ON 2003 Spacing Issues

A

Andrew Oliner

I'm having a couple of weird things with Inserting and Removing extra
writing space in ON 2003 SP2.

1. Remove Extra Writing Space no longer works. This may be related to
problem 2.

2. Insert Extra Writing Space inserts blank "Paragraphs". I don't know if
this is intentional. But in any event, the paragraphs are sometimes the
default height, sometimes they are about 3/4 height, and sometimes they are
only half the normal height. This leads to all sorts of weirdness.

For one thing, when I write what I consider to be a line of handwritten
text, if the para's are half-height, then some of the text will be linked to
one para, some the other. That's the biggest problem. The others are that
the text stops lining up with the rule lines, and that the noteflags vary in
size.

These different size paras occur on the same page. It is not consistent,
like some pages have one size, some have another.

Hope someone can help.

Andy
 
G

Grant Robertson

I'm having a couple of weird things with Inserting and Removing extra
writing space in ON 2003 SP2.

Andrew, don't waste your time doing detect and repair. That is a cop out
answer because MVP's don't like to admit that there are real problems but
they need to keep up their reply rate to maintain their MVP status.
1. Remove Extra Writing Space no longer works. This may be related to
problem 2.

Remove Extra Writing Space in 2003 only works in areas where there is
absolutely nothing in the space you are removing. Otherwise how would
OneNote know what to remove? Even if you just added space and it looks
empty it may not be. See below.
2. Insert Extra Writing Space inserts blank "Paragraphs". I don't know if
this is intentional. But in any event, the paragraphs are sometimes the
default height, sometimes they are about 3/4 height, and sometimes they are
only half the normal height. This leads to all sorts of weirdness.

This is common behavior in ON 2003. It happens most often when you are
inserting space between handwriting.
For one thing, when I write what I consider to be a line of handwritten
text, if the para's are half-height, then some of the text will be linked to
one para, some the other. That's the biggest problem. The others are that
the text stops lining up with the rule lines, and that the noteflags vary in
size.

OneNote 2003 does a pretty bad job of guessing what "font" size to assign
to your handwriting. That, coupled by it trying to insert paragraphs that
match the grid size of the page (even if you aren't currently viewing a
grid) causes the odd paragraph sizes. If you put the text cursor in each
of those paragraphs you will see that OneNote has assigned different font
sizes to those empty paragraphs. I have found that I can just start
writing on that line, even if the assigned font height is tiny and
OneNote will often just adjust the assigned size to the size of my text.

The note flags vary because they are drawn to match the font size of the
paragraph.

These different size paras occur on the same page. It is not consistent,
like some pages have one size, some have another.

If you place the text cursor in various handwritten words within your
document then look up at the font size drop down you will see that the
"font size" that OneNote considers your handwriting to be varies a bit.
If you use the smallest grid or line spacing and fill that space OneNote
usually considers that to be about 20 point font. If you then convert to
text you will find that each word will be a slightly different font size.
It drives people nuts but the Most Vocal Proselytizers just downplay it.
You can select all of the text after you have done the conversion then
set it to a specific font size but that gets tedious really fast.

Many have complained about these issues in the past. You might try
searching back a few years to when OneNote 2003 first came out. Many said
that Microsoft should just allow the user to specify what font size
OneNote should assign to their handwriting, or even just always assign it
to the same font and size specified as the default. But they didn't do
anything about it. It doesn't look as if they have fixed the problem in
2007 either.

Having said that I just know that five MVP's are gonna jump in here and
say, "It's just a beta. It's just a beta." But, once MS betas have gotten
this far along they rarely if ever actually fix major things like this.
They just yank features out if they are too much of an embarrassment.


As to your problems with the EWS tool: I have found it works better to
just hand write the stuff you want to insert completelyy BELOW everything
else then drag it up using the paragraph handle. To prevent word wrapping
problems you should write it at the same indent level as you want it to
appear when you drag it up. This means you may have to write it well
below the current writing guide so you can start it however far to the
right you want. OneNote will assign it to heading level one but when you
drag it into place you can put it where you want and it won't have word
wrap weirdness.

I have written a 7 page article with diagrams explaining how to trick
OneNote 2003 into writing the way you want. Post a reply with a munged e-
mail address and I will send you a .PDF of it.
 
P

Patrick Schmid

Having said that I just know that five MVP's are gonna jump in here
and
say, "It's just a beta. It's just a beta." But, once MS betas have gotten
this far along they rarely if ever actually fix major things like this.
They just yank features out if they are too much of an embarrassment.
I am not an MVP, but I am going to jump in here anyhow. It's just a
beta, but whether this will get fixed or not is hard to say at this
point. After all, this could look like a major issue to you, but could
be a simple and quick fix for MS. Users generally don't know how big a
fix is required, therefore it is hard to say whether MS will address it
or not. If it turns out to be a major thing to fix though, then you are
completely right that it won't get fixed this late in the beta.
I haven't experienced the problem myself, but I will take a look at it.
If I can repro it, I'll file a bug and we can see what MS says.


