Palatino font issues in Word 2004

[4dmaze]

Hello, I have a Windows True Type font (Palatino Linotype, purchased
directly from Linotype) that I use in Word. It is the same as the one
that comes with Word, but I bought it to be able to use it in other
programs. I just installed Leopard and now this font is not working
properly in Word.

Two letters are bad: i and j. There is extra space inserted after the
letter i whether upper or lower case. There is no space around the
letter j: if I type 10 consecutive j's, I see only one.

It was working fine in Tiger. It works fine in Excel, PowerPoint, and
Mail (i.e., it displays correctly and prints correctly). The error
only occurs in Word and persists when I send the file to the printer,
and also persists if I print to PDF or Preview. The error is visible
in all layouts of Word.

I checked out 10-12 other fonts, including several other TTF fonts,
and they are all okay. I also tried moving the font from my user
Library to the System Library, and taking it out of the folder that it
came in, but the effect is the same.

I have the latest version of Word (11.3.8). I have updated my initial
install to 10.5.1. I do not have any special drivers loaded. My
machine is pretty much plain vanilla Apple. I even created a new user
and the problem still persists.

I have seen other reports of this exact problem but no solutions. If
anyone knows why this would happen I would appreciate any help.
Thanks. -Derryl

 

[John McGhie]

Yeah: That's a bug in OS 10.5.

In Leopard, incremental spacing is turned on all the time, you can't turn it
off.

Word 2004 responds to kerning if it is on.

We're waiting to see if Apple is going to issue a fix for it.

Cheers

Hello, I have a Windows True Type font (Palatino Linotype, purchased
directly from Linotype) that I use in Word. It is the same as the one
that comes with Word, but I bought it to be able to use it in other
programs. I just installed Leopard and now this font is not working
properly in Word.

Two letters are bad: i and j. There is extra space inserted after the
letter i whether upper or lower case. There is no space around the
letter j: if I type 10 consecutive j's, I see only one.

It was working fine in Tiger. It works fine in Excel, PowerPoint, and
Mail (i.e., it displays correctly and prints correctly). The error
only occurs in Word and persists when I send the file to the printer,
and also persists if I print to PDF or Preview. The error is visible
in all layouts of Word.

I checked out 10-12 other fonts, including several other TTF fonts,
and they are all okay. I also tried moving the font from my user
Library to the System Library, and taking it out of the folder that it
came in, but the effect is the same.

I have the latest version of Word (11.3.8). I have updated my initial
install to 10.5.1. I do not have any special drivers loaded. My
machine is pretty much plain vanilla Apple. I even created a new user
and the problem still persists.

I have seen other reports of this exact problem but no solutions. If
anyone knows why this would happen I would appreciate any help.
Thanks. -Derryl

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[4dmaze]

John, thanks for the response. FYI, I bought the Office 2008 and
installed it and I am having the same problem. Why would this
incremental spacing only affect one font, in this case Palatino
Linotype? Could the font have a defect in it? Thanks. -Derryl

 

[CyberTaz]

Hi Derryl -

John, thanks for the response. FYI, I bought the Office 2008 and
installed it and I am having the same problem. Why would this
incremental spacing only affect one font, in this case Palatino
Linotype? Could the font have a defect in it? Thanks. -Derryl

It *could* be a faulty font - have you tried using Font Book (or other font
utility) to validate it?

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[John McGhie]

Yeah, well I suppose the font could have the wrong spacing coded into it for
the ligatures. In which case, the font was always 'wrong' but Word could
not display the problem until Word 2008, because it did not respond to
ligature encoding.

I have some difficulty believing that Linotype, of all font foundries, would
have got it wrong, though. How old is that font?

Cheers

John, thanks for the response. FYI, I bought the Office 2008 and
installed it and I am having the same problem. Why would this
incremental spacing only affect one font, in this case Palatino
Linotype? Could the font have a defect in it? Thanks. -Derryl

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[4dmaze]

John, I just purchased the font from Linotype 7 months ago. The
problem happens in Word 2004 & 2008. I ran the font through Font
Doctor, it showed no anomalies. -Derryl

 

[CyberTaz]

Hi Derryl -

FWIW, I'm using Palatino in Word 2008 but still in Tiger & have no problem
with the font at all. Evidently it is a Leopard-associated anomaly, but
whether it's because of something MS did/didn't do is impossible to say. I
know, however, that Apple has been taking a good deal of criticism from a
number of developers for having arbitrarily changed course on a number of
things during the development of 10.5 - without even notification
after-the-fact.

