Outline levels

[DCBerk]

I work on a Mac G4 in Panther. I am a writer working on a large mss. with
multiple chapters, and am a long-time user of Word (fully upgraded).

I create my own templates and rely on DocMap to navigate. All headings are
assigned unique names (different from the "Normal default"), and specific
outline levels. (I prefer not to use any default styles.)

This has worked reasonably well until this morning, when the program
seems to have lost the capacity to remember the levels assigned. Everytime I
close and reopen the doc, all the headings revert to Level 1.

I have tried reassigning the levels in Outline View, in Layout View, and make
sure it is saved to the .dot. Nothing works.

I would appreciate suggestions for fixing this.

DC

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word]]

Hi DC:

I work on a Mac G4 in Panther. I am a writer working on a large mss. with
multiple chapters, and am a long-time user of Word (fully upgraded).

I create my own templates and rely on DocMap to navigate. All headings are
assigned unique names (different from the "Normal default"), and specific
outline levels. (I prefer not to use any default styles.)

There's your problem. Either use the default styles, or don't use Document
Map.

Document Map attempts to adjust the outline level on heading styles. It
will do this so often it eventually corrupts the document. The only cure
for that (and you are going to need to do this...) is to copy all but the
last paragraph mark into a new blank document.

If you use the built-in styles the outline levels are hard-coded and cannot
be changed, and therefore Document Map can't corrupt your document.

Cheers

This has worked reasonably well until this morning, when the program
seems to have lost the capacity to remember the levels assigned. Everytime I
close and reopen the doc, all the headings revert to Level 1.

I have tried reassigning the levels in Outline View, in Layout View, and make
sure it is saved to the .dot. Nothing works.

I would appreciate suggestions for fixing this.

DC

--

Please respond only to the newsgroup to preserve the thread.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[DCBerk]

Thanks John:

I knew heading levels were hard-coded, but I didn't know that it would try to
take control of headings I set up myself. It seems one can't escape Word's
desire to be in charge of everything!!! I reassigned all the characteristics I
need to the built-in headings, which corrected most of the problem; thank
you. One remains:

I avoid using any lists in Word because of how unstable they are. I created
new Styles called NumFirst and NumNext and assigned them to Body Level. I
insert the numbers manually. [Small price to pay so the program doesn't
keep trying to insist that it knows best what I want.] However, the numbers
are still showing up in DocMap as if they were a heading. Is there a trick for
this as well?

 

[DCBerk]

Hello, anybody there? Any help would be appreciated.

Still having a problem with the numbers -- DocMap still tries to turn them
into headings.

I did copy everything but the last paragraph mark into a new file.

And since I last posted, I reassigned all text with the styles I created,
"NumFirst", "NumNext", to "Body Style". However, when I reopened, some,
but not all of these are treated as headings in DocMap.

I have used "clear formatting" and reassigned Body, which corrects it until I
close and reopen the file. In AutoFormat as You Type I have turned off
everything under "Apply as You Type", turned off "Format beginning of list
item like the one before it." I made sure these were turned off in the Normal
template, as well as my customized ones.

I know this takes us into the territory of dealing with lists, which I
understand is very problematic -- I've fought this battle before, but clearly
haven't got it pinned down yet. I am writing technical material, that uses a
lot of numbers and bullets, and each section of numbering restarts at 1.

The style designations are important because I want to bring this material
into InDesign with the same ones in both programs. Word gives me a lot of
trouble, and if it weren't for the navigation offered by DocMap, I'd go back
to writing in FrameMaker -- even if it is only OS9 and has no equivalent, it is
rock solid stable.

Is there any indication of an improvement in lists in the new version of
Word?

Thanks for any help, DC

-----Original Message-----
Thanks John:

I knew heading levels were hard-coded, but I didn't know that it would try to
take control of headings I set up myself. It seems one can't escape Word's
desire to be in charge of everything!!! I reassigned all the characteristics I
need to the built-in headings, which corrected most of the problem; thank
you. One remains:

I avoid using any lists in Word because of how unstable they are. I created
new Styles called NumFirst and NumNext and assigned them to Body Level.

I

insert the numbers manually. [Small price to pay so the program doesn't
keep trying to insist that it knows best what I want.] However, the numbers
are still showing up in DocMap as if they were a heading. Is there a trick for
this as well?

-----Original Message-----
Hi DC:

This responds to article

"DCBerk" <[email protected]> on 14/4/04 6:18 AM:

headings
are

There's your problem. Either use the default styles, or don't use Document
Map.

Document Map attempts to adjust the outline level on heading styles. It
will do this so often it eventually corrupts the document. The only cure
for that (and you are going to need to do this...) is to copy all but the
last paragraph mark into a new blank document.

If you use the built-in styles the outline levels are hard-coded and cannot
be changed, and therefore Document Map can't corrupt your document.

Cheers



--

Please respond only to the newsgroup to preserve the thread.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]


.

.

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word]]

Document Map works ENTIRELY off the Outline Level property assigned to a
paragraph, independent of any styles applied.

So if you see a paragraph in Document Map, that's because it has a non-zero
(non-body-text) Outline Level. Your task, should you choose to accept it,
is to find out how the paragraph got that level. Being aware that Document
Map will sometimes "assign" levels.

Lists in Word 2001 and above are quite stable if you use them perfectly, but
using them perfectly is quite complex. Study the material at
www.word.mvps.org and Shauna Kelly's website. It took me a couple of years
to learn it all. I guess what I am saying is that Word's numbering is too
complicated to be used by most users, and I have been vigorously campaigning
to get it simplified.

The behaviour that you note, where Word attempts to take control and change
things, is in my mind the reason that using numbering is so complicated.
There are so many layers of dependent things happening, and the user is
aware of only some of them unless they really study the subject.

Some major improvements have been made in Word 2004. I got into trouble at
Mac Business Unit by beating up the product designers saying "What I want is
for Word to ALWAYS adopt the destination formatting when pasting. Always.
Completely remove any formatting from the source, and ALWAYS match the
destination."

For the longest time, they could not get their minds around the fact that
the reason I am pasting text from another document into mine is because I
DON'T like the way the other document is, and I want that text to become
PART of mine, not be a little stranded island of non-compliant formatting in
a sea of professional documentation.

A light-bulb must have gone on somewhere, because Word 2004 is hugely
improved in this area, but I am not allowed to say any more until the
product actually goes on sale.

Cheers

Thanks John:

I knew heading levels were hard-coded, but I didn't know that it would try to
take control of headings I set up myself. It seems one can't escape Word's
desire to be in charge of everything!!! I reassigned all the characteristics I
need to the built-in headings, which corrected most of the problem; thank
you. One remains:

I avoid using any lists in Word because of how unstable they are. I created
new Styles called NumFirst and NumNext and assigned them to Body Level. I
insert the numbers manually. [Small price to pay so the program doesn't
keep trying to insist that it knows best what I want.] However, the numbers
are still showing up in DocMap as if they were a heading. Is there a trick for
this as well?

-----Original Message-----
Hi DC:

This responds to article

There's your problem. Either use the default styles, or don't use Document
Map.

Document Map attempts to adjust the outline level on heading styles. It
will do this so often it eventually corrupts the document. The only cure
for that (and you are going to need to do this...) is to copy all but the
last paragraph mark into a new blank document.

If you use the built-in styles the outline levels are hard-coded and cannot
be changed, and therefore Document Map can't corrupt your document.

Cheers



--

Please respond only to the newsgroup to preserve the thread.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]


.

--

Please respond only to the newsgroup to preserve the thread.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]