Office 2004 German to Office 2008

I

i386

I purchased originally Office X in English, recently brought the Office 2004 upgrade from the Apple store, unfortunately they shipped the German version (probably my fault for not paying enough attention), Anyway I thought nothing of it, I'll just request Office 2008 in English in the free upgrade deal. But of course this seems not to possible for Microsoft. Which is not a very Mac friendly thing to do. Since the OS X has already being multi-lingual, why the heck can't Microsoft just make a multi-lingual version ?

I mean it's easy to do in Xcode (the Mac development platform) just create the NIB for each language...

How come Microsoft can't make a multi-lingual version of Office 2008 ?

Anyway Microsoft Direct wont change it, some crap about 1 to 1 , like for like... etc... I pay for the thing, you got my money. Their service was friendly unfortunately I'm disappointed with the outcome.
 
T

Tobias Weber

upgrade from the Apple store, unfortunately they shipped the German version

Is that a problem? Somehow inferior?
(probably my fault for not paying enough attention), Anyway I thought nothing
Yes

heck can't Microsoft just make a multi-lingual version ?<br>

They don't believe in it. None of MS' products is.
I mean it's easy to do in Xcode (the Mac development platform) just create
the NIB for each language...<br>

nib files are used by modern Mac software. Office is a big old codebase
and maintained on Windows.
How come Microsoft can't make a multi-lingual version of Office 2008 ?<br>

They'd have to change their whole localization process
like... etc... I pay for the thing, you got my money. Their service was
friendly unfortunately I'm disappointed with the outcome.

Nothing we can do
 
R

Raphael Josse

I purchased originally Office X in English, recently brought the Office 2004
upgrade from the Apple store, unfortunately they shipped the German version
(probably my fault for not paying enough attention), Anyway I thought nothing
of it, I'll just request Office 2008 in English in the free upgrade deal. But
of course this seems not to possible for Microsoft. Which is not a very Mac
friendly thing to do. Since the OS X has already being multi-lingual, why the
heck can't Microsoft just make a multi-lingual version ?<br>
<br>
I mean it's easy to do in Xcode (the Mac development platform) just create
the NIB for each language...<br>
<br>
How come Microsoft can't make a multi-lingual version of Office 2008 ?<br>
<br>
Anyway Microsoft Direct wont change it, some crap about 1 to 1 , like for
like... etc... I pay for the thing, you got my money. Their service was
friendly unfortunately I'm disappointed with the outcome.

I have quite the same issue here. I bought the upgrade on the Belgian
AppleStore and received a French version of the standard Office 2008
upgrade. The AppleStore always default to the closest language version
of the store. As I have all software on my machine in English, I
contacted the AppleStore to get an exchange for the English version. But
since the box has been opened, the AppleStore will not change my French
version for an English one.

I thought that since the development was done using XCode, the software
would have all language resources available, or at least French besides
English. I looked at the DVD using Pacifist to find that only French was
available.

When I contacted Microsoft for some help, calling a Belgian support
number, I reached the France sales department, who said they did not
support Belgian customers. After two successive attempts to call someone
in Belgium using France-provided numbers, and always reaching a contact
person in France, the last person I talked to contacted the Belgian
'Customer Service Support Management' team.

My contact there tells me that I should contact the AppleStore for an
exchange, although I told him I already did with no success.

I asked him if he can somewhat arrange to send me just the DVD with the
English version, provided that the serial numbers are not tied to the
language. The answer was then that Microsoft is not the distributor but
the manufacturer.

I'm expressing my disappointment here, hoping someone from the MBU would
read this and maybe provide me with a solution.

I'm not asking a miracle but just someone that can think out of the box
;-) After all, I bought a licence, I have a serial number, and the only
thing I miss is the right installation DVD.

Regards,

Raf
raphaeldotjosseatskynetdotbe
 
D

Diane Ross

I'm expressing my disappointment here, hoping someone from the MBU would
read this and maybe provide me with a solution.

