Numbered list problem

[Dave Bulman]

Hi Gurus,

I have a very frustrating problem with numbered lists that I have no idea
how to solve.

I have created an indented numbered style using a), b), c) etc and this
works fine...except, when, in the same document, I need to create a another
list using the same style, the numbers continue from the previous list.

The issue it seems, is that while possible to "restart numbering" when
manually numbering a list, this option is either not available (or is hidden
away in some very obscure part of the word settings) when applying the
numbering to a style.
I can change the style manually a re-start numbering (which MVP advisors
don't recommend), but it does lead to a reversion of the continue number
form at a later opening of the document. That is if I manually set a list to
a, b, c it does not necessarily retain these numbers. I've also noticed that
it adds an unwanted tab to the style as well.
I have based this style on another style that has numbers instead of letters
but neither are supposed have a tab. Seems that it inherits the tab from
the default numbering format when I manually do a "restart numbering" in
Bullets and Numbering. 'Tis most annoying.

I'm using Office X 10.1.4

Any help might avoid chucking my computer and my thesis out the window!

Dave.

 

[Elliott Roper]

Hi Gurus,

I have a very frustrating problem with numbered lists that I have no idea
how to solve.

I have created an indented numbered style using a), b), c) etc and this
works fine...except, when, in the same document, I need to create a another
list using the same style, the numbers continue from the previous list.

It is a bit of a minefield. If you have the time and patience, read
Shauna Kelly's and John McGhie's articles on Word numbering:-

http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html
http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/Numbering/WordsNumberingExplained.htm

I found a simple workaround for restarting numbering in a particular
paragraph style, while wrestling with something similar.
Start with a dummy paragraph in the numbered style (note that it
continues the numbering and restart is greyed out in bullets and
numbering)
Create the next (first real paragraph) of the new sequence. You will
note that numbering can be restarted. Do so.
Delete the dummy paragraph.

I can't reproduce your fault at the moment -- I have since got my
numbered styles to play nicely after following Shauna's and John's
advice.

Also note that using "Bullets and Numbering" menu command to restart
numbering has been deprecated by some of the MVP gurus.

 

[Dave Bulman]

Hi Elliott,

Thanks for the suggestion. I am still little confused still though:

I found a simple workaround for restarting numbering in a particular
paragraph style, while wrestling with something similar.
Start with a dummy paragraph in the numbered style (note that it
continues the numbering and restart is greyed out in bullets and
numbering)

Follow this bit, but then:

Create the next (first real paragraph) of the new sequence. You will
note that numbering can be restarted. Do so.

Are you referring to the Format>Bullets and Numbering menu option?
If so then this is only way I have been able to restart numbers: not the
recommended method, I believe. Indeed it was this approach that I had used
only to find that the numbering had reverted to continuation of the
numbering from a previous list on re-opening a document, that led me to this
query.

If on the other hand, you are referring to the
Format>Style>ModifyŠ>Format>NumberingŠ where such numbering options should
be done, there is no ³restart numbering² available.

Delete the dummy paragraph.

I can't reproduce your fault at the moment -- I have since got my
numbered styles to play nicely after following Shauna's and John's
advice.

Also note that using "Bullets and Numbering" menu command to restart
numbering has been deprecated by some of the MVP gurus.

I will take another look at the John & Shaunas notes however ­ I may have
missed something!

Dave

 

[Elliott Roper]

Hi Elliott,

Thanks for the suggestion. I am still little confused still though:

Follow this bit, but then:


Are you referring to the Format>Bullets and Numbering menu option?
If so then this is only way I have been able to restart numbers: not the
recommended method, I believe.

Yes, and yes, so I believe too.

Indeed it was this approach that I had used
only to find that the numbering had reverted to continuation of the
numbering from a previous list on re-opening a document, that led me to this
query.

Aak! I had never had that happen to me.

If on the other hand, you are referring to the
Format>Style>ModifyŠ>Format>NumberingŠ where such numbering options should
be done, there is no ³restart numbering² available.

