Name - relative reference doesn't calculate

[Werner Rohrmoser]

Hi,

I use a mane with a relative reference to sum 3 cells to the left or
in another case
the 3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th cell to the left.
The syntax for the name is "!A1:A3" when my pointer is in A4, formula
is "=SUM(Name). I wrote it without the sheetname, because I'd like to
use it on every sheet I have in the book.
Now, when I change values in the precedent cells nothing happens until
I force a complete recalculation,
it doesn't calculate automatically, also F9 doesn't force the formula
to calculate.
Any ideas or workarrounds, especially for "3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th"
case.

Excel XP SP3
Win XP SP1


Regards
Werner

 

[Bob Phillips]

One of the big problems with using that syntax.

Why don't you write a UDF, you can add error checking easily then (when
there aren't 3 for instance)?

--
---
HTH

Bob


(there's no email, no snail mail, but somewhere should be gmail in my addy)

 

[Matt Richardson]

Hi,

I use a mane with a relative reference to sum 3 cells to the left or
in another case
the 3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th cell to the left.
The syntax for the name is "!A1:A3" when my pointer is in A4, formula
is "=SUM(Name). I wrote it without the sheetname, because I'd like to
use it on every sheet I have in the book.
Now, when I change values in the precedent cells nothing happens until
I force a complete recalculation,
it doesn't calculate automatically, also F9 doesn't force the formula
to calculate.
Any ideas or workarrounds, especially for "3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th"
case.

Excel XP SP3
Win XP SP1

Regards
Werner

Hi

Have you checked the settings for recalculation in your sheet?
Tools>Options>Calculation tab and ensure that 'Automatic' is checked.
Sorry if that's a daft question.

Regards,
Matt Richardson
http://teachr.blogspot.com

 

[Lori]

Maybe try:

=SUM(A:A Name)

which will force a reference to the activesheet and should autocalc.

 

[Niek Otten]

Sorry to bother this way Bob, but your site seems to be offline

--
Kind regards,

Niek Otten
Microsoft MVP - Excel

| One of the big problems with using that syntax.
|
| Why don't you write a UDF, you can add error checking easily then (when
| there aren't 3 for instance)?
|
| --
| ---
| HTH
|
| Bob
|
|
| (there's no email, no snail mail, but somewhere should be gmail in my addy)
|
|
|
| | > Hi,
| >
| > I use a mane with a relative reference to sum 3 cells to the left or
| > in another case
| > the 3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th cell to the left.
| > The syntax for the name is "!A1:A3" when my pointer is in A4, formula
| > is "=SUM(Name). I wrote it without the sheetname, because I'd like to
| > use it on every sheet I have in the book.
| > Now, when I change values in the precedent cells nothing happens until
| > I force a complete recalculation,
| > it doesn't calculate automatically, also F9 doesn't force the formula
| > to calculate.
| > Any ideas or workarrounds, especially for "3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th"
| > case.
| >
| > Excel XP SP3
| > Win XP SP1
| >
| >
| > Regards
| > Werner
|
|

 

[Werner Rohrmoser]

Matt,

automatic calculation is checked.

Regards
Werner

 

[Werner Rohrmoser]

Lori,

my intention is to use a general formula in order to sum 3 cells to
the left of the active cell
and this formula should work on every sheet (I need this type of
formula some hundred times on some 20 sheets).
So I have learned from John Walkenbachs Formula Book, that I have to
use a relative name like ="!A1:!C1",
when my active cell is "D1" and to write D1=SUM(Name). This type of
formula recalculates automatically.
But when I use this expression for a relative name "!A1,!C1,!
E1" (every second cell) and my active cell is "F1"
than it only recalculates when I use "Ctrl Alt F9". I know this but my
user don't know it.
This behaviour is strange and I don't understand it.

Regards
Werner

 

[Lori]

Excel uses a calculation algorithm where formulas recalculate only
when the precedent cells are changed but since no sheet reference is
given in the name, the named cells are not counted as precedents.

However if you include a specific reference to the same row or column
in the formula, then any change in that row or column should trigger a
recalc. So for your example with cells in the first row try:

=SUM(1:1 Name)

and then copy these formulas down and across sheets.

works in my tests

 

[Werner Rohrmoser]

Lori,

I've made further tests as well and your Excel calculation description
helped me to find out that there is a difference between
using a named formula with relative references and to use a named
relative range
in a formula on a worksheet.

=SUM_Something_Formula vs SUM(Something_relative_Range)

The first possibility has no precednets (checked with the detective)
but the
2nd one has precedents.
So if you test both possibilities the first one doesn't calculate and
the second one does.

This has somekind of logic in connection with the Excel calculation
behaviour.
What's your opinion?

Regards
Werner

 

[Bob Phillips]

Hi Niek,

I got an email today saying I had exceeded my monthly bandwidth, so my host
has disabled it. It must be getting popular <g>. I'll have to check out how
much I need to pay to increase it.

