anyone know where
this demo might be downloaded instead? Wouldn't you think that the
largest software company would offer something other than snail
mail?...especially when Primavera has demos available for download.

 

[Arthur]

Primavera's SureTrak Project Manager is available as a "working model"
download. No functional limitations or timestamp, but a limit to the number
of activities. Primavera's much more sophisticated (compared with either
SureTrak or MS-P) "high-end" solutions do not have either downloads or demo
CDs.

 

[Jason]

No, P3 does not have a demo version available for download...however, it is not the comparable product to MS-P (as you stated). SureTrak is more of a direct comparison to MS-P

Looks as though Microsoft did not do as thorough of a job as Primavera in defining what was necessary for a demo product. Doesn't it make more sense to have a non-expiring demo, but with a limited number of tasks? This way many could share and evaluate the product, without the temptation to actually use it to plan a real project

Steve: Would you rather spend 1-2 hours downloading a demo, or wait 5-10 days for a CD in the mail?? Especially with the number of people who have broadband access at home, work, or both

I guess my point is that Microsoft needs to learn how to discover what the customers' real needs are....not just what MS 'believes' they are. I have been an MS product user since the days that Office was purchased on 28 3.5" floppies, and would like to continue to be so....but not if their over-confidence in themselves causes them to loose sight of customer needs/wants

----- Arthur wrote: ----

Primavera's SureTrak Project Manager is available as a "working model
download. No functional limitations or timestamp, but a limit to the numbe
of activities. Primavera's much more sophisticated (compared with eithe
SureTrak or MS-P) "high-end" solutions do not have either downloads or dem
CDs

 

[Arthur]

Just in case a clarification is needed: When I referred to "high end" I
wasn't referring to P3. P3 has been replaced by newer products. And the
only download is the "mid-range" SureTrak.

No, P3 does not have a demo version available for download...however, it

is not the comparable product to MS-P (as you stated). SureTrak is more of
a direct comparison to MS-P.

Looks as though Microsoft did not do as thorough of a job as Primavera in

defining what was necessary for a demo product. Doesn't it make more sense
to have a non-expiring demo, but with a limited number of tasks? This way
many could share and evaluate the product, without the temptation to
actually use it to plan a real project.

Steve: Would you rather spend 1-2 hours downloading a demo, or wait 5-10

days for a CD in the mail?? Especially with the number of people who have
broadband access at home, work, or both.

I guess my point is that Microsoft needs to learn how to discover what the

customers' real needs are....not just what MS 'believes' they are. I have
been an MS product user since the days that Office was purchased on 28 3.5"
floppies, and would like to continue to be so....but not if their
over-confidence in themselves causes them to loose sight of customer
needs/wants.

 

[Jason]

P3 has not been replaced...in fact, it has 2 versions available. SureTrak is extremely close in functionality to MSP...which must make MSP "mid-range" also.

I actually have no preference to either software yet...I am just trying to make a decision based on the functionality of each. However, I do believe that MS asking for $8 to send a demo CD that couldn't have cost them more than $0.50 is a little rediculous.

I came to this message board seeking the guidance/knowledge of some professionals...obviously, it is not presently available.

----- Arthur wrote: -----

Just in case a clarification is needed: When I referred to "high end" I
wasn't referring to P3. P3 has been replaced by newer products. And the
only download is the "mid-range" SureTrak.

No, P3 does not have a demo version available for download...however, it

is not the comparable product to MS-P (as you stated). SureTrak is more of
a direct comparison to MS-P.defining what was necessary for a demo product. Doesn't it make more sense
to have a non-expiring demo, but with a limited number of tasks? This way
many could share and evaluate the product, without the temptation to
actually use it to plan a real project.days for a CD in the mail?? Especially with the number of people who have
broadband access at home, work, or both.customers' real needs are....not just what MS 'believes' they are. I have
been an MS product user since the days that Office was purchased on 28 3.5"
floppies, and would like to continue to be so....but not if their
over-confidence in themselves causes them to loose sight of customer
needs/wants.