No there isn't. I'd be wary of playing in there in the middle of a
document. It seems to start a new list if you look at it funny.

I will take another look at the John & Shaunas notes however ­ I may have
missed something!

I carefully followed Shauna's recipe for creating and using numbered
styles. So far it has worked well, and restarting the numbering in
those styles with format and bullets has not bitten me yet.
I even recorded a macro to do that to my most frequently used numbered
style. Looking at the macro shows what scary things the restart
numbering does in bullets and numbering. It manages to convice the
innards of word which list wants its numbering restarted. (The list
number is a more closely guarded secret than the combination of the
safes in DeBeers diamond clearing house in Amsterdam. ;-) )

What is really scary is that the keystroke I assigned to it works for
restarting other numbered styles. Even though the style and list is
named in the macro.

Pure magic. I feel a bit like the sorcerer's apprentice with a bit of a
flood on my hands.

I think I might re-read John's notes too. I though I understood what
was happening. Oh dear!

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Dave:

OK, you are not going to get a "short" answer to this one. The headline is
"Do not mix number types within a document."

Here we go...

Word has two kinds of numbering: Field-based, and List-based, and a hybrid
-- ListNum numbering. We are considering List-based numbering here,
sometimes called "Auto numbering".

List numbering has two kinds: Single-level, and Outline Numbered. And a
hybrid: List Style numbered.

The bottom line is that when applied by a Style, Outline numbering will not
restart under some circumstances. For example, if you have applied Outline
Numbering that is associated with the built-in Heading series of styles, you
cannot reset the numbering. This is by design: the Heading series of styles
have some built-in properties hard-coded to make heading numbering stable
and reliable (which is why we tell people to use Word's Built-In styles for
Headings).

The List Number series of built-in styles, on the other hand, are hard-coded
with built-in properties designed to make list numbering stable and
reliable. These styles "will" restart, if they are correctly defined
(accept the defaults and they will be...)

A key to understanding this is that Outline numbering forms a single outline
and there can be only one instance of each in a document. So, for example,
if there were an outline named "Headings", there can be only one Headings
outline in the document. There may be other multi-level outlines, perhaps
one labelled "MultiLevel List", but there can be only one outline named
MultiLevel List in a document.

The usual cause of "fail to restart" or "fail to continue" or "out of
sequence numbering" in a document is that you have more than one outline in
the document. The two outlines LOOK the same, but they are different
instances of numbering. If you have some paragraphs that are members of
one, and some which are members of the other, you get very high
entertainment value but your numbering doesn't work.

On the other hand, Single Level numbering can have multiple lists in a
document (it is designed for use with the step lists you so often find in
Procedures - multiple short lists of paragraphs). So while you may have a
single List Number format, there may be multiple lists in the document that
are all members of that same list format.

Sadly, you can have multiple single-level lists in a document, each with
multiple members. All hell breaks loose.

The way to put this right (provided that your document has not corrupted) is
to first ensure that you have your numbering formats correctly defined to be
associated with styles. For Outline numbering, you need to associate a
separate style with each of the nine levels of the outline, and make sure
you do not try to associate more than one style with a level, or a style
with more than one level. For Single-Level lists, ensure that each has a
style defined for it, and that the style is defined for only one list. Word
won't actually allow you to create such circular references, but it does not
handle it gracefully if you make a mistake and try to do so.

Now, you need to go through your document, and apply Normal style to each
bad paragraph to remove the bad formatting. If the numbering does not
disappear when you do that, you have some direct-formatting numbering
applied. Remove it before continuing.

Then apply the correct style to bring the numbering back in. If you ensure
that you have the correct styles, and only the correct styles, applied, your
numbering will come right.

List Styles are not reliable, and should be used only under specific
circumstances. They are designed to provide a way to separate the
formatting from the numbering within a style. You can have nine levels of
numbering all with the SAME style. It's a horrible mechanism...

On the other hand, if you do too much customising of numbering in a
document, and particularly if you try a few things that did not quite work,
you can corrupt the list template. If you do, the damned thing ignores you
from then on.