Patrick Schmid
 
C

Chris_Pratley \(MS\)

When you convert handwriting to text in 2007 we no longer try to guess the
font size. We just use the default for the page (which the user can set). So
Grant, we actually did try to fix this issue. If you had tried this before
assuming we hadn't fixed it you might not have had to complain, and instead
could have given us feedback on how the fix worked or doesn't work in your
opinion.

We also tried hard to fix ink this time around, and the EWS tool with it. If
you care to give us feedback on that too, much apprecated.

You mentioned elsewhere that you can't do "true outlining" or something
similar in 2007. One thing we did in 2007 is remove the selection handles
that appeared when inking. We got a lot of feedback that peoepl didn't like
these and they got in the way when writing, causing accidental moves, etc.
To get access to them, you need to click on the "selection tool" (pen button
might also work - don't have my tablet with me). This makes inking and
moving at the same time a little harder but the feedback was so strong that
trying to combine these was not working that we decided to separate them.
You're right that this and writing guides have been changed from 2007, but
since we were responding to customer feedback please don't ding us for it.
(well, not TOO hard anyway). Our thin skins can't take it! In 2003 we were
essentially trying to make ink outliners happy, but the other 98% of users
told us to just optimize for straight inking and nothing fancy so 2007 is
all about simple inking and manipulation and combining of handwriting and
drawings.

Chris Pratley (MS)
OneNote blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/chris_pratley/
 
G

Grant Robertson

"Chris_Pratley \(MS said:
When you convert handwriting to text in 2007 we no longer try to guess the
font size. We just use the default for the page (which the user can set). So
Grant, we actually did try to fix this issue. If you had tried this before
assuming we hadn't fixed it you might not have had to complain, and instead
could have given us feedback on how the fix worked or doesn't work in your
opinion.

You are right, and I apologize. I had been switching back and forth
between 03 and 07 so much that I lost track. But don't expect me to stop
being the loyal opposition.
We also tried hard to fix ink this time around, and the EWS tool with it. If
you care to give us feedback on that too, much apprecated.

I have found that using the EWS tool within a text block splits the text
block into two separate blocks. This just makes a mess. If you have a
numbered outline then it hoses up the numbering in the bottom block. You
can test it right in the Getting Started guide. What's worse is, if you
only insert a little space then the now two text blocks overlap each
other. If you then write in that space it is hard to control exactly
which text block it ends up in because you can't see them when you are
writing. Finally, I can't figure out any way to join those text blocks
back together other than to cut and paste the text from the bottom back
to the top. That gets really tiresome really fast. But wait, there's
more... When I am using the EWS tool the text block borders aren't
visible so I have no way to make sure I never use the EWS tool within a
text block. Therefore, I am afraid to ever use the EWS tool at all.

Oh, yeah, one more thing... If you use the EWS tool within a text block
above a picture and that picture has any ink or drawing elements on top
of it, then the picture will be redrawn on top of all the ink and drawing
elements. This, of course, ruins the picture. To make matters worse, you
can't select that picture to send it to the back because you can't click
select only one thing. You have to use the lasso tool which also selects
all the ink behind the picture. Therefore, you can't send it to the back
because you would just send all of it to the back. Even if I could fix
it, I shouldn't have to. Would you like to have to fix perhaps a dozen
pictures every time you just wanted to insert some more space somewhere?

Now, I have found that this doesn't happen when you add more space
completely above the text block containing the picture but, as I said
earlier, it is hard to tell when you are doing that because you can't see
the text blocks.
 
A

Andrew Oliner

Thanks for your answer. Nice to know that at least I'm not doing something
wrong.

Of course, it would be nicer still if it worked right. <g>
 
R

Rainald Taesler

Grant Robertson shared these words of wisdom:
I have written a 7 page article with diagrams explaining how to
trick OneNote 2003 into writing the way you want. Post a reply
with a munged e- mail address and I will send you a .PDF of it.

May I kindly ask for your pare?

Rainald
 
R

Rainald Taesler

Grant Robertson shared these words of wisdom:
What the heck is a pare?

Sorry, one of my typos [grrrrrh] (for many long years in my old main
forum at CIEs - and later in the NG where this forum was continued - I
had the title TypoKing without any danger that someone else might
seize power [siiiigh]).

I had wanted to ask for the PAPER.

Regards
Rainald
http://www.hs-heilbronn.de/Members/taesler
 
M

mona

can u send me the article with diagrams u wrote explaining how to write using
onenote the way u want to write. my email is (e-mail address removed)
 
R

Rainald Taesler

mona said:
can u send me the article with diagrams u wrote explaining how to
write using onenote the way u want to write. my email is
(e-mail address removed)

You may download it from my FTP-site:
ftp://ftp.hs-heilbronn.de/vdb/onenote/

Rainald
 

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