----- Arthur wrote: -----
Primavera's SureTrak Project Manager is available as a "working

model"
download. No functional limitations or timestamp, but a limit to the number
of activities. Primavera's much more sophisticated (compared with either
SureTrak or MS-P) "high-end" solutions do not have either downloads or demo
CDs.

 

[Mike Glen]

Hi Jason,

You came to this message board asking if it was possible to download Project
2003 Demo. The advice and guidance of some professionals is "no". What
more do you want?

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

 

[Jason]

Mike-

I actually never got a "no" answer. It started with a few replies saying how infeasible a download would be b/c of the size...and then it turned into some type of 'cat-fight' about how there is no way that Primavera could be offering ANYTHING that would be more customer-focused than Microsoft. There are a lot of close-minded 'professionals' out there.

I see there are a lot of MS MVPs on this message board. I would think that they would be able to have some type of input with MS to let them know what customers' needs/wants are. If all the MVPs do is log in and answer 'yes' or 'no', then what is the point? I can understand that with the simple yes/no questions...but at what point should there be information feedback to MS?



----- Mike Glen wrote: -----

Hi Jason,

You came to this message board asking if it was possible to download Project
2003 Demo. The advice and guidance of some professionals is "no". What
more do you want?

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

 

[Mike Glen]

Interesting point, Jason. You should be aware that the MVPs are volunteers
who give their time freely to answer posts on the newsgroups and are not
employees of Microsoft. Indeed we value our independence so that we don't
have to follow any line that Microsoft wants to push. I think the problem
here is that the Project MVPs in general are just Project users and not
necessarily users of other project management packages - there's no reason
why we should. Answers thus in the majority of cases reflect that this is
a newsgroup provided by Microsoft for Microsoft Project users. MVPs do have
input into Microsoft in an informal way as and when a need arises, but it is
not for us to push Microsoft to meet the needs of individuals who post in
the newsgroup (although my memory is not that good, I cannot recall many, if
any, posts asking for a downloadable CD). We will certainly react to
frequently posted problems in the form of bugs if we believe Microsoft
doesn't know about the problem or we think they should do something - but
don't rely on us to push individual problems. You have just as much right
as we do to contact Microsoft and put your wishes forward - have you done
so? - they can't react unless they are made aware of the wishes of its
users.

In spite of that, you should be aware that this newsgroup also hosts general
project management issues, and that's probably why some of this thread goes
beyond Miscrsoft Project in particular.

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

 

[Steve House]

Perhaps MS considers sending time-limited evaluation copies to be more
effective marketing that stripped down limited-functionality model
products. Perhaps it's just personal preference - I'd rather work with
the full for-real product for limited period of time than just see what
is effectively a slide show of how they hope the product will perform in
my environment. As to waiting time for CD to arrive, given the price
and organizational implications of rolling out MS Project, I'm not going
to be making spur-of-the-moment decisions anyway so the time difference
in acquisitions time between a download and snail-mail is not going to
impact my decision cycle to any extent at all. What does NOT make any
sense to me is that MS had the same "one CD - one CPU" activation scheme
on the evaluation disk that they do on the regular product. It seems
counter-productive - that as a marketing tool they'd *want* you to order
an eval disk and install it on as many desktops in your company that you
can. Couldn't get better free advertising than to get the eval into as
many hands as possible and get them used to using it. Then when it
times-out in a few months there's bound to be a groundswell of demand to
purchase it.

No, P3 does not have a demo version available for download...however,

it is not the comparable product to MS-P (as you stated). SureTrak is
more of a direct comparison to MS-P.

Looks as though Microsoft did not do as thorough of a job as Primavera

in defining what was necessary for a demo product. Doesn't it make more
sense to have a non-expiring demo, but with a limited number of tasks?
This way many could share and evaluate the product, without the
temptation to actually use it to plan a real project.