Strewth -- this post is so disjointed. Sorry -- I am overtired and I have
left most of the information out because I don't have the energy to type it
all out for you tonight. Email me and remind me that I promised I would
explain it properly to you when I next get a chance, in a few days.

Cheers

Hi Elliott,

Thanks for the suggestion. I am still little confused still though:

Follow this bit, but then:


Are you referring to the Format>Bullets and Numbering menu option?
If so then this is only way I have been able to restart numbers: not the
recommended method, I believe. Indeed it was this approach that I had used
only to find that the numbering had reverted to continuation of the numbering
from a previous list on re-opening a document, that led me to this query.

If on the other hand, you are referring to the
Format>Style>ModifyŠ>Format>NumberingŠ where such numbering options should be
done, there is no ³restart numbering² available.


I will take another look at the John & Shaunas notes however ­ I may have
missed something!

Dave

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[Dave Bulman]

Hi John,

As always, you provide excellent and detailed explanations. However, I am
still having some trouble with what you're getting at. For example:

OK, you are not going to get a "short" answer to this one. The headline is
"Do not mix number types within a document."

I don't know exactly what you mean by mixing number types. And whether this
relevant to my original query

Here we go...

Word has two kinds of numbering: Field-based, and List-based, and a hybrid
-- ListNum numbering. We are considering List-based numbering here,
sometimes called "Auto numbering".

List numbering has two kinds: Single-level, and Outline Numbered. And a
hybrid: List Style numbered.

I think I sort of understand List and Outline numbering: the latter of which
I have now been using successfully throughout all chapters of my thesis,
having realised the importance of using outline numbering in the styles,
rather applying then from the Format>Bullets and Numbering menu.

The bottom line is that when applied by a Style, Outline numbering will not
restart under some circumstances. For example, if you have applied Outline
Numbering that is associated with the built-in Heading series of styles, you
cannot reset the numbering. This is by design: the Heading series of styles
have some built-in properties hard-coded to make heading numbering stable
and reliable (which is why we tell people to use Word's Built-In styles for
Headings).

The List Number series of built-in styles, on the other hand, are hard-coded
with built-in properties designed to make list numbering stable and
reliable. These styles "will" restart, if they are correctly defined
(accept the defaults and they will be...)

Now, this is where I have difficulties: on the basis of information in
Huggan's "Bend Word...", I was given to understand that using the default
styles, which have the Normal template as their basis, can give rise to
problems when a document is transported to another machine. I believe that
the recommendation in "bend Word..." was to replace the use of Normal
template with one's own. This I have done throughout and have few problems
as a result. But, this may give rise to instability in list numbering -
would that be true?

A key to understanding this is that Outline numbering forms a single outline
and there can be only one instance of each in a document. So, for example,
if there were an outline named "Headings", there can be only one Headings
outline in the document. There may be other multi-level outlines, perhaps
one labelled "MultiLevel List", but there can be only one outline named
MultiLevel List in a document.

The usual cause of "fail to restart" or "fail to continue" or "out of
sequence numbering" in a document is that you have more than one outline in
the document. The two outlines LOOK the same, but they are different
instances of numbering. If you have some paragraphs that are members of
one, and some which are members of the other, you get very high
entertainment value but your numbering doesn't work.

Am I misunderstanding your use of the term "outline"? I thought that
outline was the list of headings (to which one applies heading styles) that
preface each text section of a document, ie
1. Heading 1
1.1 Heading 2
1.1.1 Heading 3, etc
is an outline with outline numbering and heading styles.
If that is the case, I have trouble figuring out that a document can have
more than one outline. Moreover, it is not this that I am having trouble
with ­ it was a query specifically about numbered lists.

On the other hand, Single Level numbering can have multiple lists in a
document (it is designed for use with the step lists you so often find in
Procedures - multiple short lists of paragraphs). So while you may have a
single List Number format, there may be multiple lists in the document that
are all members of that same list format.

