Need help understanding shape/shaperange AlternativeText property

[Dave Jenkins]

I have a file that contains text in the AlternativeText property of a shape
on one if its slides. Or at least, in PPT 2007 that's what I see. However,
if I open that same file in a PPT 2003 system, the alternative text property
shows to be an empty string.

I have tried to copy the file across the network from the 2007 system to the
2003, and also opening it on the 2003 system from a mapped 2007 drive - same
results.

Last night when I was doing some testing, that property (on shapes in some
other files) was populated when I looked at it on the 2003 system. (But now
that I think about it, I noticed at the time that it contined a different
string than the one I observed in my 2007 version of the file.)

What sets that property for a given shape and why it would it appear
differently in PPT 2003 than it does in 2007?

Thanks.

 

[Dave Jenkins]

Hi Steve:

Thanks for the response.

This is becoming a very, very difficult problem to diagnose. I can run 20
tests in a row and everything works fine in the 2003 system, and then all of
a sudden it will quit working. However, I have varied, from time to time,
circumstances of how I copy the file to 2003, how I reference it, whether
I've eliminated slides, etc., so it's very hard to say with certainty what
set of circumstances causes the problem to start manifesting itself.

However, I can tell you this with certainlty: Every time the problem fails,
the alternative text that ends up associated with the shape is either an
empty string, or the words "Adobe Systems" !!! Go figure. Where *that*
comes from, I have no idea. However, I will tell you this: on the slide with
the shapes that have the strange alternative text, there is a graphic that
looks like it came from a .pdf (someplace along the line) -- it's a page from
a published article. That's about as close to Adobe Systems as I can get.

My problem now is trying to get this thing into a repeatable mode. When I
do, I start carving away slides, but when I get down to nothing but the slide
with the single shape on it, it still fails. I'm really stumped.

Thanks for listening. <sob>


Dave Jenkins
K5KX

 

[Dave Jenkins]

Ok - I think I know a lot more as to what's going on, but quite sure what to
do about it.

1. I've crippled all the add-ins that could even remotely be suspected of
interfering. (I know - never say, "never" ...)
2. If you'll go here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=f29f2e7aae0ab657ab1eab3e9fa335cabc54f76cb3e05b14

(mind the possible line breaks) you can download two small .ppt files. The
first is a slide that was downloaded from one of our other sites, untouhced
by PPT 2007. If you will look at the "TakeHome" icon shape in the debugger
in PPT 2003, you'll see (or at least I see) that the alternative text for
that shape is "". If you'll look at the other file, you'll see that the
alternative text for that shape is "TakeHome" (which is what my add-in
happens to be looking for).

The only difference between the files is that the second is the saved
version of the first, after being saving in PPT 2007. (If I do the same
exercise in PPT 2003, the alternative text doesn't change (remains "").)

One other intersting observation: Look at the huge difference in the file
sizes - what's up with that? I do see that PPT 2007 has done its normal job
of screwing up the Master when it saved that file - could that account for
the size difference, do you think?

 

[Dave Jenkins]

I used both the free layer manager in PPT2HTML and the formatting dialog, Web tab to
check this; both show the same results as you're seeing. The second file, saved from
2007, DOES have the alt text, the original doesn't.

So here's what I'm thinking from my understanding:

The original file doesn't have the Alt text that your addin adds.

Once saved from 2007, it DOES have the Alt text that your addin adds.

While not impossible, it seems WILDLY improbable that PPT or some other add-in is
adding this same Alt text string.

While not apparent, it seems reasonable to guess that your addin might be doing it.
Is that possible or no?

To the best of my knowledge, I had the add-in crippled throughout this
entire process. I may have misled you when I say my add-in was looking for
that particular string. That's only how I discovered this problem - my add-in
couldn't find it unless the file had been saved in 2007. I *think* all the
testing I reported above was done with my add-in removed, and examining the
shape using debug. I will run a more rigorous re-test today to make sure
that the add-in isn't contributing to the problem.


[snip]

Dave

 

[Dave Jenkins]

:

[snip]

While not apparent, it seems reasonable to guess that your addin might be doing it.
Is that possible or no?

Forgot to add in my earlier post: The identical add-in we're talking about
("my add-in") also runs (if not removed) on the PPT 2003 system I'm using to
test with. So if it *were* adding the text, then it seems that it should add
it in 2003, too, doesn't it?

Also forgot to ask: Were you able to reproduce the problem? That is:

1. Download the "before" file. Look at it in PPT 2003 - does it have the
alternative text?
2. Open that file in PowerPoint 2007 and resave it.
3. Now look at that file in PowerPoint 2003 - does it show the text?

