MS Word 2008's "List Number" Style. 2 ?s

[Norm]

I was modifying this built-in style in Word 2008.

Two questions:

1. Since this is a List Paragraph Style is it linked to a List Style? I
thought all List Paragraph Styles must have a List Style.

2. If I use this List Paragraph Style for several lists within the same
document with intervening paragraphs. Is it easy to get it to restart
the numbering at "1"?

Thank you.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

List Number style is an ordinary paragraph style.

It is not linked to a List Style unless you do that manually.

By default, List Number is associated with a single-level List Template (not
a List Style). So by default it will restart only if you restart it using
the right-click method.

If you define it as a member of a List Style, and you define Normal as the
Level 1, it will then restart automatically.

So you have a choice of which method you want to use.

Do a little experimenting, and choose the method you like best for your
circumstances.

Cheers

I was modifying this built-in style in Word 2008.

Two questions:

1. Since this is a List Paragraph Style is it linked to a List Style? I
thought all List Paragraph Styles must have a List Style.

2. If I use this List Paragraph Style for several lists within the same
document with intervening paragraphs. Is it easy to get it to restart
the numbering at "1"?

Thank you.

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

List Number style is an ordinary paragraph style.

It is not linked to a List Style unless you do that manually.

Thanks for that info.

So MS's built-in one level paragraphs are not List Paragraph Styles
linked to List Styles?

If so, are any of MS's built-in styles either one or multilevel List
Paragraph Styles with List Styles?

MS is keeping me guessing.

Thanks.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

None of the built-in styles are defined into any List Styles, it's up to the
user to do that "bending" themselves.

Cheers

Thanks for that info.

So MS's built-in one level paragraphs are not List Paragraph Styles
linked to List Styles?

If so, are any of MS's built-in styles either one or multilevel List
Paragraph Styles with List Styles?

MS is keeping me guessing.

Thanks.

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

None of the built-in styles are defined into any List Styles, it's up to the
user to do that "bending" themselves.

Then, is it possible to use the built-in styles (like List Number) with
a List Style that I create? Or do I need to create my own list paragraph
styles and list styles?


Separately, I did not find any built-in multi-level styles other than
the Headings. Are there any there that one can "bend" or must one define
multi-level from scratch both the list style and the list paragraph
style?

Thanks much.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

We have already covered this

This is YOUR copy of Word, you can do anything you like with it.

If you want to define the built-in styles into List Styles, you can. I do.
If you want to use other styles, you can.

Always remember that document creation is a combination of art, science, and
engineering. The relative proportions of those disciplines that you use in
any given document is up to you.

Many users use none of those disciplines to create documents. They just sit
there muddling away. It takes them ten times as long to create a document
doing that, and you would rather not have to work on one they have created.
But you can do it.

My recommendation, as always, is "Use the built-in styles as much as
possible, and customise them to do what you want."

I sense that you are wanting us to send you a "list" of the built in styles,
how they are formatted, and what you must use them for. We cannot do that:
as previously discussed, the built-in styles are all empty until you put
something in them, and you "can" use them for anything you like.

The names are intended to suggest the kinds of paragraphs that you might use
those styles for. But there is no rule or requirement to do that. Your
work will be faster and easier if you have a reason for every choice you
make: but it needs to be your reason, and Word doesn't care what that reason
is.

Cheers

Then, is it possible to use the built-in styles (like List Number) with
a List Style that I create? Or do I need to create my own list paragraph
styles and list styles?


Separately, I did not find any built-in multi-level styles other than
the Headings. Are there any there that one can "bend" or must one define
multi-level from scratch both the list style and the list paragraph
style?

Thanks much.

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

If you want to define the built-in styles into List Styles, you can. I do.
If you want to use other styles, you can.

OK. Thanks. Thought it would be easier to Bend.

My recommendation, as always, is "Use the built-in styles as much as
possible, and customise them to do what you want."

Will do.

But I began to think that since all the built-in "List Number styles"
did not "need" a list style that they had to stay that way. Thanks for
the clarification

I sense that you are wanting us to send you a "list" of the built in styles,
how they are formatted, and what you must use them for.

You misread me .... one of the many problems of email/posts.