Sadly, you can have multiple single-level lists in a document, each with
multiple members. All hell breaks loose.

This is probably wherein my troubles lie. As I stated in my original query,
A numbered list like:
a) item number one
b) item number two,
c) and on
Will continue with numbering from the previous list after the addition of
some intervening text as:
d) item one in new list
e) an etc.
What I have done in the past is use the Format>Bullets and Numbering option
to reset these to a) and b) because there is no restart numbering option in
the numbering option on the style definition.

The way to put this right (provided that your document has not corrupted) is
to first ensure that you have your numbering formats correctly defined to be
associated with styles. For Outline numbering, you need to associate a
separate style with each of the nine levels of the outline, and make sure
you do not try to associate more than one style with a level, or a style
with more than one level. For Single-Level lists, ensure that each has a
style defined for it, and that the style is defined for only one list. Word
won't actually allow you to create such circular references, but it does not
handle it gracefully if you make a mistake and try to do so.

I think that this is what I had done. But I maybe again misunderstanding
what you mean by single-level lists. Are the two lists I've illustrated
above, to which the same personally defined style has been applied,
constitute a single-level list?
Perhaps you are suggesting that I define a new style, but with exactly the
same settings (maybe based entirely on the first but with just a new name),
for the second list, and a new one for each subsequent list in any one
document?

Now, you need to go through your document, and apply Normal style to each
bad paragraph to remove the bad formatting. If the numbering does not
disappear when you do that, you have some direct-formatting numbering
applied. Remove it before continuing.

Then apply the correct style to bring the numbering back in. If you ensure
that you have the correct styles, and only the correct styles, applied, your
numbering will come right.

Do you mean by "correct styles" those built into word, or my personally
defined or modified styles?

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Dave:

I¹ve hit this late at night again... I promise I will send you a better
answer, hopefully tomorrow...

I don't know exactly what you mean by mixing number types. And whether this
relevant to my original query

Most problems are caused by two list template styles that look the same, but
one is an Outline List, the other is a Single-Level list; or you have two
different lists that look the same.

Now, this is where I have difficulties: on the basis of information in
Huggan's "Bend Word...", I was given to understand that using the default
styles, which have the Normal template as their basis, can give rise to
problems when a document is transported to another machine. I believe that the
recommendation in "bend Word..." was to replace the use of Normal template
with one's own. This I have done throughout and have few problems as a
result. But, this may give rise to instability in list numbering - would that
be true?

You must NEVER attach a template with "Automatically update Style on Open"
set to ON if you are using numbering. If Automatically update is on, your
numbering will be extremely unstable. If it is OFF, a document makes no
further reference to the template once it is created and it does not matter
which styles or numbering you use.

Am I misunderstanding your use of the term "outline"? I thought that outline
was the list of headings (to which one applies heading styles) that preface
each text section of a document, ie
1. Heading 1
1.1 Heading 2
1.1.1 Heading 3, etc
is an outline with outline numbering and heading styles.
If that is the case, I have trouble figuring out that a document can have more
than one outline. Moreover, it is not this that I am having trouble with ­ it
was a query specifically about numbered lists.

1 List Bullet
a. List Bullet 2
i. List Bullet 3...

Etc. Any numbering that has multiple levels. You can have as many Outline
List Templates in a document as you wish, but only one instance of each
Outline List Template. So you could potentially have 200 Outline List
Templates, all looking exactly the same, but with different list formatting.
However, if your Outline List Template is correctly attached to styles as
per Shauna Kelly's examples, then only one of those List Templates can be
active in paragraphs to which those styles have been correctly applied.

This is probably wherein my troubles lie. As I stated in my original query, A
numbered list like:
a) item number one
b) item number two,
c) and on
Will continue with numbering from the previous list after the addition of some
intervening text as:
d) item one in new list
e) an etc.
What I have done in the past is use the Format>Bullets and Numbering option to
reset these to a) and b) because there is no restart numbering option in the
numbering option on the style definition.