--
---
HTH

Bob


(there's no email, no snail mail, but somewhere should be gmail in my addy)

 

[Bob Phillips]

Build a uDF as I suggested earlier.

Function Sum3Above(rng As Range)
Application.Volatile
If rng.Cells.Count = 1 Then
If rng.Row > 1 Then Sum3Above = rng.Offset(-1, 0)
If rng.Row > 2 Then Sum3Above = Sum3Above + rng.Offset(-2, 0)
If rng.Row > 3 Then Sum3Above = Sum3Above + rng.Offset(-3, 0)
End If
End Function


And call like H12: =Sum3Above(H12)

--
---
HTH

Bob


(there's no email, no snail mail, but somewhere should be gmail in my addy)

 

[T. Valko]

Lori's suggestion works for me.

An alternative using Bob's suggestion only with worksheet functions is to
make the formula volatile:

=SUM(Name)+TODAY()-TODAY()

 

[T. Valko]

A few keystrokes shorter:

=SUM(Name)+NOW()*0

 

[Bob Phillips]

But the whole problem with it is he wanted a generic function to sum say 3
cells above, so if you have to include a superset of that range, it ceases
to be generic.

--
---
HTH

Bob


(there's no email, no snail mail, but somewhere should be gmail in my addy)

 

[Bob Phillips]

And it fails if in the example if name is defined as !A1:A3 then you put
=SUM(Name) in A2.

--
---
HTH

Bob


(there's no email, no snail mail, but somewhere should be gmail in my addy)

 

[T. Valko]

I'm assuming that Name is correctly defined and, since the OP knows what
they want, they would know not to use such a formula on row 2. Maybe I'm
assuming too much?

 

[Werner Rohrmoser]

Bob,

thanks for your comments, using a UDF is a good solution, but I have
to use some ten thousand formulas
and this would need a lot of time to calculate the book (AFAIK).

Regards
Werner

 

[Werner Rohrmoser]

Biff,

the trick seems to be to get this dammend formula calculated when the
dependent cells are changed.
Some post earlier I have mentioned that I have found out that the
calculation behaviour seems to depend
on whether Excel recognizes dependents or not.

Example 1: (Excel doesn't calculate automatically, only by pressing
"Ctrl+Alt+F9:")
Formula in cell "F1" is "=SumEveryThirdValue" and "SumEveryThirdValue"
is defined as a
named formula "=SUM(!A1,!C1,!E1)".
When you check the dependecies with the detective you get no traces on
the sheet.

Example 2: (Excel calculates automatically)
Formula in cell "F1" is "=SUM(RangeSumEveryThirdValue)" and
"RangeSumEveryThirdValue" is defined as a named range "=!A1,!C1,!E1".
When you check the dependecies with the detective you get traces on
the sheet.

So the difference between Example 1 and 2 is that in Ex 1 uses a named
formula and
Ex 2 I uses a named range, which is calculated on the worksheet and
has dependent cells
(the named range).

Question is: is it logic that Example 2 works and what about
reliabilty?

Regards
Werner

 

[Harlan Grove]

I use a mane with a relative reference to sum 3 cells to the left
or in another case the 3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th cell to the left.
The syntax for the name is "!A1:A3" when my pointer is in A4,
formula is "=SUM(Name). I wrote it without the sheetname, because
I'd like to use it on every sheet I have in the book.
Now, when I change values in the precedent cells nothing happens
until I force a complete recalculation, it doesn't calculate
automatically, also F9 doesn't force the formula to calculate.
Any ideas or workarrounds, especially for "3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th"
case.

....

If the purpose of using such names is simplicity and uniformity of
formulas in adjacent cells, the better approach would be to use
worksheet-level names. For example, in worksheet A with cell A4 active
define the name A!name (predecing the name with the worksheet name
makes it a worksheet-level name rather than a workbook-level name)
referring to A!A1:A3. Enter the formula =SUM(name) in A4 and it
returns the sum of the values in A1:A3 in worksheet A.

Then copy A!A4 and paste it into B!A4, and that formula will return
the sum of the values in A1:A3 in worksheet B *AND* it will have
created the worksheet-level name B!name in worksheet B defined in the
same way that A!name is defined in worksheet A.

The potential disadvantage is that if you want to redefine such names,
you must redefine each one on every worksheet. You could use a macro
in a different workbook to iterate through all sheets in your main
workbook making the same changes to the relevant worksheet-level names.

 

[Werner Rohrmoser]

Harlan,

I don't know whether you've red posting 17 in this thread, where I
have described my experience
with named relative ranges and named formulas with relative ranges.
I'm not sure whether Example 2 works in every case.

Anyway, I have the feeling based on the discussion in this thread that
it's better to avoid
named ranges like "=!A1,!A3,!A5" because Excel seems to have a problem
with this design (do you have the same experience?)
Using worksheet level names to get reliable recalculation along with
the benefits of simplicity and uniformity should be my choice.

Regards
Werner