I learn from doing and I like the challenge. But I don't want to reload
Word 2008 too many times..... I probably think it is more "fragile" than
it is.

We cannot do that:
as previously discussed, the built-in styles are all empty until you put
something in them, and you "can" use them for anything you like.

You keep saying empty. But all my styles have definitions in them. So
what do you mean by empty?

And as such I was looking for a multi-level style to Bend.

Thanks much,

Norm

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

I learn from doing and I like the challenge. But I don't want to reload
Word 2008 too many times..... I probably think it is more "fragile" than
it is.

Then DON'T reload it It has almost zero effect on a Mac, in any case.

Everything you are doing is changing the Normal template or the document you
are working on. If you do not like the result, delete them and start again.

Cheers

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Then DON'T reload it It has almost zero effect on a Mac, in any case.

Everything you are doing is changing the Normal template or the document you
are working on. If you do not like the result, delete them and start again.

Got it. Thanks.

I did do it once, earlier this week, both the clean up any of my goofs
plus I read that MS Office "likes" to be housed in /Applications and I
usually, and did for word, install any apps I purchase in
/Applications/My Apps. So wanted to change that to their recommended
location.

I'll now leave as is.

Thanks for the time saver.

 

[John McGhie]

Yep: Good decision.

Rule "1" of modern computing: DON'T change the install location unless you
have a very good reason to do so.

This would apply to all applications on a multi-user (modern) computer, no
matter who made them. In Windows, you MUST NOT move an application once it
is installed (or you break it...). Mac is not like that, but if you put
stuff in unexpected places, you get a series of "little surprises".

There are still cowboy coders (basically: "incompetents") out there that
code things with explicit locations, instead of asking the OS nicely to tell
them where the stuff they want is. Microsoft has yet to atone for the
behaviour of the first version of the Office 2008 installer...

They can cause no end of grief and strangeness's.

Leave everything where the installer drops it, for a long and happy life.

There are folks out there who insist on creating multiple bootable clones of
their systems. I can tell you from a succession of late nights -- in which
my thoughts became bitter and language unprintable -- that this strategy
guarantees "high entertainment value". Provided you are "watching" it: the
only enjoyment comes if you practice it as a "spectator" sport...

Cheers

Got it. Thanks.

I did do it once, earlier this week, both the clean up any of my goofs
plus I read that MS Office "likes" to be housed in /Applications and I
usually, and did for word, install any apps I purchase in
/Applications/My Apps. So wanted to change that to their recommended
location.

I'll now leave as is.

Thanks for the time saver.

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Leave everything where the installer drops it, for a long and happy life.

For many years, I had/have installed my download or purchased apps in a
subfolder of Applications in order to organize when upgrading, etc.

Hasn't caused any problems but given the warnings, such as yours here,
I'm now moving all those apps directly into Applications and adding a
label for easy identification.

There are folks out there who insist on creating multiple bootable clones of
their systems. I can tell you from a succession of late nights -- in which
my thoughts became bitter and language unprintable -- that this strategy
guarantees "high entertainment value". Provided you are "watching" it: the
only enjoyment comes if you practice it as a "spectator" sport...

Hmmm.... you confused me with the above.

I always have a bootable clone, as well as multiple backups (yes, just a
little conservative), as part of my backup strategy. Works for me so I
don't follow the negative of having bootable clones.

I actually have 3 bootable clones: current (undated daily), month old
off site, and a two month old on site which is on deck to use next (the
hard drive is next up in backup rotation). Aren't you glad you asked....
not! Just think of the dissertation if you had.

Thanks,

Norm

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

Hasn't caused any problems but given the warnings, such as yours here,
I'm now moving all those apps directly into Applications and adding a
label for easy identification.

What do you mean "Adding a Label"? If that's a file in the folder, no
problem. If you have changed the name of the file: guaranteed excitement.

Simplifying outrageously, there are two ways to find a file on a Mac OS
disk: by "name" or by "number". If the Application does the right thing and
queries the Launch Services Database, it will be handed a number, which will
locate the file no matter where it is.

If the application is searching by "name" it means "the fully-qualified path
name". For example: "/Applications/Microsoft Office 2008/Office/Document
Elements/Document Elements.dotx"

Change one character (even the capitalisation...) anywhere in that string
and you won't get the file.