Yep. That's the "Single List, Multiple Restart" method. See here:
http://www.word.mvps.org/faqs/numbering/ListRestartMethods.htm

I think that this is what I had done. But I maybe again misunderstanding what
you mean by single-level lists. Are the two lists I've illustrated above, to
which the same personally defined style has been applied, constitute a
single-level list?

I can't answer that. If you click in one of the paragraphs and go to
Format>Bullets and Numbering, the section that is highlighted will tell you
whether you are either in a Numbered List or an Outline List. Don't make
any changes in there: you will bugger your numbering, just use it to look.
To change, you must go ion through Format>Style>Modify>Format>Numbering...

Perhaps you are suggesting that I define a new style, but with exactly the
same settings (maybe based entirely on the first but with just a new name),
for the second list, and a new one for each subsequent list in any one
document?

No. Use the same style. If you do, the list should automatically restart
if there is an intervening paragraph with a different style.

Do you mean by "correct styles" those built into word, or my personally
defined or modified styles?

"Correct" as in "The style applied to this kind of list in the rest of the
document."

I strongly recommend using Word's built-in styles for numbering, because the
built-in styles, particularly the Heading styles, contain extra properties
to support Outline Numbering. Those properties are hard-coded in those
styles so they cannot go wrong. But you can use any styles.

Ping me tomorrow and make sure I give you a proper answer...


--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[Klaus Linke]

Hi Dave,

I have never seen (reproducible) problems with the restart button in "Format > Numbering", if you just use it on the paragraph you want to restart.
In Word2000, there were issues if you selected several paragraphs and then applied the restart.
IIRC, Word then sometimes applied a new, different list template. For the moment, that looked fine. But if you later moved paragraphs around, they would not renumber properly because they were numbered with different list templates.
Not sure if that bug has been fixed in Word2002/2003.

I can't access http://www.word.mvps.org/faqs/numbering/ListRestartFromUI.htm right now. Given the warning you cited, I'm curious what that's about ;-)

If you don't trust the UI method, you could write a macro as explained in http://www.word.mvps.org/faqs/numbering/ListRestartFromVBA.htm

Or use another one of the methods listed by Margaret Aldis

Regards,
Klaus

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Sorry Dave:

Maybe I was a bit too cryptic. I needed you to read that stuff in detail.
I know what your problem is, but it's difficult to describe without a lot of
background.

1) All numbering is applied with list templates
2) The numbering in your list is applied with the kind of list template
that will not restart.
3) To cure the problem, you need to change the kind of list template
applied to one that "will" restart.

I tend to ignore the whole problem. This is what I use:

Sub RestartNumber()
With Selection.Paragraphs
If .Item(1).Range.ListFormat.ListTemplate Is Nothing Then End
With .Item(1).Range.ListFormat
.ApplyListTemplate .ListTemplate, False
End With
End With
End Sub

Sub ContinueNumber()
With Selection.Paragraphs
If .Item(1).Range.ListFormat.ListTemplate Is Nothing Then End
With .Item(1).Range.ListFormat
.ApplyListTemplate .ListTemplate, True
End With
End With
End Sub

Pope those macros into your Normal template and assign them to your
right-click menu. You will never have the problem again. PLEASE don't ask
me to explain how they work, the explanation would fill a dictionary

Cheers

Hi John,

Somehow this discussion seems to have gotten out of hand. We seem to have
gotten onto Outline Lists and Numbering,
Automatically updating styles, etc etc. None of these I have issues with.

Maybe we should start again with the original question:

I have a numbered list like:

a) item number one,
b) item number two,
c) and so on

I have some intervening text in my usual body text style.
Now I wish to create a new list, but it continues with numbering
from the previous list after the addition of this
intervening text as follows:

d) item one in new list,
e) and etc.

