Office 2008 - No Macros?

D

dfwenigma

I heard a vicious and ugly rumor that there was yet another effort to
exclude Mac users from some of the features and benefits that
Microsoft Office (Windows) users enjoy. I've heard that macros are
being dropped in Office 2008. I just wonder whether anyone in the
product management group at Microsoft considers the fact that Mac
users work with Windows users. Or is this yet another effort to fly
under the radar and drop support for the Mac OS forcing Mac users to
run Office in emulation? Where does the oppressive Mac bias end? I
mean have you SEEN Vista? Is anyone else tired of being a "second
class" citizen when it comes to the Mac version of Office? I am! I
guess the Mac user base is going to have to report these actions to
the US Department of Justice and the European Community as evidence
that once again there's a concerted effort to undermine the Mac OS by
Microsoft. Maybe then Microsoft will take Mac users seriously.

I can't see another reason to support macros in the Office version of
one OS and not the other unless there's a concerted effort of some
kind. If I'm wrong I'll be glad to acknowledge it - but the rumor
seems fairly well supported and what other reasonable explanation can
there be?

http://www.macworld.com/2007/09/reviews/vmwarefusion/index.php
 
A

Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]

Porting Visual Basic for Office applications under Office 2008 for Mac on
Intel would have been a huge strain on the developers. It possibly could be
done, but maybe Office 2008 for Mac would become Office 2010 for Mac. It was
necessary trade off to deliver features with more priority while delivering
the suite on time. Exchange integration in Entourage 2008 is something you
should definitely look forward to in addition to that, the suite works
natively on Intel based Macs. Other features to look forward to include the
XML formats to work seamlessly with Office 2007 applications.

There are tools available for migrating Macros to an Apple Scripting based
methodology. With Visual Basic for Office applications on Windows might
eventually be phased out in a few years with the next release of Office for
Windows '14', it would be a wasted effort to get something working just find
it won't be even supported with future versions of Office for Windows.
 
C

CyberTaz

I understand where you're coming from, but the conspiracy theory just
doesn't hold up:) Just a few points (as I understand them) to help clarify:

1- You've been misinformed or have misinterpreted - MS has announced that
VBA will not be supported in Office 2008. Visual Basic for Applications is
not synonymous with "macros". What we have to look forward to remains to be
seen, but some other scripting language will most likely replace VBA...
Sooner or later, any way.

2- VBA on the Mac & VBA in Windows hasn't been *fully* compatible for years,
so there was already a big gap between what can be done in PC Office v. what
survives when moved over to Mac.

3- VBA is End of Life even in Windows - announced to be no longer supported
there when the next version of Win Office ships - tentatively Spring 2010 -
because of security issues and other vulnerability. VBA support was
originally intended to be dropped in Office 2007, but the Corporate Global
Community united to demand it be retained for one more version.
Unfortunately (or not) the Mac voice was nowhere near as loud or persuasive.

4- Based on the inevitable demise of VBA MacBU spent their available budget
focusing on other aspects of Mac Office 2008 rather than playing catch-up
with a language destined for distinction in the immediate future.

5- Vista is the latest version of Windows OS & has nothing to do with Win
Office 2007. If you like Vista - which I can't really tell from the way your
post is phrased - you'll need to complain to Apple about OS X being "second
class". You might do well to investigate al little beyond the superficial
aspects of the GUI first, however, as Vista is having more than its fair
share of nightmares from an *operating* standpoint... And don't forget that
OS X Leopard is only 2 weeks away:)

6- The article you link to mentions absolutely nothing about VBA - and what
it states about macros is not entirely accurate... Excel Macro Language
(XLM) - as I understand it - will still be supported. In case you missed its
point, that article is a sales pitch for VMWareFusion disguised as a
"review" - its entire slant is to convince the reader that they need & want
the product being advertised.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac




On 10/18/07 2:48 AM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "(e-mail address removed)"

I heard a vicious and ugly rumor that there was yet another effort to
exclude Mac users from some of the features and benefits that
Microsoft Office (Windows) users enjoy. I've heard that macros are
being dropped in Office 2008. I just wonder whether anyone in the
product management group at Microsoft considers the fact that Mac
users work with Windows users. Or is this yet another effort to fly
under the radar and drop support for the Mac OS forcing Mac users to
run Office in emulation? Where does the oppressive Mac bias end? I
mean have you SEEN Vista? Is anyone else tired of being a "second
class" citizen when it comes to the Mac version of Office? I am! I
guess the Mac user base is going to have to report these actions to
the US Department of Justice and the European Community as evidence
that once again there's a concerted effort to undermine the Mac OS by
Microsoft. Maybe then Microsoft will take Mac users seriously.