I always have a bootable clone, as well as multiple backups (yes, just a
little conservative), as part of my backup strategy. Works for me so I
don't follow the negative of having bootable clones.

No problems: I am the Spectator now, I will just get a hot dog and a beer


Given the meticulousness with which you work, I suspect there will never be
a problem. The entertainment begins when you attempt to "mix'n'match" by
restoring, for example, pref files from one bootable clone to another.
Provided the clone is used intact, the system will cope.

Cheers

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

snip

What do you mean "Adding a Label"? If that's a file in the folder, no
problem. If you have changed the name of the file: guaranteed excitement.

Sorry. Poor shorthand on my part. I will just add the Finder's color
label to the same apps that I would have filed in a sub-folder. I like
to know at a glance what I've installed vs. what "Apple" has installed.

snip

No problems: I am the Spectator now, I will just get a hot dog and a beer

Enjoy them, get out the easy chair.... tis amusement time and "I told
you so" time.

But..... I hold to what you say next:

Given the meticulousness with which you work, I suspect there will never be
a problem. The entertainment begins when you attempt to "mix'n'match" by
restoring, for example, pref files from one bootable clone to another.
Provided the clone is used intact, the system will cope.

I hope it does "when" (not "if" as the saying goes) my hard drive fails.

And the only pref files I'd add would be from more recent backups after
the last clone.

Thanks,

Norm

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

And the only pref files I'd add would be from more recent backups after
the last clone.

My suggestion: Don't add ANY preference files, EVER. On the Mac, the rules
are that each application will generate preference files when it launches if
they are not found.

If they ARE found, the application will try to use them. Various things
such as file paths and hardware parameters WILL be wrong, and will likely
cause instability.

The software modules themselves are not system-specific, they never change
except during updates, and are only ever read. The preference files connect
the software with our specific hardware: they update constantly, and are
read and written every day (or more often).

If you copy Pref Files from one volume to another, the best that will happen
is that you will confuse the application. In Microsoft Office's case, you
can end up with crashes, hangs, and very strange dysfunctional behaviour.

Hope this helps

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Hope this helps

Thanks for those backup/restore tips re: preference files.

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

My recommendation, as always, is "Use the built-in styles as much as
possible, and customise them to do what you want."

Are the styles at the very top of the list of All Styles (1/1.1/1.1.1
and 1/a/i and Article/Section) ones that you would use if you were
creating a non-TOC multi-level List Style?

And if so, then one could use 2 or more of the List Number styles as the
linked List Paragraph Styles?

I've already set-up a multi-level List Style and two List Paragraph
Styles linked to it because I did not realize these 3 styles may be
options to customize. But in re-reading some of your posts and your
strong endorsement of customizing the built-in styles, I returned to
these to create my multi-level list style which I use frequently.

Thanks.

PS BTW, whenever (almost every time) that I highlight one of those three
List Styles, I think it is the Article/Section one, Word crashes with
the dialog asking if OK to report to Microsoft. That does not encourage
me to modify any of those 3 List Styles.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

I have had problems with those three styles myself.

In Word 2007, they seem to be applied to the Heading series by default, if
you specify Heading Numbering.

I have not had time to investigate to see what is really going on.

I suspect I might not use them unless I can figure out how they work.

Sorry: I know this does not answer the question

Cheers

Hi John:



Are the styles at the very top of the list of All Styles (1/1.1/1.1.1
and 1/a/i and Article/Section) ones that you would use if you were
creating a non-TOC multi-level List Style?

And if so, then one could use 2 or more of the List Number styles as the
linked List Paragraph Styles?

I've already set-up a multi-level List Style and two List Paragraph
Styles linked to it because I did not realize these 3 styles may be
options to customize. But in re-reading some of your posts and your
strong endorsement of customizing the built-in styles, I returned to
these to create my multi-level list style which I use frequently.

Thanks.

PS BTW, whenever (almost every time) that I highlight one of those three
List Styles, I think it is the Article/Section one, Word crashes with
the dialog asking if OK to report to Microsoft. That does not encourage
me to modify any of those 3 List Styles.

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]