My question is, given that there is no option to use the ³Restart numbering²
from within the styles settings (ie Format>Style>Modify>Format>NumberingŠ) and
that using the Format>Bullets and Numbering seems to frowned upon, as per the
quote below taken directly from the MVP link you gave me;
http://www.word.mvps.org/faqs/numbering/ListRestartMethods.htm

³ Warning: Avoid using the Format > Bullets and Numbering dialog to
restart list numbering (and its equivalent, the ListGalleries collection, in
VBA code). Accessing list templates via the list galleries has been
implicated in building up extra list templates in documents, changing list
template names, and losing links between list templates and styles. ³

what steps are needed to get the second list (and I suppose any subsequent
list with that same style) to restart at Œa)¹ ?

Please let me know if the question is not that clear.

Regards, Dave

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[Dave Bulman]

Hi John and other respondents,

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I understand where the problem resides
and how to deal with same.

My apologies to John for maybe sounding a little short: I was kind of
desperate to find a fix so that I could finalise my thesis for submission. I
guess, from your perspective, what would not have been known was that I had
to hand all the background info from "Bend Word...", your "Word's numbering
explained", Sharna's references plus other reference material from the MVPS
website. So I had adopted many of the suggestions therein during the early
stages of writing my thesis. It was just that I could not iron out the list
numbering bug that appeared to revisit me even after I thought I had it
tamed! Earlier drafts of the chapter in question appeared to be behaving
properly with each opening, but then it reverted to its old behaviour of
continuing the numbering at a time when I was trying to make final edits.
I will keep a copy of the macro that you've suggested for future
application.

Isn't it all good fun? NOT!

Regards, Dave

PS: My Thesis has passed muster.

 

[Clive Huggan]

Hello Dave,

I've been lurking on this thread, given that the maestros have been helping
you.

I use automatic numbering when necessary, though when there is an option not
to I avoid it to keep away from document corruption traumas. I have so far
felt that it's a topic best kept out of "Bend Word to Your Will". Your
experience reinforces that decision!

Good news on your thesis, though ;-)

Just a thought: did your document go to someone else before it misbehaved?
Other people's Normal styles can screw up automatic numbering (which is why
it's always recommended that numbering styles not be based on Normal).

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
============

 

[Dave Bulman]

Hi Clive,

I think that you are correct about the use of automatic numbering. But my
heading outlines were set up with numbering in the styles. These, of course,
can be restarted if needed by modifying the style - an option not available
to list numbering

Your question about having someone else load it on their machine the answer
is no. Yes, I am aware of the issues of other people's Normal.dot templates
(it is a bone of contention with me whenever I have to share documents where
I work!). But I did do some work on my thesis at my workplace on a PC (I
use a Mac at home), under Win XP & word 97. However to minimise problems I
loaded a copy of my thesis template that contained all of my customised
styles into that machine. I have avoided using the Normal.dot template
altogether - it is not even referenced (ie used as the basis for) in any of
the styles I used in my template.

Regards,

Dave

Huggan at (e-mail address removed) wrote on 11/4/05 12:39
PM:

Hello Dave,

I've been lurking on this thread, given that the maestros have been helping
you.

I use automatic numbering when necessary, though when there is an option not
to I avoid it to keep away from document corruption traumas. I have so far
felt that it's a topic best kept out of "Bend Word to Your Will". Your
experience reinforces that decision!

Good news on your thesis, though ;-)

Just a thought: did your document go to someone else before it misbehaved?
Other people's Normal styles can screw up automatic numbering (which is why
it's always recommended that numbering styles not be based on Normal).

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
============

Hi John and other respondents,

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I understand where the problem resides
and how to deal with same.

My apologies to John for maybe sounding a little short: I was kind of
desperate to find a fix so that I could finalise my thesis for submission. I
guess, from your perspective, what would not have been known was that I had
to hand all the background info from "Bend Word...", your "Word's numbering
explained", Sharna's references plus other reference material from the MVPS
website. So I had adopted many of the suggestions therein during the early
stages of writing my thesis. It was just that I could not iron out the list
numbering bug that appeared to revisit me even after I thought I had it
tamed! Earlier drafts of the chapter in question appeared to be behaving
properly with each opening, but then it reverted to its old behaviour of
continuing the numbering at a time when I was trying to make final edits.
I will keep a copy of the macro that you've suggested for future
application.