Unfortunately playing the blame game doesn't help anyone:-}

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[John McGhie]

Yeah, I agree with Bob. I don't think there is anything wrong with the font
at all.

I think you have been hit by OS 10.5's "Ligatures are always on" bug, and
we're waiting for a patch to fix it.

Cheers

John, I just purchased the font from Linotype 7 months ago. The
problem happens in Word 2004 & 2008. I ran the font through Font
Doctor, it showed no anomalies. -Derryl

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Anastasia]

Hello,

I read through this thread as I was trying to fix the same issue with Minion Pro that I am using on Word 2004.

Is there anyway to quickly and efficiently fix the kerning after ligatures throughout my very long documents containing much text.

Here's what I tried that worked:

Manually fix the kerning between two characters than do an Edit / Replace All with the fixed vs.

But what that has led me to do is an excrutiating scan of every page in my documents (I have several) and catch each type of kerning adjustment between each type of character set.

Can I just turn off the Ligatures throughout the entire document?

Anastasia

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Anastasia:

Sorry, you changed the Subject, so I now can't find the rest of the thread.
(I must get a proper newsreader...)

There is only one way to turn off the ligatures at the moment: downgrade to
Word 2004 or OS 10.4.

Sorry: It's a bug, and they're working on it.

Cheers

Hello,

I read through this thread as I was trying to fix the same issue with Minion
Pro that I am using on Word 2004.

Is there anyway to quickly and efficiently fix the kerning after ligatures
throughout my very long documents containing much text.

Here's what I tried that worked:

Manually fix the kerning between two characters than do an Edit / Replace All
with the fixed vs.

But what that has led me to do is an excrutiating scan of every page in my
documents (I have several) and catch each type of kerning adjustment between
each type of character set.

Can I just turn off the Ligatures throughout the entire document?

Anastasia

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Bill Duncan]

It was strange reading Derryl's initial post since it is almost word-for-word identical to one that I posted on the Apple Discussions forum. They referred me here.

I just installed Office 2008, and the problem continues.

There may not be a good answer, but I don't see the logic in some of the responses above:
-- The problem clearly began with Leopard, but if it is ligature related, why are only some fonts involved?
-- If the problem is with the font (Palatino Linotype and Minion), then that suggests that the ligatures in these fonts were incorrectly coded all along, and any professional would have had to use manual ligatures. I find it hard to believe that Linotype would not have corrected the ligatures in one of its most popular fonts.
-- The only two letter that appear to be affected are I and J, and both upper case and lower case are affected in exactly the same way. This doesn't sound like a ligature problem.
-- If the problem is with Leopard and/or the font, why does it work just fine in PowerPoint and Excel?

Duncan

 

[Curt Laird]

Hi Bill,
Perhaps I can address some of your points/questions:

As was posted earlier, there is a problem in Leopard where OpenType fonts
always display their ligatures. This is true for both Office 2004 and 2008.
Apple is working on this and there should be a fix for it very soon.

Palatino Linotype and Minion are both OTF fonts that contains ligature
support.

PowerPoint and Excel don¹t support ligatures. Word is in the only Office
application that introduced this support, so this is the only app where you
should be seeing the problem.

I¹m working off memory here, but there were other issues with the Apple
ligature bug, such as problems with display and layout. It is possible that
there is another bug lurking in there. We should be verifying the fix real
soon and I¹ll have look at this during that testing.

Hope this helps!



Curt

It was strange reading Derryl's initial post since it is almost word-for-word
identical to one that I posted on the Apple Discussions forum. They referred
me here.

I just installed Office 2008, and the problem continues.

There may not be a good answer, but I don't see the logic in some of the
responses above:
-- The problem clearly began with Leopard, but if it is ligature related, why
are only some fonts involved?
-- If the problem is with the font (Palatino Linotype and Minion), then that
suggests that the ligatures in these fonts were incorrectly coded all along,
and any professional would have had to use manual ligatures. I find it hard to
believe that Linotype would not have corrected the ligatures in one of its
most popular fonts.
-- The only two letter that appear to be affected are I and J, and both upper
case and lower case are affected in exactly the same way. This doesn't sound
like a ligature problem.
-- If the problem is with Leopard and/or the font, why does it work just fine
in PowerPoint and Excel?

Duncan

--
Curt Laird
Software Development Engineer in Test
Microsoft MacBU - Word
(e-mail address removed) (remove ³ONLINE² for all replies)

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