I'm not asking a miracle but just someone that can think out of the box
;-) After all, I bought a licence, I have a serial number, and the only
thing I miss is the right installation DVD.

Once any software is opened, it's not returnable. Nothing is going to change
anyone's policy about this. Your best bet is to sell it yourself. Maybe the
store would help you sell it if you purchased an English version from them.
 
R

Raphael Josse

Diane Ross said:
Once any software is opened, it's not returnable. Nothing is going to change
anyone's policy about this. Your best bet is to sell it yourself. Maybe the
store would help you sell it if you purchased an English version from them.

I understand that, and as I say I'd be glad to use my existing serial
number with the English version of the standard Office suite. Provided
that the number is not tied to the language.

Otherwise, I just give my French-version number to Microsoft so that it
can be added to the list of invalid numbers on their validation servers.

As far as the AppleStore is concerned, I thought the version to be sent,
although mentioned as French, would be like the MacOS X installation
disks, i.e. manuals and box in French, but the installation software
would let me pick up the language I would install.

Raf
 
D

Diane Ross

I understand that, and as I say I'd be glad to use my existing serial
number with the English version of the standard Office suite. Provided
that the number is not tied to the language.

Otherwise, I just give my French-version number to Microsoft so that it
can be added to the list of invalid numbers on their validation servers.

As far as the AppleStore is concerned, I thought the version to be sent,
although mentioned as French, would be like the MacOS X installation
disks, i.e. manuals and box in French, but the installation software
would let me pick up the language I would install.

Raf

Sadly, that's not the case. Never assume. I guess you could try downloading
one of the pirated copies and try your serial number. Be sure not to get one
of the beta copies. It will expire soon and is full of bugs and debugging
code. Since you do have a paid for copy, this probably falls into some gray
area of legality. I certainly don't condone pirated software.
 
R

Raphael Josse

Diane Ross said:
Sadly, that's not the case. Never assume. I guess you could try downloading
one of the pirated copies and try your serial number. Be sure not to get one
of the beta copies. It will expire soon and is full of bugs and debugging
code. Since you do have a paid for copy, this probably falls into some gray
area of legality. I certainly don't condone pirated software.

Neither do I, that's why I try to go the legal way.

Thanks for your input.

Raf
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Tobias:

They don't believe in it. None of MS' products is.

Actually, they DO believe in it, Office 2008 was very nearly done that way.
All the Windows Office products are done that way.

In the case of Office 2008, they were not able to complete the work this
time.
nib files are used by modern Mac software. Office is a big old codebase
and maintained on Windows.

Mmmm... Not any more :) That's one of the problems ‹ on OS X in Universal
Binary they can't easily steal code from the Windows side. That's why this
version was so expensive, and took so long.
They'd have to change their whole localization process

They have :) The localisation process now runs off external files that are
not part of the executable code.

Cheers

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
 
T

Tobias Weber

John McGhie said:
All the Windows Office products are done that way.

Apparently I'm not up to speed
Mmmm... Not any more :) That's one of the problems — on OS X in Universal
Binary they can't easily steal code from the Windows side. That's why this

I bet most of it is still crufty C(++) identical for both platforms
version was so expensive, and took so long.

Could you point me to some coverage on this?
They have :) The localisation process now runs off external files that are
not part of the executable code.

Only now?
I meant the way things are organized rather than the technical side.
 
R

Raphael Josse

I finally installed the version I received, because I didn't receive any
news from my last email to the Belgian Microsoft Client Support. And my
best bet is that I could wait for it for a long time.

Anyway, although I can easily live with everything in French, there is
one thing that really annoys me. At work, I'm using Excel every day, in
fact for everything I do (two software I use, Excel and Access), in a
Windows 2007 version in English.

I've seen that all formulas in the 2008 French version do use the French
names instead of the English ones, and this is were I'm having a real
user experience issue that is more than just aesthetic.

