Normal.dot File increases (VBA Code)

[Tito Harris]

Hi there,

When Word 2003 starts some Add-Ins that I programmed add commands to the
menubar and some custom toolbars are created. When Word ends I clean them up
(deleted).

In Word 2003 this can lead to a size increase in the normal.dot each time
word start/quits...

According to Microsoft KB: 873017 (Your Normal.dot file may increase in file
size when you quit Word 2003 if a Word-specific add-in that contains a VBA
macro is loaded when you start Word 2003) this is a known problem). Link
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;873017

My question:

Has this problem now been fixed with Office 2003 Service Pack 2 or is there
any other hotfix for this problem available?

If no, how have others dealt with this issue?

TIA and Regards from Switzerland...

tito

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

If you instead just put the menu and toolbar customizations in a global
template in Word's Startup folder, you can gain the same result without
affecting Normal.dot.

 

[Charles Kenyon]

The problem is in the Add-In, rather than in Word, itself. It should not be
making changes in normal.dot. If you have the ability to change this, you
should, as Suzanne suggested, have the changes made in a different global
template. If the changes are static, that is, they don't vary depending on
the other contents of your computer or other factors, they can just be built
into another global template once and not changed.

Otherwise, turn on the option to prompt before saving changes to normal.dot
and when prompted, say no. (This option should be on all the time anyway.)
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide


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[Tito Harris]

Hi there,

Thanks for your replies. I believe I did not explain clearly enough what is
going on....

- I have a global.dot file in the Word startup folder that contains vba
macros.
- This file is loaded when Word starts and does the following:
- Replace the File, New... command (we have our own New Dialog because
we have more than 500 templates in our company)
- Adds a menu item in the menu Insert
- replaces the New icon in the standard toolbar (see above)
- When Word quits I restore the original state of the menubar and standard
toolbar

So I am not sure what you mean when you write I should use a global template
instead of modifying the normal.dot file.

BTW... the normal.dot file increases by 5KB each time I quit Word.

Thanks for your continued help, Regards

tito

 

[Charles Kenyon]

Your global.dot should have the changes you mention done once, with the
customization context being the global template.

The changes should be in place, then, each time the template is loaded. (It
is loaded when it is in the Startup folder.)

It does not make any changes to the normal.dot file at all.

There are two reasons I know of for making changes each time you load/unload
the file using code:
(1) The changes are different each time you load the file because they take
into account outside events or variables - that is, they are dynamic
changes.
(2) You have some other Add-In that is messing with your changes after the
file is loaded and you can't figure out how to block this.

Otherwise, just make your changes once, manually or using code, and leave
them alone. I have over 15 global .dot files loaded in Word, most of which
make a particular change to the interface. They work together quite well.
None of them makes the changes using code.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide


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[Ray Hernandez]

The issue here is the use of the VBA Commandbar item, it does not matter
where the code lives as long as it is used within a global template, the bug
is within word where it automatically detects a change in the Normal.dot when
in reality none exist. The main problem that was been worked around by
programactically creating and then deleting the menu items is the abnormality
of the word logic that instead of replacing the same named instance of a
commandbar upon recreation word creatates another one and therefore it would
multiply infinitum. The issue here is that Microsoft needs to seriously
address this issue and resolve the problem. So the question to you guys up at
Microsoft is when can we expect a fix?

 

[Charles Kenyon]

Do you meet one of the two reasons I gave for making changes every time? If
not but there is another one that I missed (very possible) please illuminate
me.

I'm not aware of the bug you mention although it surprises me.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide


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[Ray Hernandez]

The reason to code the menu customizations in this matter is that they are
easier to maintain and to propagate thru the entire network. The
customization is done to words toolbar. If you were to manually make those
changes as you suggested and those changes are stored within normal.dot then
when a modification is propagated normal.dot would be replaced and any
customization by the user would be lost. We have tried several workaround
fixes and the best one that seems to resolve the issue of the ever expanding
normal.dot was to set the normal.dot already save to true, but the issue
there was that any user customizations would not be saved as well.

As to this bug surprising you, it surprised as well, Microsoft has
acknowledged it in KB873017.

As I previously mentioned the reason I believe that this VBA command is not
working properly is an Architectural issue in that if you create an object
with the same name it should overwrite a previously created object of that
same name, akin to explorer overwriting a file that you are copying with the
same name to a given folder. And therefore it would not force us to implement
the workaround of having to create and delete commandbars. The reason that,
that was a workaround was that unless you delete the created commandbar when
exiting Word, every time Word starts up and executes the global template
containing the VBA code that creates the menu items it creates a new one and
the previous one is still there as well.