Steve: Would you rather spend 1-2 hours downloading a demo, or wait

5-10 days for a CD in the mail?? Especially with the number of people
who have broadband access at home, work, or both.

I guess my point is that Microsoft needs to learn how to discover what

the customers' real needs are....not just what MS 'believes' they are.
I have been an MS product user since the days that Office was purchased
on 28 3.5" floppies, and would like to continue to be so....but not if
their over-confidence in themselves causes them to loose sight of
customer needs/wants.

 

[JackD]

I actually never got a "no" answer. It started with a few replies

saying how infeasible a download would be b/c of the size...and >then it
turned into some type of 'cat-fight' about how there is no way that
Primavera could be offering ANYTHING that would be

more customer-focused than Microsoft. There are a lot of close-minded

'professionals' out there.

Actually you supplied the answer to the download question yourself. Most
people were responding to the part where you said "wouldn't you think the
largest..."
And I think you got some decent answers on why that would be the case. How
does this equate to be close-minded?
I'm completely schedule tool agnostic. I've used a dozen different tools and
they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

I see there are a lot of MS MVPs on this message board. I would

think that they would be able to have some type of input with MS to let them
know what customers' needs/wants are. If all the MVPs do is log in and
answer 'yes' or 'no', then what is the point?

Depends what the question is. You just stated you were looking for a yes/no
answer so shouldn't that be sufficient and to the point?
Sometimes people want more. MVPs also offer long answers as well to some
other questions. The point of MVPs is that people can ask a question and get
some help. I'm not going to track bugs or take customer complaints for
Microsoft. They don't pay me enough and I'm not interested. They have
legions of people studying what customer needs and wants are. If they are
incompetent then why would they listen to me anyway?

I can understand that with the simple yes/no questions...but at what point

should there be information feedback to MS?

Go for it. Send it to microsoft. Complain. Call them. Just don't ask me to
do it for you. That is not something I want to spend time on. It is not much
fun.

-Jack

 

[Gary Johnson]

Hi All,

As a Project professional that has used many different versions of PM
software products I think that there is a fundamental flaw in some of the
arguments being put forward in this thread. In particular Microsoft Project
2003 is way, way more sophisticated than Sure Trak and offers a wealth of
features simply not found in Sure Trak.

If you compare the Project Pro/Project server model with Primavera then the
MS offering is a very attarctive solution for many corporates requiring a
true EPM solution. Of course if you a building a Space Shuttle then P3 may
be the tool of choice BUT consider the increased cost of P3 compared to MS
EPM, both in terms of purchase and implementation costs. In addition the
learning curve on P3 is very steep and long, and the product is really
designed for those people who are planning all day, every day (you de-skill
pretty quickly if you don't use it all the time). Unlike MSP whcih is
designed for the more modern PM who does not want to spend all their time in
front of a screen.

Its just my view - but I do know a number of companies that have migrated
from P3 to MSP or MSP EPM very successfully.

Regards

Gary

 

[Jason]

Thanks for the extra info Gary. However, it all points back to the fact that I would like to have an easier method of evaluating MSP 2003, in order to see these new *upgrades*. That would let me see: 1) If either of the 2003 versions would do what we need; & 2) If so, then which of these versions is better suited to our needs....especially considering the price difference between the std & pro

Also, I am currently using MSP 2000, so it is the only thing I can compare to Primavera's offerings

----- Gary Johnson wrote: ----

Hi All

As a Project professional that has used many different versions of P
software products I think that there is a fundamental flaw in some of th
arguments being put forward in this thread. In particular Microsoft Projec
2003 is way, way more sophisticated than Sure Trak and offers a wealth o
features simply not found in Sure Trak

If you compare the Project Pro/Project server model with Primavera then th
MS offering is a very attarctive solution for many corporates requiring
true EPM solution. Of course if you a building a Space Shuttle then P3 ma
be the tool of choice BUT consider the increased cost of P3 compared to M
EPM, both in terms of purchase and implementation costs. In addition th
learning curve on P3 is very steep and long, and the product is reall
designed for those people who are planning all day, every day (you de-skil
pretty quickly if you don't use it all the time). Unlike MSP whcih i
designed for the more modern PM who does not want to spend all their time i
front of a screen

