Once saved as a website, can't open them again in publisher

J

JaneinPA

I'm new to making websites in Publisher. I didn't realize that when I save
as a website that Publisher will not open the files again. How does one get
around this (without having to open the files in Dreamweaver!)
 
D

DavidF

Publisher is a DTP with the ability to produce web pages, but it is not a
code editor. Assuming that you saved the original Pub file, you open it,
make any desired changes, and "Publish to the Web" to produce new web
pages....you don't edit the old html, you replace it with new. Depending
upon the version you use, you do not "Save As a Web Page" to produce the
html code.

If you didn't keep your original pub file, then post back and there is a way
to reproduce a Pub file from the html code, but it is tedious. Meanwhile you
might want to read:

Reference: Using Publisher for web sites :
http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/articles/80566.aspx

Reference: Prepare, publish, and maintain your Publisher Web site:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/publisher/HA100947601033.aspx

Publisher is intended for relatively simple, small and static websites. If
your goals for your site are beyond that, then you might want to consider
using a different program.

DavidF
 
J

JaneinPA

Well, of course I didn't save the publisher files, but it's not so important
for this project. I planned to use it in the summer to teach a kids web
design course & it's good I discovered this now! So the best bet is to save
as publisher files and then save as a website at the very end?
 
R

Rob Giordano \(Crash\)

If you use Pub to teach a web design course you will be teaching them ONLY
Publisher's way. They'd learn much more about web design and html if you
used a regular web editor and not a dtp program like Publisher.


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression
 
J

JaneinPA

This will be for really young kids, ages 10 & 11. I do use Dreamweaver when
I teach an older group of kids. I think Dreamweaver is a little much for the
young ones. I tried doing it in Word last year, but that was not very
successful.
 
D

DavidF

Jane,

Contrary to Rob, I think Publisher can be a good tool to introduce kids to
web design, depending upon the age group and the goals and scope of what you
are trying to accomplish. I disagree with Rob that teaching a full web
editor and html coding is necessary to introduce a child to web building. It
also sounds like the teacher needs to do a little homework before she will
be ready to teach the use of this tool.

Which version of Publisher will you and the kids be using? Will they be
using school computers with Publisher already installed? What age group are
these kids? Are you also introducing them to desktop publishing? I will be
happy to provide you with links to some more reference material and articles
that will explain how best to use Publisher for this task, if you would
explain to me what you are tying to do in more detail.

DavidF
 
D

DavidF

Why would it necessarily be teaching them ONLY Publisher way? Couldn't it be
just one part of an introduction to web building? She could still talk about
the html coding that is going on in the background in Publisher. She could
reference sites such as http://webdesignfromscratch.com/ and
http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/ for those kids that want to take it to
another level. She could talk about NVU, Dreamweaver, Web Expression and
full fledged web editors.

Once again, I think that the decision about whether Publisher is the correct
tool to use depends upon the scope and goals of what she is trying to do. If
you have an 8 year old, that is using a school computer with Publisher
already installed, and you are already introducing the kid to DTP, and the
kid will be in a short 4 week summer program, then would you still suggest
that each kid go out and buy Web Expression...or even try to use NVU or
learn html coding? All of that would be overkill and inappropriate in my
mind.

DavidF
 
D

DavidF

Jane,

I wrote my other replies before seeing this post. I agree with you. Rob and
other experts tend to forget that there are groups of people in the world
where using a full fledged web editor is simply overkill. You can produce a
good looking and fully funcional site with Publisher. Here are just a few
examples:

http://www.beltonstud.com/
http://www.summitcts.com/
http://devonviewcaravans.co.uk/
http://www.mjyso.com/
http://www.makingsenseofeducation.co.uk/
http://stillwaterjovolleyball.org/index.htm

DavidF
 
J

JaneinPA

I am teaching a 1-week summer camp for 10 & 11 year olds. It is given at a
local college which has the Office Suite installed (also the Adobe suite).
The objective is to offer a fun course that will produce nice, creative sites
in a very short time.
 
R

Rob Giordano \(Crash\)

Well, because you'd be teaching them absolutely nothing about how a website
is designed, you can't even touch the code or even see it unless you jump
through hoops.
CoffeeCup or Serif's web designer would probably be better choices than
Publisher.


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression
 
D

DavidF

Jane,

Try to find out which version of Office and Publisher you will be using,
because MSFT has changed the html coding engine and how Publisher produces a
web site over the years. It would be best if you knew which version you were
working with before the class started. I do think that Publisher is a better
choice than Word for your purposes, as it will be easier for the kids to
layout the pages. There are a lot of good templates the kids can use. You
might also find out if the Adobe Suite has Photoshop or Photoshop Elements,
as I would imagine that images will be a big part of any kids website, and
how you handle images in Publisher web pages again varies with the version
of Publisher.

Be sure to review the main link I gave you before:

Prepare, publish, and maintain your Publisher Web site:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/publisher/HA100947601033.aspx
And in particular the instructions on how to upload pages. If you aren't
going to upload the pages, then this is moot. But once again, depending upon
whether you are using Vista or XP, HTTP uploading or FTP uploading, there
are a lot of differences. FTP uploading, and not using any forms in your
websites is the easiest to deal with. If you are going to upload, you might
get in early and get the FTP connection established. Uploading problems seem
to be one of the most common problems in this group.

Publisher and the Web 2003:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/publisher/CH062559071033.aspx
Hopefully you will be using Pub 2003. Here is a link to MSFT articles about
using Pub 2003. And if you have Pub 2003 on your personal computer, then the
Help section is pretty good and worth studying. It is far better than Pub
2007 Help which was really shortchanged.

