Outline Numbering Issues

C

Candace Jones

I'm creating an outline numbering scheme for our firm for some docs that we
use very frequently. I can get the outline numbering customized and when I
type in new information it works great. BUT if i copy any information from
another document in...it totally messes up. I also wanted to add the
numbering to styles so it could be applied to existing docs but that isn't
working either.
 
E

Elliott Roper

Candace Jones said:
I'm creating an outline numbering scheme for our firm for some docs that we
use very frequently. I can get the outline numbering customized and when I
type in new information it works great. BUT if i copy any information from
another document in...it totally messes up. I also wanted to add the
numbering to styles so it could be applied to existing docs but that isn't
working either.

Do you know you landed in the Word for Macintosh newsgroup?

If yes, read on.
Word's numbering is a fragile flower. If you want to set up templates
robust enough for your average corporate pointy-haired boss, then you
have to invest a fair amount of effort in doing it the hard way.

That might involve hard-core field numbering.

That's because Word for Mac 2004 tried to dumb down the magic of
numbered lists. The pea-brained bullets and numbering menu item is a
disaster waiting to happen for anyone silly enough to paste text with
numbered styles into another document with numbered styles.

If you can train your users into paste unformatted, you might survive,
but that is a wing and a prayer operation.

Start here:
http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/Numbering/WordsNumberingExplained.htm
Its author, John McGhie, is a regular contributor to this list. He's
currently sorting out tech doc problems in a remote bauxite mine in
outback Australia, so hang about; you never know when he'll get bored
watching goannas mating.

You should also visit:
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html

After spending a few happy hours considering the implications of what
you will find in there, do come back with more detailed questions.

Whether Mac or dark side, you might find that asking your questions at
microsoft.public.word.numbering might be a good idea.
Expect to put some effort in. Whether it is rewarding or not will
depend on your monomania levels.
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Candace:

Ignore the expostulations of that whinging ex-pat. We threw him out of
Australia because of behaviour like that :)

No: Seriously, Elliott is correct: "Pasting" from external documents is a
real minefield.

You have customised your outline numbering the way you want it? Great.

There are three points that are utterly crucial:

1) Your numbering must have been defined as part of a set of STYLES. If
your numbering is not style-based, it will never be stable.

2) You must use the built-in styles for numbering: particularly the Heading
1 to Heading 9 series. If you don't, it will always be fragile.

3) You MUST paste UNFORMATED from other documents. If you don't, you will
paste in their numbering definitions on top of yours: and you've discovered
what happens next.

The built-in styles have special properties hard-coded to make them stable
when used with numbering.

Outline Numbering works off a List Template. The List Template is a strange
beast: it is a set of nine containers of numbering formatting. Each
container is designed to set the numbering formatting for one, and only one
style. When you look in the Format>Bullets and Numbering dialog, the
Outline Numbering tab shows you a selection of list templates (the seven
most-recently used in the document). There are potentially many more, but
the dialog can show you only seven.

A single List Template has global scope within the document. That means
that the list template that controls, say, the heading numbering, controls
all of the heading numbering in the entire document.

You can have up to about 200 different list templates all active in a single
document at the same time, but let's assume for now that you don't. Let's
assume that there is only ONE list template in control of all of your
heading numbering.

That List Template has nine levels, so the first thing you need to do is use
Shauna Kelly's instructions to "attach" nine different styles to that List
Template.

You must ensure that none of the nine styles has been used with any other
kind of numbering in that document. One of the traps for young players is
that people may try to associate more than one list template with a
particular style. It won't work, and the resulting mess is nasty :)

When you paste from another document, Word tries to being across both the
style, the list template, and the formatting. The resulting toxic soup
usually defies efforts to fix it.

To avoid this, paste in plain text only. That does not try to bring in
either the style or the number formatting. You can then correctly format
the pasted text using the styles you already have in the document.

Now, all you have to do is persuade your users to always use styles, and to
use the correct styles all the time. That can be a challenge...

Hope this helps


I'm creating an outline numbering scheme for our firm for some docs that we
use very frequently. I can get the outline numbering customized and when I
type in new information it works great. BUT if i copy any information from
another document in...it totally messes up. I also wanted to add the
numbering to styles so it could be applied to existing docs but that isn't
working either.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
 
C

Clive Huggan

On 13/7/07 9:58 PM, in article C2BD9EEA.53D5%[email protected], "John McGhie"

To avoid this, paste in plain text only.

<snip>

Dear Candace,

By way of further clarification, in support of john's comments: That is,
choose Edit menu => Paste Special => Unformatted Text.

(For frequent use, document professionals use a keyboard shortcut to do
this.)

Text pasted in this way will take on the characteristics of the paragraph
into which they are pasted, so make sure you are in an appropriate paragraph
(such as a blank paragraph styled in Body Text) when you do so.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from North America and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================
 

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