Its just my view - but I do know a number of companies that have migrate
from P3 to MSP or MSP EPM very successfully

Regard

Gar

 

[Rob Schneider]

Jason,

This still an issue? From the date of this first posting, 28/1 until
now, 9/2, a demo disk could have been ordered and perhaps arrived and
installed and in evaluation by now?

rms

 

[JackD]

Jason,

This still an issue? From the date of this first posting, 28/1 until
now, 9/2, a demo disk could have been ordered and perhaps arrived and
installed and in evaluation by now?

rms

Knowing the microsoft demos it could be expired already!

-Jack

 

[Rob Schneider]

Excellent point! Silly me! They are good fund, though, trying to figure
out just how they protect them so that they won't even go back onto a
re-formatted disk... (or perhaps that is that an urban legend).

rms

 

[Rob Schneider]

Excellent point! Silly me!

They are good fun, though, trying to figure out just how they protect
them so that they won't even go back onto a re-formatted disk... (or
perhaps that is that an urban legend).

rms

 

[JackD]

Excellent point! Silly me!

They are good fun, though, trying to figure out just how they protect
them so that they won't even go back onto a re-formatted disk... (or
perhaps that is that an urban legend).

rms

I thought we debunked this legend.

-Jack

 

[Arthur]

Jason, I'd have replied privately to you instead of my post here, except
that you have made a statement that other readers in this forum might accept
as correct.

So as a (I hope) final clarification, what I meant when I said that P3 has
been "replaced", was that for a long time now it has been common knowledge
that aside from Service Packs (to enable it to run under newer OPs) it has
reached the end of its development. Although that doesn't mean that current
users are left without support, nor does it mean that there is not an
upgrade path (to one of the newer programs) for P3 users who have current
maintenance. And BTW, there is only one version of P3, the current version
3.1. If you are referring to P3e/c, then that is the (shortened) name of
one of the suites whose main program (Project Manager) is one of those
upgrade options. P3e/c is one if those newer Primavera developments, which
while being a "comfortable" upgrade for P3 users, are built on a new
platform and use technology of which P3 (despite its reputation and
acceptance) could not take advantage.

P3 has not been replaced...in fact, it has 2 versions available. SureTrak

is extremely close in functionality to MSP...which must make MSP "mid-range"
also.

I actually have no preference to either software yet...I am just trying to

make a decision based on the functionality of each. However, I do believe
that MS asking for $8 to send a demo CD that couldn't have cost them more
than $0.50 is a little rediculous.

I came to this message board seeking the guidance/knowledge of some

professionals...obviously, it is not presently available.

----- Arthur wrote: -----

Just in case a clarification is needed: When I referred to "high end" I
wasn't referring to P3. P3 has been replaced by newer products. And the
only download is the "mid-range" SureTrak.

No, P3 does not have a demo version available for

download...however, it
is not the comparable product to MS-P (as you stated). SureTrak is more of
a direct comparison to MS-P. Primavera in
defining what was necessary for a demo product. Doesn't it make more sense
to have a non-expiring demo, but with a limited number of tasks? This way
many could share and evaluate the product, without the temptation to
actually use it to plan a real project. wait 5-10
days for a CD in the mail?? Especially with the number of people who have
broadband access at home, work, or both. what the
customers' real needs are....not just what MS 'believes' they are. I have
been an MS product user since the days that Office was purchased on 28 3.5"
floppies, and would like to continue to be so....but not if their
over-confidence in themselves causes them to loose sight of customer
needs/wants. "working

model"
download. No functional limitations or timestamp, but a limit

to the
number

of activities. Primavera's much more sophisticated (compared

with

either
SureTrak or MS-P) "high-end" solutions do not have either

downloads
or demo

CDs.