 

[Charles Kenyon]

You can put your changes in some other global template (without using code
or using the code only once to create the change). Once the change is made
and you save your global, it sticks. That is, it does not need to be redone
each time. You propogate that template to go into the user's startup folder
(a separate location for each user). You change the user login script to
update your template upon login so any changes can be made in one location
and will automatically propogate each time a person logs in.

See http://addbalance.com/word/movetotemplate.htm for step-by-step
instructions on moving / sharing / copying / backing-up customizations
including AutoText, AutoCorrect, keyboard assignments, toolbars, macros,
etc.

The way you are doing this now, each time your user starts his/her computer
normal.dot is being altered. Since there are other ways that normal.dot gets
altered by the user during the course of regular use (i.e. AutoText, styles)
your changes would be saved whenever one of the user alterations is saved.
Thus the template bloat.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide


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[Ray Hernandez]

Charles,

The modification involves the Word Toolbar and not a user defined/created
Toolbar and therefore since the defs for that toolbar are been maintained in
normal.dot same problems.

I do not know how to clarify the issue of why we use coding for creating
menus and replacing built in menu commands with our own functionality other
than to say to you that things change over time and we find it a lot easier
to modify the code than to use the toolbar customization which is cumbersome
at best. Perhaps menus and toolbars that you build never change, are not part
of the Word built-in toolbars and therefore are basically static over time
and that is why that methodology works for you, but it does not work for us.

Bottom line if the functionality exists within the product it should work as
it is supposed too.

 

[Charles Kenyon]

Nope. Make your changes to the built-in menus and toolbars with the
customization context in your template. I have three or four separate
Add-Ins that all independently modify the built-in menus without any code.
You need good documentation in the Add-In in case you get conflicts.

My Add-Ins remove commands and add others, some built-in and some that are
custom commands, macros or AutoText. I know that the changes are in the
Add-ins and not in normal.dot because if I unload my Add-Ins, the menus
return to their default contents.

I generally build all of my custom commands in custom toolbars and then copy
them to the built-in menus but the changes are all saved in my templates. I
change them periodically (just made three changes to the File menu this
week, again, in my Add-In).

I am not defending Word. Word is a huge program and has major bugs; what you
are complaining about isn't major in my opinion. Especially since you have a
ready way of avoiding the problem. You do not need to be running code to
change the interface. If you insist on using code, your code could designate
your template as the customization context rather than normal.dot.

If you want to complain, the complaint department is elsewhere. I am a
fellow user who has received a lot of good help in these newsgroups and am
trying to share my experience with you. That is experience gathered from
Word 3 to Word 2003. I've used the methods I am talking about distributing
interface changes through a statewide law practice with 60 offices and
hundreds of computers with lawyers (scary) as primary users. You are
certainly welcome to continue being upset with Word and not try the methods
that have worked for me, though.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide


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[Ray Hernandez]

Charles,

Based on your last post it is obvious that Iam wasting my time here.
One, Iam not upset, two, just because you do not chose to code does not make
your methods any better or worse than using the VBA functionality. These
newsgroups are suppose to address problems that we are having and hopefully
getting meaningful help. I refer you back to KB873017 the issue is a
programming issue your solutions do not offer this specific type of solution.
And by the way chest pounding has never impressed nor intimidate me, all that
it reflect is insecurity so please keep this type of behavior to yourself it
has no place in this context.

 

[Charles Kenyon]

Again, you are making changes (unnecessarily) to normal.dot. Word is
detecting a real change that you are making.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide


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[Charles Kenyon]

Using code repeatedly to make changes to normal.dot is causing your problem.
I've told you that you can continue to use code if you feel the need. You
can even continue to run the code every time someone opens Word if it makes
you feel better. If you use code, you need to have the code store the
changes in your global template, not in normal.dot.

You can, however, get the results you want by simply making the changes once
in a global template and allowing that template to be loaded by your users.
This was originally suggested to you by Suzanne Barnhill over a month ago
and has been my basic suggestion all along. You said it won't work because
you need to change normal.dot to change the interface. This is wrong. Flat
wrong. Changes are stored in normal.dot by default; but that is often not
where you want them stored.

To me, the definition of "better method" is something that works to produce
the desired result without the undesirable consequences of another method
(even if those consequences are the result of a bug). Perhaps you have a
better definition, too.

Good luck.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide


--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
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from my ignorance and your wisdom.