Since you don't have the add-in we've been talking about installed, that
should remove it from the equation entirely. If that procedure does NOT
reprodcue the problem, then it's back to the local drawing board to see where
things are going awry.

Thanks.

[snip]

 

[Dave Jenkins]

:


[snip]

While not apparent, it seems reasonable to guess that your addin might be doing it.
Is that possible or no?

Ok. Steve, try this:

1. Open the "before" file ("... as downloaded ...") in PPT 2007, just as
you receive it from the hosting site provided earlier. Examine the
properties of that graphic. I beleive you'll see the alternative text in
question.
2. Now open that same file in PPT 2003 and examine the properties - is the
alternative text there? On my system it is not, regardless of whether my
add-ins are running on the 2003 or 2007 systems.

3. Now do this (truly amazing!): If in step 2 you don't see the alternative
text, (still in PPT 2003) save the file as a .pptx, then close and reopen
that file - ta-dah! - the text appears!

I'm smelling Compatibility Pack complicity here, but just a whiff, so far.

My head hurts.

[snip]


Dave

 

[John Wilson]

Sorry this will make your head hurt more! No matter what I do switching
between 2003 - 2007 I can't lose the Alt text.

I was suspecting picture compression in 2007 but I turned it back on and
still have the Alt text in 2003.
--
Amazing PPT Hints, Tips and Tutorials

http://www.pptalchemy.co.uk/powerpoint_hints_and_tips_tutorials.html
_______________________________

:


[snip]

While not apparent, it seems reasonable to guess that your addin might be doing it.
Is that possible or no?

Ok. Steve, try this:

1. Open the "before" file ("... as downloaded ...") in PPT 2007, just as
you receive it from the hosting site provided earlier. Examine the
properties of that graphic. I beleive you'll see the alternative text in
question.
2. Now open that same file in PPT 2003 and examine the properties - is the
alternative text there? On my system it is not, regardless of whether my
add-ins are running on the 2003 or 2007 systems.

3. Now do this (truly amazing!): If in step 2 you don't see the alternative
text, (still in PPT 2003) save the file as a .pptx, then close and reopen
that file - ta-dah! - the text appears!

I'm smelling Compatibility Pack complicity here, but just a whiff, so far.

My head hurts.

[snip]


Dave

 

[Dave Jenkins]

Hi John - Thanks for weighing in.

Let me review the bidding:

1. You downloaded the file from the hosting site named "Test Sample as
Downloaded.ppt" into a PowerPoint 2003 system
2. You examined the properties of the graphic on the slide (I select the
graphic and use debug to look at ActiveWindow.Selection). You see that the
alternative.txt field is populated? Presumably with "TakeHome?"

I have just followed those exact steps, in an Office 2003 SP3 system with no
add-ins running (that I know of - none appear in Tools -> Add-ins) and when I
first open the file, that field is unpopulated. If I modify the text
slightly, close/save the slide and then reopen it, the field is still
unpopulated. If I save the slide as a .pptx, however, close/save and then
reopen, it's now populated.

Provided we're both following essentially the same protocol, then ... what?
Any suggestions as to what I should try next? Maybe I'm not holding my mouth
right.

I should also add that this problem came to light because my add-in (which
counts on the text in the alternative.txt field) was not operating properly
on a third party's PowerPoint 2003 system, so the problem certainly isn't
local only to my PCs.

You're right - now my head *really* hurts.

Dave Jenkins
K5KX

Sorry this will make your head hurt more! No matter what I do switching
between 2003 - 2007 I can't lose the Alt text.

I was suspecting picture compression in 2007 but I turned it back on and
still have the Alt text in 2003.
--
Amazing PPT Hints, Tips and Tutorials

http://www.pptalchemy.co.uk/powerpoint_hints_and_tips_tutorials.html
_______________________________

:


[snip]

While not apparent, it seems reasonable to guess that your addin might be doing it.
Is that possible or no?

Ok. Steve, try this:

1. Open the "before" file ("... as downloaded ...") in PPT 2007, just as
you receive it from the hosting site provided earlier. Examine the
properties of that graphic. I beleive you'll see the alternative text in
question.
2. Now open that same file in PPT 2003 and examine the properties - is the
alternative text there? On my system it is not, regardless of whether my
add-ins are running on the 2003 or 2007 systems.

3. Now do this (truly amazing!): If in step 2 you don't see the alternative
text, (still in PPT 2003) save the file as a .pptx, then close and reopen
that file - ta-dah! - the text appears!

I'm smelling Compatibility Pack complicity here, but just a whiff, so far.

My head hurts.

[snip]


Dave

 

[Dave Jenkins]

Here's a related question: In researching this problem, I have been examining
various files for the occurrence of specific strings. That's not too hard in
the case of .pptx files, since it's fairly easy to find a string in the
wealth of xml files contained in the .pptx file.

