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Message: [QUOTE="Karl E. Peterson, post: 6934385"] Hi Sean -- I'm still using Office 2000, as I felt that's the point they achieved "good enough!" and hadn't yet gone into their anti-customer mode. Even still, I know that they've very much gone towards using windowless controls. Very few on O2K userforms are actual windows. Sounds like even fewer are in O2k3? As for Spy++, you _really_ can't do this sort of development without a tool like that. It's simply invaluable. There are alternatives, though. Stuff like [URL]http://www.windows-spy.com/[/URL] -- get something, and quit wondering. :-) Later... Karl [/QUOTE]