Isn't it all good fun? NOT!

Regards, Dave

PS: My Thesis has passed muster.

Macintosh] at (e-mail address removed) wrote on 10/4/05 2:22 PM:

Sorry Dave:

Maybe I was a bit too cryptic. I needed you to read that stuff in detail.
I know what your problem is, but it's difficult to describe without a lot of
background.

1) All numbering is applied with list templates
2) The numbering in your list is applied with the kind of list template
that will not restart.
3) To cure the problem, you need to change the kind of list template
applied to one that "will" restart.

I tend to ignore the whole problem. This is what I use:

Sub RestartNumber()
With Selection.Paragraphs
If .Item(1).Range.ListFormat.ListTemplate Is Nothing Then End
With .Item(1).Range.ListFormat
.ApplyListTemplate .ListTemplate, False
End With
End With
End Sub

Sub ContinueNumber()
With Selection.Paragraphs
If .Item(1).Range.ListFormat.ListTemplate Is Nothing Then End
With .Item(1).Range.ListFormat
.ApplyListTemplate .ListTemplate, True
End With
End With
End Sub

Pope those macros into your Normal template and assign them to your
right-click menu. You will never have the problem again. PLEASE don't ask
me to explain how they work, the explanation would fill a dictionary

Cheers


On 29/3/05 15:50, in article BE6F29CE.F6FCE%[email protected], "Dave

Hi John,

Somehow this discussion seems to have gotten out of hand. We seem to have
gotten onto Outline Lists and Numbering,
Automatically updating styles, etc etc. None of these I have issues with.

Maybe we should start again with the original question:

I have a numbered list like:

a) item number one,
b) item number two,
c) and so on

I have some intervening text in my usual body text style.
Now I wish to create a new list, but it continues with numbering
from the previous list after the addition of this
intervening text as follows:

d) item one in new list,
e) and etc.

My question is, given that there is no option to use the ³Restart
numbering²
from within the styles settings (ie Format>Style>Modify>Format>NumberingŠ)
and
that using the Format>Bullets and Numbering seems to frowned upon, as per
the
quote below taken directly from the MVP link you gave me;

http://www.word.mvps.org/faqs/numbering/ListRestartMethods.htm

³ Warning: Avoid using the Format > Bullets and Numbering dialog to
restart list numbering (and its equivalent, the ListGalleries collection,
in
VBA code). Accessing list templates via the list galleries has been
implicated in building up extra list templates in documents, changing list
template names, and losing links between list templates and styles. ³

what steps are needed to get the second list (and I suppose any subsequent
list with that same style) to restart at Œa)¹ ?

Please let me know if the question is not that clear.

Regards, Dave

 

[Clive Huggan]

Thanks, Dave -- it's great to have feedback like yours, since it opens up
our eyes to how other people are working! And for someone with your
expertise, using your own templates is the way to go. That's when we should
be glad that Word is so configurable! (But coaxing people to go down that
path is difficult.)

[I have a feeling in my bones that John McGhie, 200 km up the road, is going
to chip in here, with some supplementary observations. Depends on what sort
of day he's had ...] ;-)

Cheers,
Clive
=====

Hi Clive,

I think that you are correct about the use of automatic numbering. But my
heading outlines were set up with numbering in the styles. These, of course,
can be restarted if needed by modifying the style - an option not available
to list numbering

Your question about having someone else load it on their machine the answer
is no. Yes, I am aware of the issues of other people's Normal.dot templates
(it is a bone of contention with me whenever I have to share documents where
I work!). But I did do some work on my thesis at my workplace on a PC (I
use a Mac at home), under Win XP & word 97. However to minimise problems I
loaded a copy of my thesis template that contained all of my customised
styles into that machine. I have avoided using the Normal.dot template
altogether - it is not even referenced (ie used as the basis for) in any of
the styles I used in my template.