I suppose there will be no way of having these in English instead ?
Except that is hoping for either a miracle, or going into the grey area
;-)

Raf
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Tobias:

If you sweat your way through here: http://www.officeformac.com/blog/ you
will find various references to all the things they did to wrestle this
thing to the ground. You'll need to go back as far as three years...

Of course, software companies are extremely secretive about "how" they do
things, and what is "actually" in the code.

I understand that the majority of Microsoft Office for Mac has been migrated
to/re-written for the X-code development environment.

But I certainly wouldn't claim that there is "no" crufty old C++ hanging
around in it. Particularly in this version when they were really struggling
to hit the go-live date, they were absolutely rigid about "if it works at
all, leave it alone..."

Previously, a "localised" application had to be edited by developers in the
Microsoft localisation centres scattered around the world. They had to
trawl through the code itself.

Now, the "language" is all externalised into strings files. They ship the
strings files off to translators (in something that looks remarkably like a
spreadsheet). The translators translate the strings and send it back. The
Make File plugs the translated strings back into the application.

It's actually close to exactly the same process as they use on the Windows
side. Everything is set up to use a Common Language Runtime, the way Office
2007 does.

However, for Office 2007, you can buy a Multi Language User Interface
version, which WILL switch user interface languages on the fly. It costs
extra, and is only marketed to multinational companies that need it. I work
for Alcan, which has offices all over the world. When my co-worker logs on
to my computer, his applications come up in French, mine in English. Same
server, same applications exactly.

I understand that Mac Office is engineered to do that also, in this version;
but they didn't have time to walk the final mile and produce the MUI
application that actually performs the switch dynamically.

All the plumbing is there: but getting it all tested and debugged across 29
languages was a bridge too far for this release.

So the reason the other language versions come out a little after the
English one is purely the time taken to translate the strings. Particularly
for the user interface, it makes sense to wait for the English version to
finalise and sign-off before they begin translation.

Can you imagine the version control issues inherent in tracking updates as
they hit hundreds of thousands of strings across 29 different languages?

I don't have to: I used to work in the Translation Editing Section for
Fujitsu :) Thy tell me I will be OK if I just keep taking the
medication...

Cheers


Apparently I'm not up to speed


I bet most of it is still crufty C(++) identical for both platforms


Could you point me to some coverage on this?


Only now?
I meant the way things are organized rather than the technical side.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
 
T

Tobias Weber

John McGhie said:
I understand that the majority of Microsoft Office for Mac has been migrated
to/re-written for the X-code development environment.

But I certainly wouldn't claim that there is "no" crufty old C++ hanging

Without touching any of your arguments: just saying "Xcode" means
nothing. Hence the misunderstanding by the original poster that Office
would now use .nib files. Apart from doing Cocoa/Objective-C Xcode can
be used to work on command line tools in Java, just like Visual Studio
can probably compile X11 software developed for Linux on Windows.
 
C

Corentin Cras-Méneur

Tobias Weber said:
They don't believe in it. None of MS' products is.


Messenger is, RDC is, the drivers for the mouse and keyboard is....

The problem s far as I heard is that the resources are huge in Office
apps and if you want to include them all (Office apps are packages with
..lproj inside now) the app would take a *considerable* amount of space.
Patches would be huge too,


Corentin
 
C

Corentin Cras-Méneur

Tobias Weber said:
Without touching any of your arguments: just saying "Xcode" means
nothing. Hence the misunderstanding by the original poster that Office
would now use .nib files. Apart from doing Cocoa/Objective-C Xcode can
be used to work on command line tools in Java, just like Visual Studio
can probably compile X11 software developed for Linux on Windows.

True, XCode here means nothing. Nonetheless, the applications are now
packaged applications with a proper structure adapted for multi-lingual
support.

I posted another reply in the thread that explains why they didn't want
to ship multi-lingual versions (too huge).