I can't see another reason to support macros in the Office version of
one OS and not the other unless there's a concerted effort of some
kind. If I'm wrong I'll be glad to acknowledge it - but the rumor
seems fairly well supported and what other reasonable explanation can
there be?

http://www.macworld.com/2007/09/reviews/vmwarefusion/index.php
 
P

Paul Williams

Exchange integration in Entourage 2008 is something you
should definitely look forward to in addition to that, the suite works
natively on Intel based Macs. Other features to look forward to include the
XML formats to work seamlessly with Office 2007 applications.

About the Exchange integration within Entourage 2008 compared to what we
already have in Entourage 2004: Do you know what's new and different?
I have yet to see a Microsoft comparison of features between 2004 and 2008.
This leads me to believe that there is little difference between the two
(apart from Out of Office and My Day) just a bit of "deckchair rearranging".

Which isn't really good enough for four years of development. Is it?

Thanks,

Paul
 
J

JE McGimpsey

Paul Williams said:
About the Exchange integration within Entourage 2008 compared to what we
already have in Entourage 2004: Do you know what's new and different?
I have yet to see a Microsoft comparison of features between 2004 and 2008.
This leads me to believe that there is little difference between the two
(apart from Out of Office and My Day) just a bit of "deckchair rearranging".

Which isn't really good enough for four years of development. Is it?

So not seeing a comparison leads you to believe that you know what the
comparison would show? Hmmm....

Here's what's been released so far. Expect more over the next several
weeks:

http://blogs.msdn.com/macmojo/default.aspx
 
P

Paul Williams

On 18/10/2007 17:13, in article
(e-mail address removed), "JE McGimpsey"



So not seeing a comparison leads you to believe that you know what the
comparison would show? Hmmm....

Whoops. Yes, I see your point. It's based upon my own reading of the MacMojo
blog. I think that any substantial changes to the mail client between 2004
and 2008 would already have been trailed. So far? Nothing that pops my cork.

And I'd have expected any beta testers of E2008 to be dropping hints about
the amazing new features too. So far? Nothing. Not a sausage.

But then I am a "glass half empty" kinda guy.

Pw
 
J

JE McGimpsey

Paul Williams said:
Whoops. Yes, I see your point. It's based upon my own reading of the MacMojo
blog. I think that any substantial changes to the mail client between 2004
and 2008 would already have been trailed. So far? Nothing that pops my cork.

Roll-out's still almost three months away. MacBU typically tries to
build momentum rather exponentially.
And I'd have expected any beta testers of E2008 to be dropping hints about
the amazing new features too. So far? Nothing. Not a sausage.

Beta testers quickly cease to be beta testers if they drop hints.
Nondisclosure agreements (i.e., enforceable contracts) apply...
But then I am a "glass half empty" kinda guy.

And while I try to see the "glass half full", I tend to be a "glass is
twice as big as it needs to be" kinda guy...
 
J

Jim Gordon MVP

My comments are in-line...

-Jim

I heard a vicious and ugly rumor that there was yet another effort to
exclude Mac users from some of the features and benefits that
Microsoft Office (Windows) users enjoy. I've heard that macros are
being dropped in Office 2008.

The rumor your heard is correct. Please don't beat up the messenger of the
rumor, as the facts you have stated are substantially correct. VBA will be
gone. Since for years (at least since Word 98, maybe even earlier) WordBasic
macros were automatically turned into VBA Macros I doubt they will work any
more either. No news yet on Excel version 4 style macros. But as a practical
matter I think it is fair to say macros will be gone from Office 2008.
I just wonder whether anyone in the
product management group at Microsoft considers the fact that Mac
users work with Windows users.

They are aware that some Mac users share documents with Windows users.
Microsoft does not think there are many of us who need complete
interoperability in this regard.
Or is this yet another effort to fly
under the radar and drop support for the Mac OS forcing Mac users to
run Office in emulation?

With regard to users who need VBA compatibility with Windows office
Microsoft offers Office 2004. At least until January, 2008. Otherwise you
are stuck using Windows either in emulation, via Remote Desktop, or on a
PC-based computer. Office 2004 appears to be the final version of Office to
be offered on the Mac that is VBA compatible. You better stock up if you
want to keep the existing compatibility, such as it is.