Regards,

Dave

Huggan at (e-mail address removed) wrote on 11/4/05 12:39
PM:

Hello Dave,

I've been lurking on this thread, given that the maestros have been helping
you.

I use automatic numbering when necessary, though when there is an option not
to I avoid it to keep away from document corruption traumas. I have so far
felt that it's a topic best kept out of "Bend Word to Your Will". Your
experience reinforces that decision!

Good news on your thesis, though ;-)

Just a thought: did your document go to someone else before it misbehaved?
Other people's Normal styles can screw up automatic numbering (which is why
it's always recommended that numbering styles not be based on Normal).

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
============

Hi John and other respondents,

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I understand where the problem resides
and how to deal with same.

My apologies to John for maybe sounding a little short: I was kind of
desperate to find a fix so that I could finalise my thesis for submission. I
guess, from your perspective, what would not have been known was that I had
to hand all the background info from "Bend Word...", your "Word's numbering
explained", Sharna's references plus other reference material from the MVPS
website. So I had adopted many of the suggestions therein during the early
stages of writing my thesis. It was just that I could not iron out the list
numbering bug that appeared to revisit me even after I thought I had it
tamed! Earlier drafts of the chapter in question appeared to be behaving
properly with each opening, but then it reverted to its old behaviour of
continuing the numbering at a time when I was trying to make final edits.
I will keep a copy of the macro that you've suggested for future
application.

Isn't it all good fun? NOT!

Regards, Dave

PS: My Thesis has passed muster.

Macintosh] at (e-mail address removed) wrote on 10/4/05 2:22 PM:

Sorry Dave:

Maybe I was a bit too cryptic. I needed you to read that stuff in detail.
I know what your problem is, but it's difficult to describe without a lot
of
background.

1) All numbering is applied with list templates
2) The numbering in your list is applied with the kind of list template
that will not restart.
3) To cure the problem, you need to change the kind of list template
applied to one that "will" restart.

I tend to ignore the whole problem. This is what I use:

Sub RestartNumber()
With Selection.Paragraphs
If .Item(1).Range.ListFormat.ListTemplate Is Nothing Then End
With .Item(1).Range.ListFormat
.ApplyListTemplate .ListTemplate, False
End With
End With
End Sub

Sub ContinueNumber()
With Selection.Paragraphs
If .Item(1).Range.ListFormat.ListTemplate Is Nothing Then End
With .Item(1).Range.ListFormat
.ApplyListTemplate .ListTemplate, True
End With
End With
End Sub

Pope those macros into your Normal template and assign them to your
right-click menu. You will never have the problem again. PLEASE don't ask
me to explain how they work, the explanation would fill a dictionary

Cheers


On 29/3/05 15:50, in article BE6F29CE.F6FCE%[email protected],
"Dave

Hi John,

Somehow this discussion seems to have gotten out of hand. We seem to have
gotten onto Outline Lists and Numbering,
Automatically updating styles, etc etc. None of these I have issues with.

Maybe we should start again with the original question:

I have a numbered list like:

a) item number one,
b) item number two,
c) and so on

I have some intervening text in my usual body text style.
Now I wish to create a new list, but it continues with numbering
from the previous list after the addition of this
intervening text as follows:

d) item one in new list,
e) and etc.

My question is, given that there is no option to use the ³Restart
numbering²
from within the styles settings (ie Format>Style>Modify>Format>NumberingŠ)
and
that using the Format>Bullets and Numbering seems to frowned upon, as per
the
quote below taken directly from the MVP link you gave me;

http://www.word.mvps.org/faqs/numbering/ListRestartMethods.htm

³ Warning: Avoid using the Format > Bullets and Numbering dialog to
restart list numbering (and its equivalent, the ListGalleries collection,
in
VBA code). Accessing list templates via the list galleries has been
implicated in building up extra list templates in documents, changing
list
template names, and losing links between list templates and styles. ³

what steps are needed to get the second list (and I suppose any subsequent
list with that same style) to restart at Œa)¹ ?

Please let me know if the question is not that clear.

Regards, Dave