Corentin
 
C

Corentin Cras-Méneur

Raphael Josse said:
I've seen that all formulas in the 2008 French version do use the French
names instead of the English ones, and this is were I'm having a real
user experience issue that is more than just aesthetic.

I suppose there will be no way of having these in English instead ?
Except that is hoping for either a miracle, or going into the grey area
;-)

You can't switch the user interface in Englisha and she can't switch the
language for the fomulas either (it's tied together) :-(

The only way out is to install the US version,
Now... in the past, the US version accepted the serial number from the
other ones. It's worht trying to "lay a hand" on a US cd, and install it
with her serial number (though i would carefully clean everything up
first: uninstall the French version an make sure you trash *all* the
office prefs)


Corentin
 
R

readingaloud

I got caught in the same trap--buying a German-language version of the 2008 upgrade to update my English-language version. To tell you the truth, it never occurred to me that the program wouldn't allow you to set a language preference--wouldn't it be vastly easier for Microsoft to ship one version? The idea that it's more efficient for them to keep track of many different language versions rather than one omni-lingual version strikes me as highly unlikely.

And I don't buy the argument about having to reduce the file size. The blamed thing is over a gigabyte, and seems to include dictionaries in umpteen languages--how much space could it possibly take to hold language versions of the interface?

Perhaps this is part of a price-discrimination strategy--I paid 717 CHF (about $658), while the US Amazon price is about $255. Is this a soak-the-Europeans (or at least the Swiss) scheme?
 
R

Raphael Josse

You can't switch the user interface in Englisha and she can't switch the
language for the fomulas either (it's tied together) :-(

The only way out is to install the US version,
Now... in the past, the US version accepted the serial number from the
other ones. It's worht trying to "lay a hand" on a US cd, and install it
with her serial number (though i would carefully clean everything up
first: uninstall the French version an make sure you trash *all* the
office prefs)


Corentin

Looks like the only option for me, just looking after a US CD, try to
install and that should be it.

Raf
 
R

Raphael Josse

Messenger is, RDC is, the drivers for the mouse and keyboard is....

The problem s far as I heard is that the resources are huge in Office
apps and if you want to include them all (Office apps are packages with
.lproj inside now) the app would take a *considerable* amount of space.
Patches would be huge too,


Corentin

I can understand the space constrain.

Two suggestions then :

* the installation DVD includes the local version plus the English
version, the user is then able to opt for either the local or the
'international' version

* having all language versions on a DVD but only give the option of
installing one and only one language with the exclusion of all other
languages included on the installation disk

This way, people like me would not have had the problem we are now
facing. Currently I'm feeling like being forced into a non-optimised
solution.

The difference between the two options takes into consideration the
ratio between the shared code among all language versions, and the
language-specific resources.

Raf
 
C

Corentin Cras-Méneur

Raphael Josse said:
This way, people like me would not have had the problem we are now
facing. Currently I'm feeling like being forced into a non-optimised
solution.

Let MS know what you think by using the "Send feedback" command in the
Help menu of the Office apps,


Corentin
 
R

Raphael Josse

Let MS know what you think by using the "Send feedback" command in the
Help menu of the Office apps,


Corentin

Done ;-)

Besides that issue, I 'complained' about the non equivalence of features
between the Window and the Macintosh suites. Cross-platform should be
feature-equivalent, but this might be in itself a separate post. Are
Adobe applications so different on the Windows and Macintosh side ? So
why should Microsoft ones be.

Taking into account contrains the MBU faced, I can understand the lack
of certain features.

Now it might be time to start working on an update (I mean not a paid
upgrade) that would bring the Macintosh version on par feature-wise with
the Windows version.

Because the current version looks like an half-baked cookie ;-) Mid-term
between Office 2003-level (things that did evolve in version 2007 but
not on the 2008 side, like conditional formating in Excel) and Office
2007-level (file format), with the omission of some items (OLAP cubes in
Excel). But these are only examples.

Raf
 

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