I don't think Microsoft is trying to fly "under the radar." They've been up
front about their decision to drop VBA support on the Mac. No one who uses
VBA should consider purchasing Office 2008 unless they are willing to invest
what they know in re-doing their code in AppleScript, in which Microsoft has
invested quite heavily. No existing VBA macros will work at all in Mac
Office 2008, nor will any new ones. There will be no VBA compiler. No VBA
editor. No VBA run-time. No VBA player. AppleScript will be the only way to
do any programming of Office 2008. AppleScript accomplishes this by using a
somewhat modified version of the OLE feature of VBA, which is an indirect
way of executing VBA commands externally from the Office applications. Some
compromises had to be made along the way.
Where does the oppressive Mac bias end?

When it hurts sales of Microsoft products for the Mac. In other words, when
Mac users don't buy Office 2008.
I mean have you SEEN Vista?

Yes. I think it's OK. Nice, even. I've seen demos of Leopard. It's amazing.
I can use VISTA and XP when I have to. But I really *want* to use Leopard.
Is anyone else tired of being a "second
class" citizen when it comes to the Mac version of Office? I am!

Me, too! But right now, you and I don't have Microsoft's ear. For years
they've been hearing Mac people whine and moan about "feature bloat" and
complaining that Office has lots of features that they will never use. What
these whiners have been saying translates to what we see in Office 2008 -
lower cost of creating the product and happy customers who get what they
asked for: no "unnecessary" features.

People like you and me have been relatively quiet - scraping along on the
workable, but far from ideal situation of VBA version 5. Beginning with
Office 2008 we are shut out. Microsoft apparently thinks there aren't enough
of us as customers of Mac Office to make a difference in sales of Office
2008 to the point where it will hurt sales. They are shedding a costly set
of features that get low use. They know they will shed some customers, but
expect the vast majority of Mac users will continue to purchase the Mac
Office 2008 product even without VBA. In short, Microsoft seems to think
there aren't enough of us Mac Office users who want programmability and
compatibility to make it profitable for them to continue its implementation
and support.
I guess the Mac user base is going to have to report these actions to
the US Department of Justice and the European Community as evidence
that once again there's a concerted effort to undermine the Mac OS by
Microsoft. Maybe then Microsoft will take Mac users seriously.

Ouch! I *hate* getting courts and the law involved. They are typically out
of touch on science and technology issues. Remember the judge who said that
Microsoft's line-by-line copying of Apple's OS was not infringement? That
decision pretty much made Microsoft a viable company. I just don't trust
these folks to make good decisions about technology issues.

I think there are more effective ways to lobby for the cause of demanding
that Mac customers be offered quality Microsoft products that are equal to
or better than their Windows counterparts.

Of course the #1 way to show how important VBA is would be if Office 2008
simply flops. If Mac customers continue to purchase 2004 instead of 2008
Microsoft will get the message plenty fast.

Be outspoken in every forum you can think of. Blogs. Magazines. Local
newspapers that run computer columns. User groups. Your message will
directly conflict with some long standing Mac smugness about feature bloat.
Your argument is as much against the folks in the Mac community who don't
want you to have these features as it is against Microsoft for listening to
these jerks.
I can't see another reason to support macros in the Office version of
one OS and not the other unless there's a concerted effort of some
kind. If I'm wrong I'll be glad to acknowledge it - but the rumor
seems fairly well supported and what other reasonable explanation can
there be?

http://www.macworld.com/2007/09/reviews/vmwarefusion/index.php

The rumor is right on the money. You were not mislead. I'm sure no company
wants to shed customers, but ones like us who are too costly to satisfy
simply have to go sometimes, I guess. It's not easy to be rejected, but here
we are.

If our numbers are small, then only a few of us go home bruised. I conclude
Microsoft apparently thinks that's the case. If our numbers are large, then
not only we get hurt, but so does Apple, as customers have to resort to
Windows as the only practical office solution. This puts a damper on the
Apple "switcher" campaign and unfortunately turns the tide in the opposite
direction.

Personally, I think this Microsoft decision will cost Apple serious money -
many millions of dollars in lost sales as Office 2008 will be an even less
attractive option than Office 2004 for organizational office users, but what
do I know? We're supposed to stay in our graphic/creative/home-user pigeon
holes, right?

-Jim

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info
 

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