Publisher 2003 - What's new in web design for this version:
http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/80555.aspx
You might want to read this article before jumping into the MSFT articles.
David Bartosik explains some of the specifics about how 2003 works that will
probably be important to you. And while I am talking about 2003, be sure to
go to Tools > Options > Web tab and study the options there. You will want
to uncheck "Rely on VML..." and "Allow PNG..." in every case. You might also
want to uncheck the option about incremental uploading...it only works with
HTTP uploading and FPSE. And before I forget it, don't use a Master Page in
a web publication.

Web Publication Changes Made in Version 2002 of Publisher :
http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/81262.aspx
Hopefully you won't be saddled with using Pub 2002 as it is the worse
version of Publisher for web building IMHO. Never the less, you might want
to read this along with the article about 2003 to get an idea of the
evolution of the product.

Designing and creating Web sites 2007:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/publisher/CH100793371033.aspx
Though you probably won't be using 2007, here is a link to the MSFT articles
about using Pub 2007.

Understanding background padding in a Publisher web (aka white space) :
http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/archive/2006/01/07/80563.aspx
Publisher pages use absolute positioning and are fixed width and left
justified by default. And though it is possible to edit the code directly to
center the pages, this is certainly beyond the scope of your camp.

Compress graphics file sizes to create smaller Publisher Web pages:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/publisher/HA011266301033.aspx
As I indicated above, I would expect that kids will want lots of graphics
and images, but depending upon the version of Publisher you use, if you
insert a "print formatted" image into a web publication, Publisher 2003 does
not automatically resize and optimize the image for the web. This referenced
tool will resample and compress inserted images to 96 dpi. Once again, you
should check the computers you will be using to see if the SP has been
installed and whether the compress graphics tool has been added to the
picture tool bar. And if you do have access to an image editor such as
Photoshop Elements, you can explain to the kids about how to resample and
optimize images for the web before they insert them.

How to Thumbnail in Publisher Web Publications :
http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/80553.aspx
Once again, I would anticipate that the kids will want to know how to click
on a thumbnail and get a larger image, so understanding how to create and
use thumbnails might be important to you.

Including external files in a Publisher web :
http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/archive/2006/01/07/80561.aspx
This may be beyond what you will get into in a week.

Web safe fonts in Publisher 2003 web publications :
http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/archive/2006/01/06/81275.aspx
Another place to explain the difference between print formatted publications
and web formatted publications.

Add a page to your Web site:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/publisher/HP100676881033.aspx?pid=CH100793371033
I don't know if you will be using a Publisher template, but the kids will
certainly be wanting to add pages. Its important that you understand how to
add a page, and at the same time add that page to the navigation bar. If you
have 2003 on your home computer, read up on "navigation" in Help. The navbar
wizard is a handy tool, but it can get messed up quickly. Be sure to note
that the wizard built navbar will be using relative links vs. absolute
links. How to build good navigation in a site seems an important part of
what you may be doing.

Publisher web publication forms 101:
http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/archive/2006/01/07/80564.aspx
Publisher web forms require FPSE and HTTP uploading. I include this link for
your information, but you should probably avoid forms in the kids webs.
Uploading and getting the forms to work is one of the biggest issues in this
group.

Web forms :
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/publisher/CH063576891033.aspx

David Bartosik a former MVP included a series of articles by other authors
that were related to Publisher web sites. Here are links to some that might
be of interest to you:

How To Layout Your Web Pages by Herman Drost :
http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/80814.aspx

How to Create an Effective Web Site Navigation Structure - Part 1 by Herman
Drost :
http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/80830.aspx

How to Create an Effective Navigation Structure for Your Site Part 2 by
Herman Drost :
http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/80831.aspx

How to Prepare Images for Your Web Site by Herman Drost :
http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/80829.aspx

How to Prepare Images for Your Web Site - Part 2 by Herman Drost:
http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/pages/80828.aspx

Look, we all know that Publisher is not the best tool for producing
websites, but given the scope of what you are trying to do in the limited
time you have, it is probably a good choice. With that said, it is probably
important that the kids know that Publisher is a DTP and is converting the
publication to HTML in the background, and that if they ever want to get
serious about web building they need to understand coding. One way to expose
them to the code is when you Publish to the Web, direct the output to a
folder on your hard drive where you can find it. I usually suggest the
Desktop. Then the kids can open the .htm files with NotePad to see the code.
Point out to them that a code editor such as Dreamweaver, Web Expression and
the ol' FrontPage allows the code to be directly edited and thus you do not
have the limitations of Publisher. At the same time by using Publisher you
have the opportunity to explain the difference between print medium and web
medium, and how you can do some things in each that you can't do in the
other...that it requires a different mindset and different design
techniques. In this respect I think Publisher can be an excellent tool for
you as it give you a logical way of showing the difference between the two
mediums.

I hope all this helps. As a teacher I am sure you are busy and I hope I
didn't overload you with too many links and too much information. Good luck
and if you have any questions, please post back.

DavidF
 
D

DavidF

Given that she has to choose between Word and Publisher, Publisher is the
better choice. Given that she has only a week, and 10 year olds, teaching
coding is unrealistic. If you do a web page preview, View > source the kids
can see the code. If they direct the output to the local computer, they can
open the .htm files in NotePad and see the code. I don't see either as a big
hoops to jump through. I also think that she can introduce people to coding,
and the difference between print media and web media with Publisher more
easily than if she was trying to use a web editor, and a big part of web
design IMHO has nothing to do with coding...it has to do with understanding
the different mediums, structuring a logical navigation system, etc. All
these things can be easily introduced with Publisher.

As I always try to say in this group, it all depends upon the scope and
goals of what the users is wanting to do. In this case I think Publisher
will be a great teaching tool...

DavidF
 

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