Not so, in the case of .ppt file, because of the binary format.
Nevertheless, I do find that I can find text string occurrences using
PowerGrep.

As it pertains to the problem that's the subject of this original post,
though, something puzzles me: If I look through a .ppt bianry file, I'll find
string data that appears in bullets, for instance. I do *not* find string
data that occurs in shape alternative.txt fields, though. I know that text
is in the file someplace, because if I look at that field in debug, there
that string is.

If I could find where the string is in the binary file someplace, then
perhaps I could decipher the record structure at that point (but that looks
like a daunting task) to find out where I might be able to retrieve the field
using the OM.

 

[Dave Jenkins]

I'll take your post as solid evidence that I'm not nuts. (Any port in a
storm ...)

These 1000+ files come to us from literally hundreds of different speakers,
and their provenance is unknown unless we specifically quiz the speaker about
it for one reason or another. On this particular file, all we know is that
it showed up as a .ppt. AFAIK, there was no particular processing done on
the file at all. When it was received by us (as an email attachment) it was
stored in a Lotus Notes db, from whence I (and the aforementioned third party
who discovered that my add-in wasn't working) retrieved it. When I retrieved
it, I did remove about 100 extraneous slides to simplify the repro problem.
I did that by opening the file in 2003, removing the slides, and resaving. I
believe that this process circumvented the CP, since it was opened as .ppt in
2003, and saved as .ppt in 2003, and that's why alt.txt field still behaved
the same way after the slides were removed as it did before.

I really have two objectives in this excercise:

1. To undertand fully the circumstances under which this situation can arise
2. To see if there isn't some as yet hidden way to figure out what the
alternative text associated with that graphic *will* be once the file has
been saved using the compatibility pack. We know the string "TakeHome" is in
that file someplace - it *has* to be. How (from within an add-in) can we
figure out if it's there?

--
Dave Jenkins
K5KX

:

[snip]

While not apparent, it seems reasonable to guess that your addin might be doing it.
Is that possible or no?

Ok. Steve, try this:

1. Open the "before" file ("... as downloaded ...") in PPT 2007, just as
you receive it from the hosting site provided earlier. Examine the
properties of that graphic. I beleive you'll see the alternative text in
question.
Yes.

2. Now open that same file in PPT 2003 and examine the properties - is the
alternative text there? On my system it is not, regardless of whether my
add-ins are running on the 2003 or 2007 systems.

Shazam. No. It's not there in 2003.

3. Now do this (truly amazing!): If in step 2 you don't see the alternative
text, (still in PPT 2003) save the file as a .pptx, then close and reopen
that file - ta-dah! - the text appears!

Bingo. Yes, just as you describe. On the first machine I was testing with, 2003
didn't have the compat pack installed. On this other one I do.

I'm smelling Compatibility Pack complicity here, but just a whiff, so far.

So where did the first PPT come from (the As Downloaded version)?
And what processes and paths did it go down on the way to you?

FWIW, if I create a new file in PPT2007, add Alt text to a shape (via the UI, not
programmatically) and save as PPT, it shows up in 2003 (the version w/o compat pack and
the version with compat pack).



-----------------------------------------
Steve Rindsberg, PPT MVP
PPT FAQ: www.pptfaq.com
PPTools: www.pptools.com
================================================

 

[Dave Jenkins]

:

[snip]

But are the 1000+ files all behaving this way or is it just this one file?

If it's just the one, there may be no way to determine what's causing it to,
forgive the technospeak, act wacko.

Have no idea how may are this way, without running a bunch of code against
them. As of this date we're receiving about 75% .ppt.

Just learned something else that'll prove annoying:

If you meddle with a presentation in the Script Editor and return to the
presentation, you're asked if you want to update/refresh/whatever. You say yes,
of course, because you want to see the effect on the slide. You don't, of
course, want the changes to be written back to the file on disk unless you
actually SAVE the presentation.

What Script Editor are you referencing? I've seen you ention that before?


[snip]

And I have just discovered the hiding place of "TakeHome" in the binary file
(knew if was there sompelace - had to be) - it's stored as Unicode and hence
one must search for \x00540061006b .... My hope is, if I can decipher the
atom, perhaps that will show someplace else that I'll be able to access the
text, using the OM. Or is that entirely out of the realm of being reasonable?

Dave

 

[John Wilson]

You're right I can repro it. I had opened the file in 2007 first. Once it's
there though I can't lose it again.
--
Amazing PPT Hints, Tips and Tutorials

http://www.pptalchemy.co.uk/powerpoint_hints_and_tips_tutorials.html
_______________________________