No infopath forms server - what ar my options?

[xz]

We have MOSS 2007 here. And I need to create a change-management form
with some basic workflow. We have a limited # of users - about 200,
and all are on our network. Not going to see a lot of traffic from
this form... but its still critical that it render quickly on a page
(or in Office). I've already created a forms-library and defined my
fields. I even created some of the workflow. Now I'm struggling with
how users at my company are going to input the data. Not being a SP
expert, I notice a few options:

* Saving the forms-library as a template, a .DOC file is created that
shows all my fields. Cool! But there are no permissions on that .DOC
file - who can see what etc. I suppose I have to save that down to my
PC and I can try to modify it (e.g. with VBA?) to tell it how to
disable certain controls depending on who sees it.

* I can do the same thing as above, creating an Excel file from
scratch. Again, VBA, and somehow linking to the fields in the forms
library.

* Infopath? Not sure if this is even an option since we don't have
infopath forms server. And users don't have Infopath on their PC. I
love the interface... but how is it going to render.

* I have VS.NET 2008 (beta). I know ASP.NET fairly well, but am not
sure how to create forms that would submit to the forms-library and
initiate the workflow.


We sorta started down the road of Excel, but not sure if this is the
easiest option. I know I'm not as comfortable with VBA as with .NET,
but I don't see any resources out there explaining how to create
ASP.NET forms for Sharepoint... Thanks for any advice!

ZX

 

[Bryan Phillips]

How about using a list instead of a doc lib and using the build-in CRUD
functionality?

--
Bryan Phillips
MCT, MCSD, MCDBA, MCSE
Microsoft MVP - Client Application Development
Blog: http://bphillips76.spaces.live.com
Web Site: http://www.composablesystems.net

 

[xz]

Ha... ok Bryan this kinda took me by surprise. You're suggesting that
instead of killing myself pulling data out / pushing data in to SP
from an ASP.NET form or an Excel form, just do it in a SP list?

I haven't tried that before, although seems like an obvious solution.
The problem in my mind is my asumption that I won't be able to
disable / hide certain fields from users. E.g., there are 4 types of
users:

1. business guy that submits the change request
2. Manager who approves the request
3. IT person who implements it
4. someone to test it

I don't want the business guy approving the request he himself
submitted. And I don't want an IT person submitting, approving and
testing his own change either. So some basic validation here - I'm
not sure this can be put into the SP list? Thats why my initial
assumption was I have to go out of Sharepoint. Considering this, is
doing this all within a SP List still possible?

 

[Bryan Phillips]

Yes, all of that is possible with a combination of SharePoint
permissions and workflows.

You may have to use two lists instead of one though each with an
approval workflow. The first list would track submit/approval for users
1 and 2.

When the item in list 1 is approved, create a new item in list 2 and
have a workflow for the final signoff.

--
Bryan Phillips
MCT, MCSD, MCDBA, MCSE
Microsoft MVP - Client Application Development
Blog: http://bphillips76.spaces.live.com
Web Site: http://www.composablesystems.net

 

[xz]

Wow. This idea, to simply have 2 workflows and 2 lists - one for the
submitter, one for the approver, might actually be easier to maintain
because I don't need to bother with creating separate forms (in
Infopath, Exel or ASP.NET) ! I can do it all right in the Custom
list. I always assumed I had to stick with 1 WF and somehow start
hiding controls on the form - and allowing the WF to interrogate which
controls had data in them to decide what the next step would be. Are
there any minuses going down this path, vs having to write custom code
in asp.net or infopath (or Excel even) to do this. The only thing
thats gonna be a pain is having to define all my fields all over again
in a new list. I wish I could say "See that list over there? Copy
those fields - definition only - to a new list here..."

 

[Bryan Phillips]

When you get deeper into workflows, you will see that there are logical
workflows which are what the user understands and then there are
physical workflows that are the real implementation (just like database
datagrams).

The minuses are that you are giving up a little UI control (positioning,
format, etc...) in order to use a non-code solution.

There should be no pain in making the second list. Save the first list
as a list template (without content) and use the new template to create
the second list.

--
Bryan Phillips
MCT, MCSD, MCDBA, MCSE
Microsoft MVP - Client Application Development
Blog: http://bphillips76.spaces.live.com
Web Site: http://www.composablesystems.net

 

[xz]

Ok thinking about this a little more:

1. Business manager sees List-A which has only the fields he needs to
fill out an IT change request.
2. The workflow copies the List item (record) to List-B (which has
additional fields that IT needs to see - such as how the change will
be implemented, implementation dates etc).
3. IT agrees to make the change - workflow sends a cute email back to
business manager.

[At this point, the change is actually made in a test environment.
Now someone has to test it there]

3. IT enters something in the record (still in List-B) indicating the
change is ready to be tested. This sends an email off to the Business
manager telling him to test it.
4. Business manager needs to sign-off that he tested the change and
it looks good. Whoa - this is where I run into a problem.


In #4 above, I want the List item (record) to go back to the business
manager so he can sign-off that he tested the change and it looks
good. This sign-off could be simply entering in some text into an
Implementation_Test field, and saving it to the List item. But I
can't copy from List-B back to List-A cause List-A has fewer fields
(how does that work?). And if I give the business manager access to
the List-B record - then it defeats the purpose of having 2 lists
since he can modify all those other IT-related fields I didn't want
him to touch.

If you say to copy it to a third List - List-C - ok thats fine - but
I don't want all the fields copied over - just the ones that are
defined in List-C. If the fields in List-B are more than List-C, what
happens - does the workflow break or something

Thanks again!
ZX

 

[xz]

well I answered my own question when I copy to List-C only the fields
defined in List-C are copied over. Very cool.

One problem I have remaining is with all these lists (I'll need
another one presumably for rejections), I have a separate workflow for
each. Is there any way to see the entire history of the change
request?
E.g., it was requested by Joe on 11/1/07. On 11/2/07 it was approved
(different list). On 11/4/07 the change was made. On 11/5/07 the
change was tested (again different list). On 11/6/07 the change was
deemed complete (back to the previous list).
With all these lists (to get around not being able to enable / disable
or hide / unhide columns in a List dynamically thru workflow) going
around, how is it possible to get a single view of the history of the
change request.

Thanks

 

[xz]

well I answered my own question when I copy to List-C only the fields
defined in List-C are copied over. Very cool.

One problem I have remaining is with all these lists (I'll need
another one presumably for rejections), I have a separate workflow for
each. Is there any way to see the entire history of the change
request?
E.g., it was requested by Joe on 11/1/07. On 11/2/07 it was approved
(different list). On 11/4/07 the change was made. On 11/5/07 the
change was tested (again different list). On 11/6/07 the change was
deemed complete (back to the previous list).
With all these lists (to get around not being able to enable / disable
or hide / unhide columns in a List dynamically thru workflow) going
around, how is it possible to get a single view of the history of the
change request.

Thanks